I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts to get people my age (I’m 20, so around 16 to 24 years old) interested in giving CDE and Carriage Driving a shot.
The only reason I got into it was because I was diagnosed with a disease that doesn’t allow me to ride. So, I’m a weird case. I also lucked into finding some good mentors who want me to succeed.
I’ve tried thinking of ways to promote CDE to a younger crowd but I’ve fallen short. Any one have any ideas?
I wasn’t sure what you actually meant??? To me what you said just doesn’t seem congruent at all??
Are you actually looking for ideas to promote things? If so, then what precisely are you seeking to promote???
or
Are you looking for a mentor and to get started???
If the former then there’s a whole bunch of youngsters driving and over here in the UK we have the Duke of Edinburgh Award Scheme which specifically has carriage driving as an option for youngsters wanting to achieve awards. Then there’s the Junior Whip competitions held through the BDS and HDTA. Furthermore we do a lot of training via the pony clubs. I know there’s the equivalents of the aforementioned in the USA. We also have Driving for the Disabled and once again with competition etc.
I’d say to start with the American Driving Society if you’ve got something you want to promote.
If the latter then you need to start with finding a good coach and once again the ADS is probably the best place to start. You would also be advised to get in touch with junior competitors and on this board we have Sam who I’m sure would be able to tell you who and where.
I am not an expert on this–just can tell you what I see here in Florida. We have the Florida Whips which runs a youth program to encourage young drivers. We have two very talented young ladies rising --Sami Orem obviously and Jan Jan Hamilton. At the Fall Fling this past weekend, there was another young lady from the Tampa area who is maybe 10.
There are others I am not so familar with.
This sport takes money I think that is why you see mostly more mature folks.
The ADS does have a youth program, I am not real familiar with how it works.
I hear ya
The ADS is making some effort to start youth programs but we’re falling far short in the “new blood” category here in the U.S. I hadn’t realized that might not be the case world-wide so the first thing to do I think would be to look at what countries who are successfully attracting youth to driving are doing. Is it an awards program? Better access? Sponsorship? More education about driving when young? A different outlook on “tradition” and “elegance” as being cool rather than outdated? We need to understand the underlying reasons for their success and see if they are applicable here in the States.
I know for me as a young adult riding was the obvious choice because that’s what everyone I knew did with their horses. There were no competitions out there in the public eye to inspire interest, no classes at the local saddleclub or 4-H shows, no reason at all to take it up. All my friends had their own horses so the idea of taking a friend along for a drive wouldn’t have occurred to me. I was a junior, my parent would have had to go with me in the other seat anyway! No way would I have been allowed to drive by myself or out with another teenage friend any more than I would have in a car. But riding? Sure! We could both hop on our horses and trot or gallop along side by side having a wonderful time. Another factor is that a driving horse and his equipment takes up much more space. Not only do you have to store the cart and harness somewhere and be able to load said cart in your pickup truck but you can’t drive a horse in the same small backyard ring you could ride him in and you can’t safely take a large horse cart down the same urban roads you can ride on. So driving for a junior is expensive, requires a lot of financial and physical support from your parents, isn’t “normal” (making it either very cool or very on-the-fringe/isolating for a teenager), and isn’t a particularly social sport to engage in with other equestrians your own age. Most drivers in the U.S. are older so you have to be mature enough to accept being the only junior present. Not everyone enjoys that! :lol:
On the positive side though once someone gets hooked on the sport they can often overcome the physical or financial limitations and the social one usually solves itself as they drag friends and family into their new addiction. 
So how do we get them hooked? Some of this is beginning to solve itself as driving becomes more popular. My local 4-H shows are now offering a driving division and from what I understand it’s becoming quite popular as are the new ridden dressage and jumper divisions. That means not only is it out there for people to see and become interested in but there are medal programs and year-end awards for it, both of which are attractive to competitive younger drivers. I know the one thing that drove me nuts as I got into CDE was that there were no point programs, no year-end awards, no medal competitions, nothing except a single ribbon from each competition to show how you were doing against other drivers of a similar level across the country. Sure if you’re aiming for international competition there’s the National and World Championships, but what about those of us on the wrong coast, without the cash, or with the wrong sized horse for FEI trials? Just because we aren’t able to go to the top doesn’t mean we aren’t competitive! And heck, what about we twenty-somethings who are too old for junior programs but still have all the ambition bred into us by having been raised in that sort of system? Can’t there be award programs for adults too?
