Getting and maintaining impulsion...HELP!!

[PrinceSheik325]

Hi COTHers…crossing over from the eventing board here. I have a young OTTB, who has a lot of potential to do quite well in the dressage phase. We recently went to a clinic with Nick Larkin, who explained that my horse, while trotting around in a “cute” trot, is not really giving me 100%. He suggested working on a “medium plus” trot to get him to come through from his hind end so that I can ask for flexion in the front without completely losing all of our energy. This strategy worked really well when Nick was there to correct me for not having enough impulsion, but since the clinic, I’ve noticed that my horse is peetering out energy-wise. I find myself putting so much effort into keeping him moving that I compromise my position (I can literally kick him and produce no reaction). I ride in spurs and have carried a dressage whip, but neither aid produces much of a reaction.

I don’t want to up his grain if I can help it because while he can be a bit of an underachiever at times, he’s been known to leap into the air exuberantly at a moment’s notice and test my bronco riding skills. Any tips on getting and maintaining impulsion without giving myself a heart attack?

Thanks in advance!

[Countrywood]

What corrections did he give you ? Maybe you can email him and he’d sumarize them?

It also takes time for a young horse to build up enough strength for impulsion so he can’t give you what he does not have. Imo build up his carrying power ( as impulsion is about carrying power, not speed), which can be done with changes of gait, ground poles, caveletti etc. Maybe a few steps of impulsion till he is strong enough, some build it up on lunge line as well because they can see how horse moves, using side reins or Vienna reins.

The problem with trying to get impulsion from a horse not yet strong enough/used to giving it is one can end up nagging with aids as you find yourself doing, my horse is a master at getting me to do that but I have to say since he is getting stronger I see a marked difference.

Edit to add, carrying power horse carrying himself , not the rider lol…loading hind end more to lighten front end Scirbbler describes well below. Leg yield and circles build up the muscles and balance as well

[Scribbler]

By “flexion in the front,” I gather you mean putting the horse in a “frame” or head set?

IME, doing this prematurely, that is before the horse is ready to start some collection work, leads to horses losing impulsion and falling on the forehand, because the strong bit contact is saying “stop.” This leads to constant nagging with the spurs and whip, and the horse getting both heavy on the hands, and rather dead to the leg.

I would suggest forgetting about the head set or frame for now, and concentrating on what the rest of the horse’s body is doing. Do big stretchy trot, let the horse’s head be in front of the vertical. He will need to build up the strength to start collected trot before you can move to real medium trot.

You want to see him giving you a big stretchy trot, tracking up and really moving, and having the strength to do this for some time, before you start asking him to collect, and focus all that energy upwards. A collected trot should feel very light in front, like the horse is about to bound away, not just like a western jog. At first, they can’t hold the collected pose for that long, and even later, you don’t want to school in it for a whole hour. Collection is a change in the whole posture of the horse and how he is using his hind end, and this is where you start asking for poll flexions. From collection you can start moving into medium trot, which is the first step to extended trot, in which you keep the upward orientation of the collection, but move out with bigger steps.

As an eventer, I’m sure you get impulsion in other phases! Work with that, work with him in open country.

Also, sounds like you could use some ongoing sessions with a good dressage coach, one that will develop the horse long-term. Not someone who is going to just go for the quick head-set, and leave you with training holes that strand you in First Level forever. Sounds like your one clinic was really useful, but you need ongoing input.

[PrinceSheik325]

Thank you both for the helpful replies! I completely agree that we need some ongoing sessions with a good dressage coach. Nick is coming back to our area soon for lessons, so I will ride with him again thank goodness. I also have a couple of other good options nearby.

I also agree that we cannot work on collection until the impulsion is there. He’s certainly more forward in open country (especially once we’re jumping), but the second we are in a ring, he is so incredibly lethargic. This is such a change from my last thoroughbred, who was a constant ball of energy. Having always preferred hotter horses, I’m not sure how to deal with this one, who at times is so slow it feels like his legs are stuck in molasses. I can usually get some decent forward movement out of him, but the second I take my leg off, he uses that as an excuse to suck back. We have been doing a lot of transition work - walk to trot to walk, etc. and walk to trot to canter to trot to walk, etc. - and he is quite fit. He’s also been checked from top to bottom multiple times by my vet, and there’s nothing wrong with him. Still, I feel like I’m having to work a lot harder to keep him going than I should have to.

