I think adults coercing adults into anything is wrong, too.
IMO, there’s some of this behind kids getting sexually exploited. That’s not easily identified or stopped by SafeSport, by the USEF or even by the justice system. But I think it’s there.
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@DarkBayUnicorn , I think I love you!!
I still wonder why she isn’t banned or at the very least,called out by the mods. Seriously. In today’s atmosphere, that kind of talk is reminiscent of a certain world leader, and it’s despicable. It’s about 2 steps away from the crazies who want to shoot all of the ________(name your most hated group) that post on facebook.
And GM is still a creep and deserves whatever comes his way
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(1) Parents need to teach their children, from the time they’re old enough to understand, which actions by adults are normal and safe and which are never to be tolerated (red light!). …
(2) Do not dump your kids off at the barn at 0800 and expect the management to entertain them for the next 10-12 hours. …
(3) For the love of God, STOP sexualizing children. …
(4) Get rid of social media for impressionable youth entirely. …
(5) Raise your children with a sense of personal responsibility, which seems to have been replaced by “self esteem” and “activism.”
My objection to this is that it puts ALL the responsibility on the parents and the children, and no responsibility on the abusers or other complicit adults.
Of course, parents should educate their children about appropriate behavior, and of course, parents should supervise their minor children.
But don’t pretend that’s an antidote for abuse! Larry Nasser victimized his students with parents in the room, and George Morris was frequently referred to, not entirely facetiously, as “God” or “God of the hunters” and that gave him tremendous latitude to abuse.
FWIW, I think it is worthwhile to make a distinction between pedophiles, who are exclusively sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children, and the type of opportunistic sexual predator who preys on post pubescents, not because they are exclusively attracted to partners of that age; but because they are easy prey. The power imbalance of coach/student or employer/employee comes into play here as well.
Individuals in the latter case, which are the majority of abusers in the sports world, can control themselves if the social sanction for the behavior is severe enough. Just like the incidence of quid pro quo sexual harassment in the corporate work world has diminished significantly now that people believe they can and will lose their jobs/careers over it.
There is a long history, detailed in this thread; of there being little or NO social sanction to the abusers/predators of teen athletes. Instead, there is victim shaming and blaming, excuses, minimizing, discounting. Not only has there been no social sanction, people will form groups to defend you, raise money for your legal defense, loudly deny evidence and misrepresent the accusations.
What needs to change is that the social sanction for preying on teen athletes and abusing their trust needs to be swift, sure, significant and universal. It needs to hurt, personally and professionally; not excused with a hundred different rationalizations. The abuser needs to become a social pariah. That will change the behavior.
If you would like an example of this type of social change, look at drunk/impaired driving 50 years ago versus now. The compulsion to abuse alcohol hasn’t changed; but the willingness to get behind the wheel while impaired has - it is no longer socially acceptable and the sanction is severe enough it deters the behavior.
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I have wondered this for quite some time after reading this member’s posts about slavery (this is not the first time she has stated these appalling beliefs) and then an ongoing attack of nasty and mean posts about a forum member’s horse and business.
It’s a slippery slope…if the moderators allow statements such as these, which support slavery and sexual abuse of minors, they are creating an environment where basic decency and morals are ignored.
Sadly, because these type of statements are allowed (over the course of years with regard to the slavery comments), these forums have become another example of why the horse world needs measures (eg, Safe Sport) that create a professional and safe environment for everyone.
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Oh yes, how can we forget the brutal and repeat attacks on a very well loved stallion and owner.
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Liking this post wasn’t enough, so I reposted it. I wish the Mods would take note.
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I wonder if Viney is the lady who came into my work today and told my obviously very pregnant coworker “You know that every man you sleep with leaves his DNA inside of you for the rest of your life”
She always has weird and crazy things to say, she always calls them “tips” and they are always weird or inappropriate. I work at a coffee shop, and I’d rather her just shut her mouth than give her little “nuggets of wisdom” (as she has told us in the past) to herself!
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Based on some of the ignorance gleaned and believed from the interwebs feel the need to post that ,No you are not retaining the DNA of every partner.
Microchimerization is not fully understood , however confabulist web sites have certainly made hay with this science
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Specific rejoinders:
- As far as I can recall, I never said that slaves were better off in the US than in Africa. I would have no basis for making that statement. I have no idea what conditions for them were like in Africa before 1820. I have no idea what would have happened to the people captured into slavery by the African slave empires and sold to the Atlantic slavers. They might have been slaves in Africa or sold to the Middle East, and thus, still been slaves. Africans owned slaves. One “explorer” estimated that in NIger in 1790, there were 3 slaves for every free person. They might have been freed. Or without the Atlantic trade, the slave empires might have captured fewer people to sell. All these are possibilities. What I did say was that slaves in the US were better off than slaves in the rest of the Americas. We imported far fewer slaves than the Caribbean and Brazil. 12 million slaves were sent across the Atlantic. Of that number 350,000 came to the territory of the USA. I suppose one could argue that being able to survive was not necessarily better than not being able to survive, and continually importing new slaves from Africa was not necessarily worse than breeding one’s own. I happen to believe that not dying was better than dying, and that capturing new slaves to sell is worse than providing conditions that would allow people already in slavery reproduce. Your mileage may vary.
I still want to know if any of you have read the WPA interviews with ex-slaves.