(Sorry, controlling the rant now. 
)
I think the single biggest lure for new drivers of any age is going to be marketing. Get the sport of carriage driving OUT THERE in the breed and riding discipline magazines, make lists of resources easy to find with those ads, and encourage people to find a mentor and try it out with a borrowed driving horse. Show them how much fun carriage driving can be (those pulse-pounding shots of horses flying through the water are always good for that) and emphasize the camraderie and sportsmanship of it. Show everything from minis to drafts competing and show that driving is for everyone whether you’re into speed or picnic drives. Make it interesting, make it accessible, and then keep their interest with opportunities to drive socially and award programs for all levels and sorts of drivers. I think the ADS is on the right track with their new Recreational Driving programs but we are appealing only to those who already have carriage horses, not emphasizing the sport to those who haven’t tried it at all. Start marketing!
Leia
I am going with folks willing to teach young people is an issue. My daughter wants to learn to drive. A bunch of names were given to us. I contacted all of them. Only one even called back (weeks later…so I am not being impatient here) and the one that called back said she does not like teaching kids. I tried the local (Brandywine) driving association through their website. No answer there either.
Sometimes, it’s just a “so what!” sort of answer.
I hear people say, “We have to get young people involved, they’re the XYZ’s sports future”. While they’re kids, no they’re not. It’s parents who quite often push their kids into riding. Mom rode and showed and the daughter “LUVS” horses.
There are few kids in antique cars, croquet, ocean racing etc. Few adults competing in horse vaulting, uneven parralel bars or floor exercises with a ribbon on a stick…again, so what?
Driving can be expensive, bulky to store, not very social (you can go for a ride with your 3 friends on the trail, you’re in fields or on the road in a cart).
Driving is more work than riding…which can be a problem with the video-addicted/texting/“you owe me” attitudes so common now. Too many of these kids act as if they’re doing someone a favour by showing up. I taught riding to lots of kids, I saw the attitudes change, the laziness and treating the horse as just another box to check off on the “fun things I do from 2:00-2:45” on Wednesdays. No passion, just attitude.
If kids are interested in horses, great for them. If they’re interested in driving, great for them. Driving will survive nicely without them. Adults mostly drive…so what? Kids eventually become adults and will go into different challenges and sports…driving will be one of these sports.
Not everything needs to bow at the “child altar”. They are driving’s future…in the future.
Trakhaner hit the nail on the head. I got into driving later in life and one of the things I first noticed and really liked was that there were no kids driving or being catered to by their horseshow moms and dads. It was an older crowd that did not usually bring younger kids and had a great camraderie (sp?). And I taught school for 34 years and showed riding in open and breed shows for 35! I feel kids should be learning about horses by riding (if possible) and saving the driving for when they are mature adults. 
Plus, driving is much more dangerous and results can be much more catastrophic to others in the vicinity than riding. IMHO
We aren’t talking kids, we’re talking young adults between 16-24 according to the original poster. And I can’t help but think there’s a big difference between pushing an unwilling child into a sport they really aren’t interested in and attempting to interest those who simply aren’t aware it’s an option. Believe it or not, not all of us young folks are obnoxious, self-entitled, text-messaging idiots. :rolleyes: (I’ll admit to being ashamed by the number who ARE, but it’s still not all of us!) Older drivers are always going to be the majority in this sport and as Trakehner said, that’s absolutely fine. But there’s still nothing wrong with attracting new talent of any age. A good driver is a good driver and it would be a shame to miss out on someone who could be a top trainer in another ten years because they’re “too young” and you don’t want to be bothered with bringing them along. :no: If you don’t want to deal with younger drivers, fine, you don’t have to. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be advertising our sport.
