Similar to today’s football pants.
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I was on the the ISWG page for about a day and a half a few weeks ago.
Some of them do lurk here. They refer to COTH posters as “cackling yentas”. My brief stint on ISWG was motivated by a desire to see what they were saying, but also to make trouble by calmly and rationally correcting their misinformation and their lapses in logic. Their response was to be outraged, call me names, and email the admin to get me banned.
Bonnie Navin has a thing about VXF111, not surprisingly.
If you want to express thoughts or information to the ISWG crowd, to my mind it is far, far more pleasant and probably more effective to post here and assume some of them are lurking here than to go on ISWG.
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I’m reminded that a few years ago Robert Dover was all for “modernising dressage attire”. Anyone else remember that? It may have been a piece in Practical Horseman. He felt that the sport would have a lot more crowd appeal if show participants were wearing spandex and sparklies similar to gymnastic outfits.
I could make any number of comments about that, but…I’m just not going there.
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I was not talking about adult women’s riding clothes. Hey, during the summer I will fight for the right to wear my cool Flow-Rise riding tights because nothing else is cool enough, along with my technical fabric, extremely revealing summer riding shirts.
If you are an adult woman ride naked if you want to (check your local laws first and keep on checking for skin cancer.) I really do not care AND I think adult women should have the right if they choose to do so. It gives the males of the species useful practice in controlling their instinctive reactions.
If a parent is willing to shadow their daughter or son while at the stable and/or riding–let the children wear what they want as long as the parent can keep an eagle eye on them at all times (warning–a lot of kids really resent that level of constant supervision.)
Going back to the old timey riding clothes was just a suggestion. It was not received favorably. Shrug.
But I do suggest that we DO SOMETHING about the problem rather than mouth platitudes. Sure, in an ideal world all men and women would be able to control themselves around children, no matter how the children dress, at all times and in all places, including total privacy. We do not live in that ideal world, unfortunately.
As an added note I have asked male heterosexual men who ride horses why they think that men who ride hunt seat/ dressage/3-day are total sissies. It came down to the modern riding clothes, clothes that these men who rode Western or Saddle Seat would not be caught dead in because they fear attracting unwanted attention from a certain minority of our population.
Personally I think that men who gallop madly cross-country jumping absolutely weird jumps are NOT wimps, I think they are brave men and suitable role models for boys as long as they behave themselves. Of course I think that the women in these sports are equally as brave, I am not slighting women riders!
The verbiage below was posted on the “SafeSport Overhaul” Facebook page today. I was somewhat puzzled by it. It seems to indicate that SafeSport currently has a retired FBI investigator investigating GM. But I thought SafeSport’s investigation was completed before they issue a sanction?? At least that’s what the flowchart shows.
A SATURDAY MORNING OBSERVATION.
IF YOU GET A CALL FROM THIS MAN OR ANYONE ELSE “INVESTIGATING” anyone…at the opening of the conversation please tell him you want a copy of his notes of your conversation!!! Then at the end of your time with him PLEASE remind him YOU WANT HIS NOTES…YOU ARE ENTITLED TO THEM!!! Don’t get caught off guard!!
I was on the phone for an hour and a half (or more) with the retired FBI guy who is investigating George yesterday. WE WILL NOT DEBATE THE GEORGE SITUATION HERE!!!
HOWEVER, it was definitely interesting and enlightening to get first hand knowledge of these ‘investigations’…
He is pleasant (or was to me at least) interested in the case, takes detailed notes and comes back to them as he needed…but remember…he clearly has an agenda AND A JOB ASSIGNMENT!.
I BELIEVE he (or another 'investigator) has been fed some amazingly erroneous information. He also talked about the SS Center and their assignments and jobs.
MY TAKE AWAY…we have a lot of work to so but there might be cracks in the woodwork!!!
JUST MY OPINION!!
PSSSS…no discussing any specific case or people please.
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This is all information we’re getting secondhand and we have no way of knowing if it’s true
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Just because one investigation is complete, it does not mean other investigations aren’t underway
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GM may be raising factual issues on appeal that entitle SS to do additional investigation to rebut those issues
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Maybe they are seeking more information if an appeal has been filed?
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How dumb are they to take someones word on the phone that they are an investigator from any organization?
Think about it. They could be a news reporter. Not the brightest star in the sky are they? 
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All good points.
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Maybe C4 can make some chastity belts with interchangeable buckles (eyeroll)
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SafeSport had completed the investigation into GM. However, it would not be surprising to me if one or more new reporters came forward after the news of the ban. If SafeSport already has enough on GM to warrant a ban, I would think that it is easier for other victims to come forward. However many reporters they had in the initial investigation, it is extremely likely that there were other victims who had not yet reported.
