George Morris on the SS list

[Denali6298]

@BK6756

I too wish everyone would read the actual FACTS about the safe sport process and the previous threads before making the same comments that have been rehashed ad nauseum.

Apparently asking people to educate themselves makes you a big meanie. We are supposed to be gentle broken records.

[BK6756]

@boosma47

Was the justice system utilized in this case, or in any of the other cases? That is my point. There are obvious weaknesses in the system, as in all systems, foremost of which is the political corruption that inevitably sets in when the ideal is blind justice. When you point out the unfairness to groups, you are correct, but it doesn’t make following the rule of law any less essential. Corrupt judges are always politically motivated regardless of their idealogy. I suspect SS is equally unfair in that it appears to favor the victim at the cost of the accused without seeking a balanced opportunity to seek truth. Is GHM guilty? We will never know for certain. We may have suspicions. But we, the public, have the right to know, a right only possible through a public trial. SS does not provide that. If a victim is willing to bring charges, let them be made before a judge and jury.

If you’ve followed any of the other threads you would see that the rules regarding criminal prosecution are very different than the rule regarding safe sport sanctioning. Criminal prosecution has a statute of limitation (varies depending on the state and the crime), Safe Sport does NOT.

[ladyj79]

@Sticky Situation

Let’s not pretend that a SafeSport ban isn’t going to have huge and devastating effects on a person’s life and livelihood … it’s more than just being excluded from the country club.

As it well should be, if the person in question is a predator and an ongoing threat… they’ve brought the consequences upon themself.

Please understand that following lifetime bans people have still been and are super successful and revered in this industry. George will have no shortage of people willing to give him their money and denounce his victims as lying whores and opportunists. It has already started.

[Denali6298]

Someone took a screen shot of Andrew’s vile post and put it on the Facebook thread. Thankfully the moderators deleted it here.

[Jealoushe]

@anon99446150

Admittedly haven’t read the entire thread but worth noting that this story has also hit the NYT and the reporter who broke it said on her twitter that she has been running an investigation separate from SafeSport and that there was a more in depth story to come.

Whats the twitter? Can you link please so I can follow along, that sounds super interesting.

In case people haven’t notice, the shoe has dropped. Epstein, Hollywood, everything is coming out in the open and its going to keep flowing. People are going to just have to learn to get over it when their heros are ousted as pervs and predators. A lot more coming down the pipes.

[Jealoushe]

@ladyj79

Please understand that following lifetime bans people have still been and are super successful and revered in this industry. George will have no shortage of people willing to give him their money and denounce his victims as lying whores and opportunists. It has already started.

Maybe he should just retire already.

[ladyj79]

@Jealoushe

Maybe he should just retire already.

No, George will fight this until he dies. And his ardent supporters will fund the whole thing. He won’t spend a penny.

[snaffle1987]

@rollingabout

And what happens if it’s a false allegation?

Innocent until proven guilty.

this isn’t a court system. He is banned from a private club/organization and business dealings involving said organization. You are not born with God given rights to be a member of any organization you so-choose. He is not banned from having an equine business or working with riders or owning horses. He is banned from any direct involvement with a private club. You can be kicked from any club at any time with no legal ramifications.

[541hunter]

@Jealoushe

Whats the twitter? Can you link please so I can follow along, that sounds super interesting.

https://mobile.twitter.com/SarahMaslinNir/status/1158552204866990081

here’s the post and her responses re: forthcoming story. I’ll be following closely, that’s for sure.

[Ghazzu]

@farmpony84

I never said anything about the victims being minors. I never saw anywher (in an article) that the victims were minors. I never defended the guy. Why are you putting words in my mouth?

I do think denali is getting a bit overexcited wrt you, but if you’re going to comment on a subject, one would think you’d at least have bothered to read the entry on the suspention list–where it specifically mentions “minor”, before you go on with the bothsides-ism.

[Sticky_Situation]

@ladyj79

Please understand that following lifetime bans people have still been and are super successful and revered in this industry. George will have no shortage of people willing to give him their money and denounce his victims as lying whores and opportunists. It has already started.

In the case of GM, that’s probably true. But I don’t know that the same would necessarily apply to a relative no-name who ended up with a lifetime ban.

And again, I’m fine with that. There should be severe consequences for sexual abusers. I just think referring to the lifetime ban as just an exclusion from a club really downplays the seriousness of it.

[Midge]

@Sticky Situation

Let’s not pretend that a SafeSport ban isn’t going to have huge and devastating effects on a person’s life and livelihood … it’s more than just being excluded from the country club.

As it well should be, if the person in question is a predator and an ongoing threat… they’ve brought the consequences upon themself.

Barney Ward, before he died, and Paul Valliere, to this day, have thriving businesses outside the USEF.

[Midge]

@Denali6298

Someone took a screen shot of Andrew’s vile post and put it on the Facebook thread. Thankfully the moderators deleted it here.

Which facebook thread?

[beowulf]

Frankly, it’s about time.

EVERYONE knows. I can’t imagine anyone who has been paying attention, is shocked to hear about this side of GM.

What was it someone said on one of the first SS threads about JW? “So the first big domino falls…”

Many, many more to be toppled… if SS can ban someone that most of the equestrian world previously thought was immune, imagine what else will come out of the woodwork. GM’s victim[s] stepping forward will likely pave the way for the rest of the industry’s victims to feel safe/have a platform in which to speak out against their abusers. After all, if a cultural icon can be toppled…

There’s many more out there, who also deserve SS bans.

