Bold mine.
‘Thank you, thank you, thank you, @skydy for saying what needed to be said. He has gone too far. Enough is enough.
While we do have freedom of speech in this country, there is absolutely no prohibition against using their words against them. Time to fight back?
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I think everyone should spell his name out instead of using initials. While people here know who you mean, it won’t show up in a search. Using full names will help spread the word on his views, which should be totally repugnant to the majority of the population. I am appalled at his words.
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Good point. My concern has been moderators and using full names…
BTW, @cindy859, I love your profile photo. I’m a lifelong GSD owner/fan.ðŸ˜
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I think this is also important in general for clarity. GM is pretty widely understood as George Morris, especially on a thread where his name is in the title, but any other initials might end up belonging to someone else who might play a role in events. As is best practice in any written communication, I think it would be wise define your initials in the beginning of every post if you want to use them.
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I’ve also been careful about using full names over and over because of the moderators, and because I don’t mean to come across as engaging in online bullying.
I want to respect the rules of these forums, and make sure I do not play a part in getting important threads closed.
So I have tried to walk a fine line and after someone has been named early on… revert to using initials. If anyone chooses differently though… I get it. I really do. And if anyone is unsure about who is being discussed… just ask openly. No worries.
I also want to state for the record so that everyone is CRYSTAL CLEAR… I am only copying and pasting and sharing comments these folks have they, themselves made on Social media that are 100% public. I am not sharing comments made in private groups, or that are only visible to friends. Nor am I sharing comments made in the course of private conversations. Nor am I sharing “heresay.” :uhoh::lol::rolleyes: Nope… just the things they themselves are OPENLY SAYING. Using their own first and last names in public posts.
I am also trying to be clear that when my posts are a matter of me sharing my own OPINION on these comments… it’s my OPINION. Based on my personal experiences, and things I have read and studied and have knowledge about. If anyone reading these threads is ever unclear about stuff like that… and if people are being accused of a crime or if posters like myself are simply sharing an opinion… just speak up and ask. I think that’s a healthy way to go about these discussions, and make sure we are all being fair.
For the record though, I am of the opinion that Duncan does speak like people who do have an issue with child sexual exploitation. His exact arguments are exactly the sort of thing NAMBLA members do say to justify situations where an 11 year old boy has sexual inter purse with a grown man.
A situation such as that is NOT about homosexuality. It is about pedophilia and it is absolutely child abuse. Who the victim is and who the abuser is - that’s not vague or up for debate in our legal system, nor when it comes to the opinions of pediatricians and psychologists.
His statement that the grown man in this situation was horrified by his own actions? And the gay friend of Duncan’s who according to the comment was the 11 year old boy in that story and apparently doesn’t characterize this activity as child abuse? IT’S IRRELEVANT. It was abuse. Who even knows if the story is true. Or perhaps… the person saying right now that they were fine with it and ok when they were 11 has buried their trauma and is still coming to terms with it, and in another ten years will feel differently and describe the whole this as sexual exploitation and abuse and say that they were damaged and it took YEARS AND YEARS to work through that damage.
That is a VERY COMMON dynamic when it comes to people working through their understanding of their own experiences as a child and having been sexually abused and exploited.
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Irrelevant, but I second this! Beautiful dog! I learned to walk holding onto a GSD 
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I totally understand the complications that brushing this sort of thing under the rug does to a child. I was repeatedly raped as a 9 year old, by a family friend. My brother’s friend’s father, in fact. I didn’t come forward for a good 6 months, when my mom caught me crying and I told her I was afraid I was pregnant (I had no idea about periods, or how one actually got pregnant, i.e. I was incapable of being pregnant).