Leia
The OP said “younger crowd”. She is in the 16 to 24 crowd, my kid is younger. I can say that not only did I not push my kid into driving…I am driving clueless. We ride. I CAN say I pushed my kid into 4H. She always liked horses and all other animals and rode a little but never really got into the riding and showing thing…mostly only liked trail riding on occasion. The whole reason I pushed her into 4H is because I was concerned about the crowd of kids she fell in with at school (irresponsible families and kids on the whole) and I certainly HOPED that by pushing her towards horsey kids she would meet new and more responsible friends since they were ones taking care of horses. It did work. Just not quite as intended. Half the kids in 4H ride English like us, half ride Western. I WAS prepared for the fact that she might say take up barrel racing. Well she met a new best friend whom we love…and that kid has driving ponies. Kiddo has never been super interested in riding but seems to be very taken with her new friends driving interest. So since I am driving clueless the unsuccessful search has begun. Her friend HAS volunteered to help her learn which is great…but I do feel that we should also have an adult teacher in the picture here. (The kid friend was taught by her Amish neighbor on his buggy and plow horses…so no real trainer there to go to). So far no luck…so the local kid and her ponies it is at present!! I have nto heard anyone say that there is a kid alter to bow to here…I am just looking for someone to teach a kid who really wants to learn. The attitueds Trakenher mentions are rampant in kids of any age…not just driving. It certainly is a problem among the kids we try an hire for summer farm help. We have The Perfect Job for the kid that wants it: get paid adult wages, no taxes taken out/ in cash, make your own hours working with well trained horses as long as X work gets done. In the past 4 years we have had 2 SUPER hardworking kids, one we fired for being a bum and one that is OK but not that inspired (does the minimum necessary and not an ounce more) so was not fired this year but will be replaced next year too. It is a general problem among teens across the board. It is something I abhor. My kid has chores to do. If she wants something she does her chores to get an allowance. If she does not do them: no $. In short I am going for a work ethic here. All the messages I left trainers said that due to her age I expect that I will be expected to provide financial and physical assistance. Not catering to kids is one thing. Refusing to help them at all with an attitude of “So what we don’t need you or want you” is something else entirely.
Hobbyhorse,
You said it better than I did. I really didn’t know how to put it. I know kids 5-14 aren’t going to be interested in carriage driving, BUT there are people, young adults like me, who either can’t ride or want to try something new. And there’s really no place we can go to find people to help us.
Interest can obviously be generated, look at other countries and people like Marie Kahrle. When I was at Big Sky, she said she started driving at a young age, I believe 14. So by the time she was 20, she was an experienced driver. Now she’s very well respected and teaches at the Sweden State Stud. I hear from my mentor/teacher Frank Lütz about how the interest in driving starts very young in Germany.
It can be done. There are people in ADS trying to promote ADS to the younger crowd. I (and all the other young whips) thanked Claire Reed and Kelly Valdes immensely for the opportunity they gave us. We WANT those opportunities as young whips.
Half of those at Big Sky were 19-21, the other half 14-15. In my honest opinion from what I saw, the older kids appreciated the camp more than the younger ones. We saw how it is at the upper levels, how we need to train to get there. The younger kids had fun, learned lots, but really didn’t take it as seriously as myself and the other two older girls.
What’s disappointing is that even though I and the other two older girls have the drive to want to become a top level drivers, there’s no programs to help us. Claire’s camp is the only one. While I am extremely pleased with the ADS Youth programs, for they are greatly needed, anyone over 18 are already eliminated from those programs.
When I started getting interested in driving, I also got met with the “I don’t teach young people”. My question is “Why?” You are pushing away a potential paying client. I now have zero respect for that trainer. It utterly confounds me that people would want to push away teens and young adults from being interested in driving! Why push anyone away from possibly developing a passion for the sport, at any age?
USDF has the extremely popular and respected Junior Riders program and the Young Riders program. I understand that we don’t have the numbers of young people that the USDF has but why couldn’t the ADS have a program such as this?
It will be interesting to see how successful the ADS Youth program is. I’m hoping the young people who are eligible for the program will utilize it. I hope it’s a huge success and that it generates interest for more programs.
People who are truly passionate in something will devote their time to it. Even though I’m a beginner, I regularly attend my club’s meeting and events, I’m the club’s Awards Director, and I’m the club’s “go-to” for scribing at shows. So not every teenager or young adult fits into that “generation ME ME ME” mold.