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I could go on at length about “the poster and her stallion” but I won’t. I will only say that when one holds oneself out as a believer in the value of TBs in sport, it is hypocritical not to breed ones mares to TB stallions if they couldn’t be bred to “her stallion.”
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I DO believe that sex with prepubescent children is evil. I do not, however, believe that teenagers are children and do not think they should not be treated as children. Calling and treating them as children is positively harmful, and completely at odds with their status through most of human history. In this context, did any of you attackers bother to read the two articles I posted?
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The idea of Human rights is a Western concept with no basis except the agreement of people to recognize and protect ideals. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights is the child of the victors of WWII. It is, in many ways, cultural imperialism. And in a huge part of the non-Western World, it seems to be ignored in practice. Many of you believe that it is also ignored in the West.
Why do y’all think this is the best of all possible worlds? Why are you so sure you are right? Why are you so convinced that this age is better than any other?
For the love of everything, the nicest thing I can say is shut up before you dig your hole any deeper. Your views are abhorrent.
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What I did say was that slaves in the US were better off than slaves in the rest of the Americas.
You might just as well have said that death by drowning in treacle is preferable to death by drowning in a manure lagoon.
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Actually what you said (and what people rightfully objected to) is that slaves brought to the US were “lucky.”
And were you the person who suggested that the deserved to be slaves because they were the ones “dumb enough” to get caught by the slave traders?
Regarding the well-respected TB stallion and his owner / breeder, your thoughts seem to be both hypocritical and irrelevant since IIRC you have said you have exactly zero experience with breeding TBs yourself.
As for the fact that you think kids are fair game sexually once they hit puberty, and that a 13 or 14-year-old isn’t child…well I hope you aren’t a parent because God help your kids.
Yoh may think you are defending yourself but all you are doing is exposing more clearly to others just how vile and twisted your thinking is. COTH should not be a place that tolerates such disgusting sentiments.
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It’s so easy to judge from your keyboard, is it not? Yet a lot harder to accomplish what this person has done for thoroughbreds in sport, not to mention for horse sports and breeders in general. And she is one of the kindest people you’ll ever meet.
It sounds like plain ole jealousy on your part, and ignorance of sport horse breeding. This poster has certainly never done a thing to warrant your endless crusade of attacks on her, and you couldn’t wait to start again.
Please stop digging yourself in deeper.
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Why is that relevant? ‘I love my massa and he love me.’ is anecdote, not data.
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Pardon my interruption but I recall quite clearly that this was the poster’s evidence to support her deplorable position that African Americans are less intelligent then colonial whites today, because their ancestors were captured and enslaved. And yes, I recall the words “dumb enough”. I feel dirty writing that. Please forgive me but that’s what was written to the best of my memory. It was shocking.
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Slaves brought to the US were lucky compared to slaves in the Caribbean and Brazil. They were already slaves before they left Africa and were going to get sold somewhere. They were luckier if they got sold to the Middle East than if they got sold to the Americas.
I did not say kids who were 13 or 14 were fair game; I said that they had traditionally been considered fair game pretty much throughtout human history.
My thoughts on said stallion have to do, in part, with the fact which I just looked up, that he was never ranked in the top 100 eventing stallions in the world as far back as the WBFSH ranks stallions on their website, and they do include TB stallions. It only takes a couple of FEI top level progeny with points or a larger number of progeny with points competing at the lower FEI levels to be ranked. I went back as far as 2009.
Yes, I have. When scholars read the WPA interviews with formerly enslaved people they take into account several issues. For example, the time lapse between the end of slavery and the time the interviews were conducted in the twentieth century is an issue. The interviews record the memories of elderly people who are remembering their childhood or youth in slavery. Not only is the time lapse an issue, but elderly people in general tend to idealize their childhood. As well, the WPA interviews were done obviously before the Civil Rights movement and there was clearly an imbalance of power between interviewer, subject, and audience.
In no way do the WPA interviews support your claim that slavery was in any way a benevolent institution. That position is repugnant.
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Wow. I feel like we’ve gone back 100 years to read anything suggesting that slavery wasn’t a disgusting embarrassment in our history. Also suggesting that if 13-14 year olds are considering sexual activity, adults would be appropriate partners is disgusting. Have you read anything about what marrying off child brides does to their psyche? Have you read anything about the survivors of human trafficking? There is no good to come from children having sexual or romantic relationships with adults.
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Best description I ever read of vineyridge was that they were “straight out of an undiscovered Faulkner manuscript.” Which seems pretty accurate, based on several of the last few posts.
PS Viney: if you actually studied history as hard as you’d like us to believe, you’d know that marriageable age had a lot more to do with class & geographical location than puberty. 13 year olds have never been particularly well-equipped to bear children, as the death rates of mothers & children would tell you. Margaret Beaufort - Henry VII’s mother - is a classic example. The fact that’s her age at delivery was well-remarked upon (since she was THIRTEEN when she gave birth) gives a great indication it wasn’t ~normal~, even in the 15th century among upper classes in England.
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What does any of this ranting on about slavery or breeding TBs have to do with George Morris? The best thing to do with vineyridge is just ignore their comments instead of giving them a platform for their disgusting opinions.
To move back on topic, I understand (from someone who tried) that GM is not accepting phone calls or responding to messages, which is presenting quite a problem to people who have him scheduled for clinics or lectures. I can understand why he wouldn’t want to pick up the phone, but you would think he would at least have someone to speak for him.
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