I have noticed that this only seems to be the case at home. When we go away to shows, he has more energy and doesn’t know where “home” is. At home, he tries to rubber neck by every gate and gets very distracted looking for his field. Sometimes I feel like I’m letting him get away with underachieving, but quite honestly, riding him is a pretty huge work-out. I go to the gym 4-5 times per week and also do barre in addition to riding, and I still feel like I’m not fit enough to keep him going for any length of time.

[Countrywood]

You should not have to be super fit to keep him going he has trapped you into nagging him! How is he on lunge line do you do lunge work at all? That can help get him reacting to your voice or whip plus you can watch him dragging feet sucking back etc and wave whip or touch him with it to motivate him.

Also do turn on forehand, leg yield etc in ring to get his attention on you sounds like he is tuning you out and giving least possible while you nag him mine is like that a constant battle, he takes 15 minutes to get out of what I call “donkey phase” and then he has connection and energy but does not give it up, my trainer has me use whip more often then legs and tapping etc, also asking for leg yield and shoulder in he responds better to doing harder stuff then just trotting around. Very frustrating I thought I wanted a quiet one lol, my previous horses were hotter too. Ground poles help a lot as does cavaletti

[Kimchi]

It seems like first off you need to get your guy sensitive to the leg. My mare is like yours she will just tune you out, so I have to be very precise with my aids and make sure I don’t fall into the aiding all the time trap.

I would do it at the walk first and ask nicely with no spur for a trot, if nothing happens boot him forward, give a tap with the whip if needed, its ok if his head is in the air or if he canters he just needs to move. after he has gone for a moment bring him back to the walk and ask very nicely for the trot. repeat until he knows when you ask nicely he needs to get going.

[Countrywood]

Another tip to build strength and thus impulsion and get your horse in habit of being “on” in the ring, is ask for impulsion in the walk, not just trot and canter. Even when you take a walk break, and let reins out, keep him forward at the walk. In regular walk, a marching, energetic walk. If they become conditioned to that, then it is much easier to get them to be energetic and use themselves in trot and then canter. I have been insisting on a marching walk lately and it has helped get him mind and body into it .

Better for shorter sessions in ring with good effort and results then longer ones esp earlier on when he probably does not have the strength for it. A horse can be very fit but not strong for the muscles and carrying power needed for dressage. An event horse will never look totally like a dressage horse but they still need that strength , kind of like weight lifting for a person (dressage muscles for a horse ) vs lean running muscles for fitness. Look at some photos of upper level dressage horses and see how powerful HG loins and chest are

[AnastasiaBeaverhousen]

Make sure you are not using the brakes and stepping on the gas at the same time.

[merrygoround]

As Anastasia said, make sure your body is going with the trot, also that in your effort to get lift, you are not accidentally shutting him down. Getting lift requires you to carry you, feel as the upper part of your body is lifting, but make sure your seat stays in the saddle.

Another way to get him up and forward is to transition to canter when he lags, and then be sure to keep the energy you get when you transition down. I remember more than one horse that I frequently sent off into canter, as a prelude to any lateral work.

[sophie]

Reading your OP brought back memories of riding sluggish school horses when I was a kid- one lesson that stuck with me was the “lesson to the leg” that our (military) instructors had us do whenever our horse was not listening to our aids.

Ask for forward. If horse doesn’t respond right away, WHACK him with the crop right behind your leg…and suffer the consequences, lol! We were told to let the horse jump forward (and yes, some would take off bucking) let them go forward, then bring them back gently and ask again. We usually only had to do this once per lesson. What helped also was lots of “immediate” transitions, trot-halt, halt-trot, walk-canter-walk etc.

It’s unusual to have to do that with an Ottb tho! All the ones I’ve known were very forward naturally.

[PrinceSheik325]

[QUOTE=sophie;8607697]
It’s unusual to have to do that with an Ottb tho! All the ones I’ve known were very forward naturally.[/QUOTE]

RIGHT?!?! He can certainly be forward when he wants to be; he’s just super stubborn and sometimes very distracted. I’ve been working on whacking him with the crop when he is not producing energy. It does usually result in a buck, but he goes more forward after that. The funny thing about this horse is that as soon as we start jumping, he’s got energy for days. He’s just an underachiever on the flat. The upside to all of this is that my legs have never looked better.