Interesting thread. I was very surprised to hear you are having difficulty finding people to help you drive. Especially in the Brandywine area. Camohn, I PMd you with a couple of suggestions and am hoping what you were running in to in not getting answers back was busy people in the fall show season. Some of the folks you were originally directed to are heavily involved in some fall shows locally or as judges around the country. Here’s hoping you just hit them at a busy time and either you will hear or they will respond to a second call. Since some of them were themselves young drivers (Sterling Graburn, Katie Whaley, Jamie O’Rourke, the Cadwells, and many many more) I would hope they don’t turn away new young drivers looking to have the same kind of fun experience they did.
While I don’t go along with Trakehner’s ‘so what’ response I do feel the ADS keeps beating the same horse in developing youth programs at the expense of ‘new driver’ programs that would also be open to youth.
Reason? We’ve been here before and young drivers have tended to get a lot of opportunities and then drift away. Back in the 70s 80s we had a terrific program where you could apply for a spot to spend a week with a well-known trainer (more pleasure than CDE then). Year one there were quite a few young drivers interested, no so much after that and the program died. If it had been more open, I’m fairly certain the program would still be alive today.
Not anti-young driver at all, I just think the strength of the sport is the young working person and offering these opportunities to “new” rather than “young” drivers would benefit everyone more.
As to year end points and such, the ADS founders and most drivers from a while ago kept money prizes and points/year end awards etc out of the sport intentionally. Most came from other disciplines and felt the sport could survive better as a sport rather than a business without them. We wanted to avoid the point chasing, money chasing and all that goes with it we saw in other disciplines. I don’t know how many times you hear people talk about how driving is ‘different’ everyone helps each other and most competitions are more friendly than fierce. That’s what the the non-point/money people are hoping to preserve.
That said, with USEF developing a new pleasure driving committee to set their own rules rather than using the rules their driving affiliate (ADS) developed, some of that will be changing to what you would prefer. They are offering year end awards. I think your real problem though is driving is still a very small sport with competitions few and far between.
Training sessions like Big Sky are rare and valued. That is a super opportunity for young drivers to work with long-listed drivers and trainers who are here primarily to work with long listed and team drivers preparing for the Worlds. That kind of help is not available to most drivers any longer. USET used to run this type of training session with international drivers, but since they are now relegated to fund raising only and USEF doesn’t do this sort of thing for driving, they have fallen by the wayside. Maybe someone can fire up either USEF or ADS to bring them back - how about you? They are always looking for ‘new blood’ to carry the torch, Start with your local club. Sounds like you found a trainer for yourself, but want more experiences. Would your club consider bringing some terrific trainer in for a clinc if you helped / or took on setting it up?
The more folks who step up to the plate and start organizing, the more opportunities there will be to learn. IOW, when you say ‘they should’ look in a mirror and meat ‘they’. And by you, I don’t mean to single you out. I mean anyone who wants more opportunities. If you want it, make it happen and we’ll all benefit.
Drive NJ,
Thank you for the history of the youth programs. That kind of information is priceless because it shows you what worked in the past.
Also, thank you for bringing up a “new” driver program. That may be the solution, as long as its open to everyone.
My driving club is very “new person” oriented. We have bi-monthly “Buggy Buddy Days”. They are held usually on a Saturday, and last from about 10 am to 3pm. People bring their horses and inexperienced people are teamed up with experienced people. It’s great if you are inexperienced, you learn harness and carriage maintenance, and get help with rein handling, etc. It’s also great for people who have a young horse. For example, I’ll be bringing Fancy to the Oct. Buddy days. There I’m hoping to do her first hitch to the cart. It gives me as many extra hands as I need to do so safely. Lots of the experienced people bring their greenies just because of the extra hands. Our winter Buggy Buddy Day will be a long-lining and maintenance day, since it will probably be raining. This one is especially geared toward the new driver.
Our club also brings in two clinicians a year. Every Spring and Fall, Frank Lütz from Germany comes out for a three day clinic. His clinics are usually filled months in advance, and fill in one day (How I got a spot is beyond me). However, his clinic are usually geared to more advanced drivers who have a solid understanding of Dressage. Since I had such a solid background in dressage before driving, I naturally understood where Frank was coming from.