[Denali6298]

@Midge

Which facebook thread?

The CoTH article on this.

[MyssMyst]

There’s so much vitriol on both sides. NONE of it should ever be directed to the victim. Ever. But I don’t think people who would like to see changes in Safesport are in the wrong, either. It’s NEW. Of course there are bugs that need to be ironed out. So stop with the “what about the victims/you don’t care about the children” the second someone has a concern or wants more information.

And if I see one more reference to PV or BW as examples that a ban won’t kill someone’s business? They were big names to start. People are concerned about those who aren’t big names as well. Sure, those two kept a thriving business after a ban. Not many others can.

[kmwines]

@specifiedcupcake

There’s a new documentary out called At the Heart of Gold regarding the gymnastics scandal and all the mishaps that allowed Nassar to abuse girls (sometimes with their parents IN THE ROOM) for decades.

I’d be interested in the reports/suspensions vs. membership totals as a statistic.

There’s a lot of argument about the reporting and investigation process, but in reality only some 45% of reports are investigated (they won’t investigate anonymous reports for example, because likelihood of it being malicious)-we never heard about that 55%- and only some 3% of total reports result in an actual suspension.

Common arguments being thrown around right now:

1. “It was so long ago!” - well yea but does that mean all the catholic boys, or victims of jackson/cosby/weinstein/nassar have any more or less valid protection?

2. “Standards and times were different!” - GM is pretty open about his bi/homo-sexuality. This literally could have gotten him lynched by the mob due to the attitudes of the time, as even consensual sex was illegal in most states until 1979 onwards. I imagine this played a role in making reporting both impossible and dangerous. Sex with minors also has a LOOOONG history of being illegal and morally objectionable. Straw man here.

3. “Why wasn’t it reported sooner to proper authorities?” - see above, see Larry Nassar… and also think about if you would report your boss or coach if you thought it would ruin a promising/hopeful career.

4. “But he never abused me!” - and my uncle never abused me, but it turns out he abused two of my brothers and my mother’s brother and who knows how many others. Cognitive dissonance sucks, but sometimes that’s just reality that otherwise good people can do bad things to other people.

5. “Constitutional rights!” - USEF is a private club and they are cleaning house to ensure higher standards of professional conduct within the industry.

5b. “Due Process! Innocent until proven guilty!” - again, private club, not looking at a prison sentence. Burden of proof is lower. Further, its SUPER common in industries with vulnerable people (hospitals, schools, churches, police etc) for someone accused of misconduct to be suspended until proven innocent in order to protect others. Can you imagine the sh*tstorm USEF would be in if someone else was molested while they took two years arbitrating with someone accused of pedophelia? Like… I would take them to the cleaners if my kid was victimized after someone had been openly accused of abusing kids.

6. “Safe Sport is a witch hunt” - see my comments on the low % of investigations that move forward from initial report, and even lower rate of punishment (again for those at the back, like 3% of total reports have resulted in suspension). Also, the term witch hunt is a joke because witches don’t exist- sexual predators do.

7. “They don’t release details. I need details to be convinced!” - sorry, but you’re not judge and jury and unless you plan on heading the USEF it’s really not your business. The privacy around names and allegations is meant to protect BOTH victim and accused. It is not our place to say “was that type of touching bad enough to bring down my idol”… part of Safe Sport’s charter is specifically to remove protections provided by notoriety in insular sport communities. Realistically, what would the average person do with these details anyway, other than call the victim ugly names? See Hilary Ridland’s post where she’s told to rot in hell for offering the details the public BEGGED FOR.

8. “SS is ruining careers” - plenty of people have lucrative horse careers outside the bounds of USEF

This is my favorite post in all these threads

[ladyj79]

It is quite clear that many many many in the horse community with still fight each other to shovel their money into George Morris’ ts pockets even after his withered corpse is cold and buried.

I’m gonna keep saying that.

Going forward, young professionals, don’t groom and assault minors because hopefully there aren’t many who will achieve this untouchable in the hearts and minds of our sick community status

[Jealoushe]

@541hunter

https://mobile.twitter.com/SarahMaslinNir/status/1158552204866990081

here’s the post and her responses re: forthcoming story. I’ll be following closely, that’s for sure.

Thanks, following

[Dressurfrau]

I’m not a fan of Robert Dover but here is what he shared on Dover’s World. I guess others in the equestrian community may pick a side as well.

“I’ve known George since I was a kid myself and actually met Robert Ross at Hunterdon in 1988 when Robert was 22. He was there for his second time for a week-long training session and George was kind enough to give him a room to stay in. Robert was and still is very handsome but asked if George was ever inappropriate with him either time he was there, he will tell you NEVER. George will say, like most men his or even my age, the 70’s especially were a crazy time and men and women, gay and straight, did crazy things. It was not called the “sexual revolution” for nothing. But retroactively attempting to judge one’s behavior in today’s world based on those times, what was for instance, going on in Studio 54 or Studio 1, is not only impossible but is unfair.
Now, rape is rape, regardless of the decade in which it happened and anyone found guilty of it should be charged with the crime. But something deemed “sexual abuse” today, brought by an accuser who may themselves be worthy of a stronger look into their behavior and who most likely would have to have been alone when this allegedly took place, put into the context of almost 50 years ago, is setting up a precedent for disaster. I hate that my friend, George, is going through this but it is even bigger than George and so in standing with George, I am standing up for the rights of us all and calling for Safe Sport to be overhauled. We need to protect our youth and all our athletes in sports but with a correct system using the rule of law and jurisprudence.”