[pryme_thyme]

I can relate OP.
I am a trained hunter rider through and through and schooled my mare to be a hunter as well. Turned out mare has a cute jump and tolerates it enough to look interested but her real sparkle came out when my dressage coach would ride her.
Who would have 'thunk a dressage bred horse would prefer dressage…

Anyways, while I still jump I focus mainly on dressage now.
I never have issues with forward or impulsion when I allow my mare a longer rein. But when I take up more contact, she falls behind my leg.
At first it was understandable, confusion with go/stop aids, I would let it go and gently encourage forward and take up bits of contact, lots of praise.
Retraining and remuscling right?

After a year, and I ride 4-5 times a week, I was still having trouble.
I realized my mare’s ‘confusion’ had now turned to an evasion to avoid harder work. Smart cookie.
So, with the help of my coach, we got down to business.
My mare is like your OTTB. Whip, spur does get a reaction but for a limited period and I do not want to rely on these methods, if only for the reason that what if I get somewhere off premise and realize I have forgotten my spurs or whip etc.
What worked for us was waking up the brain, utilize your horse’s innate anticipation response.

IE. Quick succession transitions, proper walt-canter-walk, halt-rein back-canter and so on. Few strides of each gait. TOF/TOH’s and instantly trot or canter. Flying changes through serpentines.
And the second most important factor for my mare. Loosen the body. So lateral work esp. haunches in and out for us, deep stretches (carrot stretches but from the tack, I do face scritches), lateral flexions in the neck to relax the neck muscles (mare likes to brace to evade).

Overall, constant changes to ensure mind and body loosen and cannot ‘lock’ against you.

Good luck. I still struggle with this from time to time depending on mare’s mood but the process shortens as they learn what you want and learn to relax and release their tension.

Cheers

[Pipkin]

Forward and back really helps mine, he’s lazy too, you need to keep at it until you feel them ready and waiting for your forward aid, and taking the contact forward/showing a desire to increase energy.

My guy is very fast. Don’t mistake speed for forwardness

[belgianWBLuver]

After you rule out any physical issues, just f&$#ng kick him & hang on. Preferably in a round pen!
Worked for my guy (with a very talented cowboy up) and we’ve never looked back…

[Hawks_Nest]

As others have said, ask and then demand a reaction. Start with walk-halt-walk. If, when you apply leg to walk forward he does nothing hit him so that he jumps forward. If he bucks correct it (my guy will generally pin his ears and snake his head before going forward), it is not acceptable to walk back about going forward. Repeat until all you need is the lightest aid to go forward, then take it up to trot.

Do be careful to do the above exercise with a loose rein and give when you ask for forward so you don’t block him (some horses buck when they feel trapped about the forward aid). And do not be afraid to go back to this if he gets dull to your leg. Something else to watch out for is that when you ask for more forward you are not getting behind the motion and inadvertently slowing him down. Make sure you go with him and any time you feel comfortable with the pace/tempo it is probably too slow.

[Libby2563]

You’ve gotten good suggestions (especially the ask lightly then send forward emphatically when there’s no response, which you do have to be consistent about). I’ll add two more that have helped me with my lazy guy. First, I let him warm up on a very loose rein, asking for nothing but forward energy and swing through the back (circles and figure 8s help add some bend). If I pick him up too soon, he tends to back off and require more leg. Second, I worked really hard this winter on learning to keep my legs still on his sides and it made a HUGE difference. Just a bit of swing in the canter and bounce in the trot was creating noise between us, so he would tune me out. Now he knows that if my leg moves, it means something, and he requires hardly a fraction of the effort to ride that he did before. Good luck!

[flyracing]

He’s not on your aids, so that must be addressed first. Cluck, kick, stick.

1. cluck. If no response,
2. take legs off the side of the horse, if no response then
3. kick! If no response, one big whack with the
4. crop! Enough to make sure you get a forward motion!

Repeat until the horse is jumping forward from a cluck only (important aid for an event horse). Then repeat as needed, so you never start nagging (nagging= detraining). Learning to go from taking the leg off, also give you a very quiet and effective aid to use when your horse gets behind the aids in a test or in front of a fence.

Remember that the delay between each step is important to give the horse a chance to respond and give a positive response. If the steps are going through too quickly or too slowly, it’s less effective.

Then, when your horse is on the aids, you can start working on issues like impulsion. Always identify the root of a problem, then come up with a plan to train the issue to fix it and not just ride the same problem every day. Good luck!