There was a complaint from Dover or somebody that SafeSport was delaying GM’s appeal. Once in the appeal process, either side can ask for a continuance, and it would make sense for SafeSport to request a continuance while it investigates new reports.
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I doubt seriously that SS would have someone investigate GM and identify themselves as a “retired FBI guy” on the phone and question anyone. How do they know the person they are talking to is who they say they are? How is that person supposed to know the “retired FBI guy” is who he says he is. Is the call recorded?
Whether the whole thing is made up, or the writer got some sort of bogus phone call, this is not the way a real investigation is conducted.
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My son and daughter both rowed in high school. The rule was two deep adult supervision. No junior rower was allowed to be alone with a coach if there was not another adult at least in the building. That protects the coach as well as the rower.
One of the clubs didn’t follow that practice. Guess what. Male coach had an inappropriate relationship with a female rower on his team which started when she was a junior.
Yes, it requires more planning to accomodate, but it’s worth while. I once brought my daughter to a coaching session with a young male coach who told me I needed to stay as he was the only one there. Made sense to me.
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There is nothing sexual about horse riding clothes. No one, man woman or child should have to worry that their chosen, appropriate attire for the sport (or any attire) is too much for people to control themselves. In 2019. In the US. For the love of god we are further than that.
Tight clothes- yet somehow my husband and thousands of other red blooded heterosexual males do not feel the uncontrollable desire to molest women or children. Amazing.
The comment about sissy clothes and unwanted attention that keep heterosexual men away is just—— ludicrous.
You must be pen pen pals with Viney.
Attitudes like this are what is wrong wrong with society.
It isn’t what people wear, how they look or how they act that entices people to be abusers. It is the abusers fault. Full stop. End of story.
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@Jackie Cochran The main issues that I have with your suggestion is that 1) it places the FULL onus on the child to protect themselves (to make it clear - it is NEVER the survivor’s fault. It is the fault of the abuser & enabler(s) and 2) it plays into the false narrative that dressing a certain way causes OR prevents abuse. Like I stated earlier, abuse is not about sex - it’s about power. Look at all the sex abuse scandals in the Catholic Church - do you really think that “dressing more modestly” would have stopped those children and teens from being molested by their priests? As @Bogie stated, practices such as two deep adult supervision and keeping interactions observable & interruptible is a much more effective policy.
@YankeeDuchess I agree with your theories. As I’ve stated previously, there were several complaints against GM that led to his ban. IIRC GM was not given a public temporary suspension prior to his ban. It’s very common for more complaints to roll in once someone’s name is published in the database. I wouldn’t be surprised if more people came forward to SafeSport and/or if the Center asked for a continuance of the appeal.
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For victims reading this:
It is not your fault.
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Many years ago, I boarded my horse at a barn where the front field that I often rode in bordered a busy commuter road. I got just as many lewd comments yelled at me in the winter when I was bundled up so that you couldn’t tell whether I was a man or woman, young or old, as I did in the summer when I had breeches and a polo shirt on.
Sexual assault is not about sexual desire - it’s about power. That’s why what you’re wearing doesn’t matter. And once again - women (or children) are not the gatekeepers of men’s out-of-control desires. Blame the victim is absolutely an abuser technique. “Why did you make me hit you?” is a classic refrain.
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Wait, what? Men should be “lauded” for managing to control themselves around teenagers in tight pants?
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As a dressage rider, I’m all for updating competition wear. I think it’s tough to get taken seriously as athletes when we’re dressed like butlers. As the top hats slowly get replaced by helmets (too slowly in Europe) it’s better, but I’d prefer to see the white breeches and tails reserved for freestyles if they have to stay, and more athletic attire allowed in other classes. Sparkly leotards? Not so much lol.
And as a long-time fan of Robert I’ve been really disappointed not only in his stance regarding GM, but in his lack of engagement / discussion with those who disagree with him. Robert has never been one to shy away from sharing his opinions, be they about judging, riding, politics, you name it. And one of the things I’ve always appreciated is how willing he is to debate with people on his social media channels - thoughtfully and respectfully even with those who strongly disagree with him.
His reputation is really on the line here - particularly after that weird fundraiser he started in support of George which then went poof. He did seem to back down from “George is 100% innocent.” to “George’s right to due process has been violated.” But now there is so much more information about the length and depth of the investigation, as well as the process by which George was invited to respond to the accusations, that argumrnt had no merit either. I keep expecting (hoping) to see Robert and some of the other BNT supporters come back to say “Oops, we jumped the gun,” but maybe I’m overly optimistic.
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Perhaps additional victims have filed complaints and new investigations into GM are underway?
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