Every summer, we bring Larry Brinker from Canada for a two day clinic, followed by a ADT judged by his wife. This format is VERY popular. Other CA clubs are beginning to follow this format. Larry can be geared for all levels. Larry is also very popular. Again, I lucked out with a spot. I can’t say enough good things about Larry. I’m thinking of saving up money to take my mare down the state in Feb. since he’ll be giving a clinic then.
I would LOVE to bring Shelly Temple out here for a clinic. I think she would be wonderful for new drivers who don’t have a grasp of dressage concepts. She’s wonderful to work with, and she’s very encouraging. She was a wonderful judge at our Pacific Region Dressage Festival. I believe our club’s 2009 schedule is already jammed packed.
I, Diane Kastama, Leslie Berndl, and Nicole Dancer (another young driver) are all speaking at the Oct. Pacific Region Regional Meeting about our experiences. I think this would be a wonderful meeting for people who are interested in driving to go to. I’m going to make flyers and post them in my college’s equine science department.
If I generate any interest in the college community, I would love to give a talk to the equine science department at the college. I also wouldn’t mind giving talks at local Pony Club, FFA, or 4H clubs.
I’m used to giving informational talks. I’m a statistics major, which needless to say, is a very rare major. I give talks to my High School to juniors and seniors about the possibilities of a statistics degree and college living in general. My talks have gone over big and I will going back to my high school next year as well.
I have a feeling 2009 will be very busy for me…
“…I understand that we don’t have the numbers of young people that the USDF has but why couldn’t the ADS have a program such as this?”
Well, perhaps the members don’t want their funds spent this way.
I like that driving isn’t “kid obsessed”, I like it’s an adult horse sport. I also like the driving clubs aren’t bowing down to the parent demanding we cater to their kids. I like going to a driving show/event and not hearing the same noise and drama the hunter shows generate.
If parents want their kids to drive…hey, good for them. Open up the checkbook and pay for your own kid. The driving world doesn’t owe anyone’s kid the chance to drive, special classes or “kids are the future-you owe them”. Uh, nope, we don’t. Kids aren’t going to be adding anything to the sport.
As someone mentioned, do beginner outreach. One of my driving clubs does a beginner lesson program in the summer. Once a week, for a month, we hold an evening with an instructor and experienced whips and their rigs. We volunteer our time and horses so these people can learn about driving. They’re all adults of all ages. If it was a kid program, I don’t believe we’d have anyone showing up.
Are there good kids? Of course there are. Put I’d bet most drivers want to bring people into the sport who will bring something to it besides attitudes of entitlement and laziness.
[QUOTE=Cartfall;3548935]
This sport takes money I think that is why you see mostly more mature folks. [/QUOTE]
Exactly. At age 19-20, I was obsessed with CDE. I bought my first horse with that in mind, and taught him to drive. Eventually, I realized it was just not possible on my budget, so I put it on the back burner. I still pleasure drive, but there’s no way I’ll be able to do a CDE until I’m out of college and established financially.
Although, if I could compete in my borrowed homemade pipe cart (made from a Geo Metro axle and wheels) I’d probably give it a try anyway. :lol:
Given many of the points that have been made on this thread… and my own opinions… I think it would be nice to go the other way and offer more for the mature driver. Big Sky is right around the corner from me and I’d LOVE to have the opportunity offered to those kids! Personally I think ADS needs to sponsor more adult camps and clinics as there are many like us who have come to this sport later in life.
As the father of two talented young drivers I know first hand how hard it is to not only gain a junior drivers interest but also to “keep” there interest in this sport & it’s not just a junior problem either it’s all across the board.
I love teaching kids how to drive, it’s one of the more enjoyable things I do. My son is a very natural driver with a gift for the sport, but he finds it very hard to “fit in” to the sport. There is no real place for kids to just go out and have fun in a low key environment.
I sat down with both my children a while back and asked them what they would like to have in a driving sport, that would want them to go out and harness a horse and drive and we can up with the Scurry Challenge. At first it was only something we did to have fun as a family, but it is turning out to be really fun for everyone!