[tbchick84]

You might have to back the truck up a bit and go back to rhythm before heading back up the training scale. Forget about everything in front of the shoulders and warm up on a long rein (or as long as you can with a young TB) and just get him thinking forward. Don’t let him sucker you into nagging him. Ask once politely to go forward. If no answer ask again with a good kick. If still no answer, pop him behind your leg with a crop and make sure the reins are long enough to let him answer correctly.

Once he’s consistently forward on a consistent rhythm, then start playing with varying rhythm, aka forward/back transitions. If he’s like most horses, each time he comes back, you’ll have a little more slack to take up in the reins, so take it but be sure to keep your elbows soft and following. Gradually refine the forward/back to where it’s a very subtle transition, aka the half halt. By the time you get there, you will most likely have all the slack taken up in the reins for the frame your horse is capable of carrying. From there, just use half halts to refresh his gait whenever you start to feel him lose his balance.

I think this horse is most likely fit enough to do what you’re asking, but probably just confused about how it’s being asked. Just use the training scale and think linear, one thing at a time. If he becomes frustrated or tunes you out, just backup and start again.

[arlosmine]

If your horse slows down the second you take your leg off, you are stuck in what I call “Fred Flintstone” syndrome (Fred was the car’s motor…if he stopped pedaling, the car stopped moving). Your horse is not in front of your leg. That needs to be solved before you can do anything else.
There is a great exersize to solve this: put him on a 20 m Circle, and use your whip at every quarter of a circle. The horse must make a very noticeable surge forward or you are not whacking them hard enough. If the horse is pilled up way behind the leg, sometimes the what’s must be VERY hard at first. Don’t worry about where his head is at all…When the horse stars to anticipate being whacked at every quarter circle, you stop whacking them and give them one, and I mean one correct nudge with your calves at each quarter circle. If they do not react with a significant surge you then whacked instantly. You must not hit them in the mouth or back, and if there is an overreaction, you “go with it”.
The idea is for the horse to:
A) learn the correct reaction to the whip.
B) learn to interpret the (light, ideal aid, used ONCE) leg as an early warning that if that the whip will come in one stride if the leg is not answered instantly.

This only works if you are committed to using only an ideal leg aid. No devolving to the escalating leg aid stuff. One perfect leg aid, then wham. Every time. Once they get the idea on the circle, you use the whole arena. The circle is used at first to establish an anticipation at every 1/4 circle, which is then transferred to the one correct leg aid.
Take the Spurs off. Of the horse is way behind you, the Spurs won’t work well anyway. You need to install a correct reaction to “naked calf”.

[BatataHead]

[QUOTE=arlosmine;8613884]
If your horse slows down the second you take your leg off, you are stuck in what I call “Fred Flintstone” syndrome (Fred was the car’s motor…if he stopped pedaling, the car stopped moving). Your horse is not in front of your leg. That needs to be solved before you can do anything else.
There is a great exersize to solve this: put him on a 20 m Circle, and use your whip at every quarter of a circle. The horse must make a very noticeable surge forward or you are not whacking them hard enough. If the horse is pilled up way behind the leg, sometimes the what’s must be VERY hard at first. Don’t worry about where his head is at all…When the horse stars to anticipate being whacked at every quarter circle, you stop whacking them and give them one, and I mean one correct nudge with your calves at each quarter circle. If they do not react with a significant surge you then whacked instantly. You must not hit them in the mouth or back, and if there is an overreaction, you “go with it”.
The idea is for the horse to:
A) learn the correct reaction to the whip.
B) learn to interpret the (light, ideal aid, used ONCE) leg as an early warning that if that the whip will come in one stride if the leg is not answered instantly.

This only works if you are committed to using only an ideal leg aid. No devolving to the escalating leg aid stuff. One perfect leg aid, then wham. Every time. Once they get the idea on the circle, you use the whole arena. The circle is used at first to establish an anticipation at every 1/4 circle, which is then transferred to the one correct leg aid.
Take the Spurs off. Of the horse is way behind you, the Spurs won’t work well anyway. You need to install a correct reaction to “naked calf”.[/QUOTE]

Wow - I have never heard of this method but I can see where it could be very effective and a way to use anticipation to your advantage. My horse is not truly in front of my leg, but I’m a little hesitant to try this, since he has an odd reaction to the whip (often no reaction at first - if you continue to use the whip harder 80% of the time he grinds to a stop and hops up and down in place. 20% of the time he stops and then eventually moves forward, but not crisply). Currently I rely on lots of cantering early in warm up and lots of transitions to get him forward.