I told my mother, who told my father, and then it all just went hush hush. I was told not to bring it up again. I was told it didn’t happen. I was told I had an overactive imagination. I was never taken to see a doctor. I was basically called a liar by those that were supposed to love and protect me. So, as a then 10 year old, I didn’t bring it up again. When my parents sent me back to the abuser’s household for babysitting so they could go out on dates, I went. Quietly. It happened again. Eventually, that family moved away. I moved on into physically and emotionally abusive relationships through my teens and through my first really serious relationship (whom I had my first two children with). It took years of counseling to realize that what happened was NOT OKAY. And to realize that the relationships I was involving myself in were unhealthy and quite damaging to me. Luckily, I escaped my last abuser alive (by some miracle), went to years of counseling (we are talking 6 years of counseling here, twice a week most weeks), and I am now MOSTLY past most of my issues. I still have PTSD that rears it’s ugly head at times. I have been in a loving, healthy marriage for the past 10 years and my past still affects me on occasion.
I am absolutely adamant that God forbid any of my children ever come to me and tell me anyone has violated them, I will believe them. Heads will roll, my children will go to counseling, and those that dared touch or hurt my child will be held accountable to the full extent of the law. I have had discussions with all of my children on what is not acceptable behavior. No one is to touch them or ask to see their privates, show them their privates, etc. Even my 5 year old knows that only the dr (with mommy present), or mommy are EVER allowed to see her privates etc. I want my children to know what is healthy and what is not. What is acceptable and what is not. I don’t ever make my children hug relatives, if they don’t want a hug and want to decline the hug, they shouldn’t have to. I think a lot of times we cross that boundary “Give your aunt a hug. She wants a kiss!” and while innocent, again gives a message to our children that they should be allowed to be told what they should allow or not allow. Their body is their body, and they should not be forced to do anything even if it is to hug a relative at a holiday get together, if they do not wish to.
Some of the things that people are trying to say were acceptable back then, were not, and are not, acceptable, even today. Children cannot consent. And someone’s sexuality should not even play part in that discussion. Children are children. We MUST protect them. It would break my heart for any of my children to have to go through what I did. We need to look out for one another’s children as well. If something looks off, or your intuition says something isn’t right, report it. Better to be safe, than sorry.
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@WildLittleWren - thank you for sharing. Your choice to share your sad deeply personal experience, has comforted me, and helped validate exactly what I was trying to share.
There is a lot of healing to be had by trying to give our kids the sort of childhood and unconditional love and support they deserve. All kids deserve it. They all only get one childhood. It’s precious.
I also have a visceral reaction whenever extended family or friends push for either of my kids to hug them, or say hello when they are feeling shy, etc. My kids have always been told it is perfectly fine to just keep close to me, or hang back if they are uncomfortable. They could always whisper in my ear or grab my hand when they were younger and this sort of thing happened, and I always happily did the talking for them and freely gave them permission to stay away from the adult who had made them feel nervous. My kids are a bit older now, and do fine when meeting people they don’t know and have zero issues being polite, looking folks in the eye and extending a hand for a handshake when introducing themselves… but they don’t hug older adults they don’t know well ever… nor kiss distant cousins on the cheek or snuggle up to their long lost great uncle so and so just because he asks them to at a family reunion. And they know if they are ever uncomfortable when dealing with an adult or anyone, their dad or I am always willing to step in and support them.
I’ve gotten some flack from extended family about this early on from my husband’s relatives. Especially when my kids were toddlers and kindergartners and we attended a few different family events. A few judgemental comments have been directed towards me about not teaching the kids to be more polite, and how “sad” it is that I don’t encourage them to have more close and loving relationships with their cousins, etc etc. It’s always amazing to me how utterly obtuse and clueless some people can be :rolleyes::sigh:
Hopefully if someone else is reading along and has a friend or family member with a tendency to be a little standoffish, and children who are a little shy… they will read our stories and learn from them, and approach others with in a more accepting and respectful manner in the future. You just don’t know what you don’t know about other people, and why they might be a bit standoffish or shy.
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One thing that really irritates me are people who tell others who have been sexually or physically assaulted to just “get over it already”. Just because something happened many years ago does not mean it still does not affect you for the rest of your life. In fact, when something like this happens to you at a young age, your brain is actually wired differently. You think differently, you perceive things differently.