I am asking driving clubs & groups to down load the course and the rule & give it a try! We plan to have club, state and national competitions. It’s not a “race” it’s a timed event!!! You can go to my site and download the full course, set it up a home and practice the course. My kids love it because the pattern is the same every event, just the time allowed changes.
We are just starting with the first few runs here in Aiken SC this fall, and with driving clubs holding events north & south of us. If you like the idea present it to your club!! Or hold one yourself and contact me to get your times and info on the yahoo group so people know what your doing!
This is my way of trying to fix a problem by doing something different rather than just talking about what’s wrong. It may not appeal to everyone but I’m not trying to appeal to everyone!
Camohn, I am sorry to hear of the response you have had, if you’re ever in my area bring your little ones here and we will have a blast!!
Robert
Tandem Hill Farm
Just wanted to add
That the program in the 70s-80s were not the only ones offered over the years. There have been many - locally and nationally.
Also wanted to congratulate Dancing Appy on being so involved in your sport. The more you give, the more you get as you apparently know well. Your club sounds great.
Tandem4U - great idea too.
You see - it doesn’t need to be a wasteland with not enough ops for young and new drivers. The more each of us does, the more will be out there for us to take part in.
Leave you with what we tell folks who get into organizing - Do what you like to do - that way at least one person is happy AND you don’t mind doing the work if it is something you wanted anyway.
[QUOTE=tandem4u;3552909]
As the father of two talented young drivers I know first hand how hard it is to not only gain a junior drivers interest but also to “keep” there interest in this sport & it’s not just a junior problem either it’s all across the board.
I love teaching kids how to drive, it’s one of the more enjoyable things I do. My son is a very natural driver with a gift for the sport, but he finds it very hard to “fit in” to the sport. There is no real place for kids to just go out and have fun in a low key environment.
I sat down with both my children a while back and asked them what they would like to have in a driving sport, that would want them to go out and harness a horse and drive and we can up with the Scurry Challenge. At first it was only something we did to have fun as a family, but it is turning out to be really fun for everyone!
I am asking driving clubs & groups to down load the course and the rule & give it a try! We plan to have club, state and national competitions. It’s not a “race” it’s a timed event!!! You can go to my site and download the full course, set it up a home and practice the course. My kids love it because the pattern is the same every event, just the time allowed changes.
We are just starting with the first few runs here in Aiken SC this fall, and with driving clubs holding events north & south of us. If you like the idea present it to your club!! Or hold one yourself and contact me to get your times and info on the yahoo group so people know what your doing!
This is my way of trying to fix a problem by doing something different rather than just talking about what’s wrong. It may not appeal to everyone but I’m not trying to appeal to everyone!
Camohn, I am sorry to hear of the response you have had, if you’re ever in my area bring your little ones here and we will have a blast!!
Robert
Tandem Hill Farm[/QUOTE]
Thanks! The older step daughter went to college in NC so we didn’t get much past there in the past and now she lives in VA so that is kinda as far as we go. We did go to Myrtle Beach last winter though with the whole extended family…mine and the step daughters in laws too. Hard to get a farm sitter for 13 horses so we don’t get away often!!!
Wow. I was about to post - “I’m young, and I’m interested!” Then I realized that I am pushing 30 and not even qualified as a young person anymore. Time flies!
The limiting factor for me, as a not-too-far-over-the-hill person, is cost. I can’t manage the equipment purchases that are necessary to get into a new equestrian sport, and I’m guessing this is the case for a lot of folks. When it comes to riding, I am often able to borrow someone else’s horse and saddle (when mine isn’t appropriate). Driving? Not so much. I think most young, dedicated equestrians can find a way to stay involved at least somewhat in horse sports through catch riding and borrowing here and there. Spare driving horses, harness and vehicles are a lot harder to find . . . and for those that are not already well settled in a lucrative career, the startup costs might be prohibitive.
I would jump at the chance to take driving lessons or have a driving mentor, and would have done so earlier in life as well, but I haven’t had much exposure to the sport and those opportunities never presented themselves. I DO hope that my finances will eventually be such that I can give my daughter’s an introduction to driving before they fly the coop!
Too bad you’re on the wrong coast… I’d love to have a young person around to ride/drive. We’ve currently got 4 who drive with a 5th soon-to-be and several who ride. Too many for us to keep up with!
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