I will say, I have taken a lot of my experiences as a victim of not just sexual assault but domestic battery and put it to good use. I routinely speak at a local women’s domestic violence shelter during their group women’s support meetings. This is the same group who helped me through counseling get out of the dangerous, abusive relationship I was in, alive. I try to give back. I try to show these women affected that there is LIFE AFTER. And that life can be great and fantastic and you can achieve great things. I go to all their 5k runs, and I have even made some lifelong friends along the way. I try to give back. But, I am still a victim. I always will be. It’s what you do after the fact that determines what, if any, good can come out of these situations. I try to encourage others. It has also helped me heal. I am very passionate about both the subjects of sexual abuse and physical/domestic abuse, and try to help where I can. To me, while yes I am a victim, I am also a survivor. But people who tell you to get over it already, really haven’t lived through it, and don’t understand the ways it changes a person.
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The fact that you were quoting a publicly shared statement is the reason I feel comfortable using Duncan McIntosh’s full name. When people put their views out in public, they own them, and I am entitled to publicly disagree.
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Me too!
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I just want to say that I use initials for convenience but from here on out I will use full names.
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“My friend’s daughter had a “visit from the friend”, at 10 years old, and he is incredibly aware and strategic on the subject.”
Everything Duncan McIntosh has said disturbs me greatly. But there is something about this particular line that makes my skin crawl more than the others. I don’t even have words for this. Why would ANYONE say this?
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@skydy cue up The Beatles (Here Comes The Sun) and The Fifth Dimension (Let The Sunshine In). Thanks!
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because he’s wore the thin veneer of civility for years and now it’s worn off.
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@skydy - Thanks for being unequivocal, and firm and standing with those of us who do want a safer environment and healthier experience for kids in our sport.
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I read that several times too… and just can’t quite deal with what that comment potentially means.
Duncan has been steadfast in his position hat his friend, Rob Gage shouldn’t have been banned. However… he isn’t denied that Rob had sexual interactions with underage girls. He openly acknowledges it. In one comment, he admits that he specifically knew who one of Robs accusers was, and says that she “wasn’t” a victim.
I read the comment and interpreted it to mean that since the minor girl seemed to agree to the sexual relationship with the adult male, Gage, at the time… Duncan has decided she isn’t a victim.
Other comments on the Rob Gage thread indicates there were victims in his case as young as 12. And there are indications that there was an ongoing criminal investigation into his case, medicating that there were RECENT victims.
But Duncan is steadfast that Gage wasn’t a threat to anyone, and he shouldn’t have been banned.
So this bizarre comment about his friend’s 10 year old daughter… and how “aware” the friend s and how the friend is talking about the little girl’s private issues with respect to her development with Duncan?
Yeah. It’s cringe worthy and awful and concerning.
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If you see something, say something. From what I see, I’ll say this looks like a train wreck in progress. I can’t read the tiny type on the letter from Athletes for Equity in Sport letter, so not sure which point number it is, but maybe they also see this coming down the pike and are willing to throw Duncan McIntosh under the bus as an example of prioritizing more recent offenses over older ones. It would kill two birds with one stone. It absolutely shows that they are against pedophilia and would help obscure their origin as an offshoot of the I stand with George (ISWG) movement meant to protect their pedophile of choice. I admit to using “pedophile” as an umbrella term here because I don’t remember the correct word for the age range for Mr. Morris’ underage group of choice.
No.Wait. That is too strategic and not reactionary enough. Must not be their plan.
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Thank you for showing me what is being said publicly by these people.
I am not a member of facebook, or twitter etc… so I don’t know what is shared there.
I appreciate that you have brought the anti-Safe Sport people’s words to light. Though they range from ignorant to horrific and reading them is not a pleasure, they need to be read and I would never have seen them otherwise.
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I believe it is spelled.MacIntosh.
