Anyone else surprised ES was sent to the holding box today? I am actually finding it hard to remember the last big FEI event where she’s not been spun or sent to the box multiple times, with multiple horses at that. What gives? Absolutely poor horsemanship. I pray for no serious injuries for them this weekend.
Who the heck is ES?
If she was sent to the holding box (I assuming it was her horse’s gait that was suspect, not hers), it was a public event. Public, as in you don’t have to sign an NDA to watch the trot-up at LR3DE.
So please name names. There’s no reason not to and then half-assed people like me will know who you’re going on about without having to cross reference with other reports.
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From Eventing Nation:
A total of 42 horses were presented at the first inspection on a beautiful afternoon here at the Land Rover Kentucky Three Day Event, with all but one accepted to send 41 forward to start the competition.
The ground jury of Christina Klingspor (SWE), Martin Plewa (GER) and Mark Weissbecker (USA) sent three horses to the holding box: Hallie Coon’s mount Celien, Erin Sylvester’s mount Paddy The Caddy, and Ashley Johnson’s mount Tactical Maneuver. Celien and Paddy The Caddy were accepted upon re-inspection, and Tactical Maneuver was sadly not accepted.
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I find it very common to use abbreviations in internet threads - not as an attempt to hide anything or be sneaky. God knows how many times Marilyn Little Meredith was referred to as MLM. ES = Erin Sylvester
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Not wrong, but usually they are referred to in acronym form later in the thread, after they have been identified some place earlier in the thread.
Thank you for clarifying.
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It’s certainly not the only horse that ends up in the hold box sometimes. There are plenty of others that have found themselves there - or getting rung out of dressage, or getting spun from the final jog - on more than one occasion. In this same field of horses, even. Not particularly fair to single out Erin if you aren’t going to throw the others under the bus along with her. Some horses have mechanical issues in their movement that make them predisposed to looking a bit uneven, so I’d be really careful about throwing out accusations of poor horsemanship without knowing any details.
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I have seen horses sent to the holding box just because they are not good movers or have less than ideal limbs. The Ground Jury is seeing them for the first time and as they may look ‘off’ they are sent to the holding pen. The horse is then closely examined by a vet, who might come over to have a word with the GJ before the horse is represented. It is all about horse welfare and safety. Some riders are resigned to their less-than-perfect horses always being held for a second go.
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Holly Payne got sent to the holding box and spun with her bay horse after XC. Horse had capped hocks and after watching the video, he didnt seem unsound. Just not great confirmation and a different way of going. Unfortunate.
I watched the Paddy horse go on the flat a few times at events and it doesnt always look 100% but honestly I think its just the way the horse goes. Dont think we really need a thread bashing the horse but here we are.
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I understand that some horses have unconventional movement - my concern is more focused around the fact shes had this happen with multiple horses, multiple times. Last year both of her horses were sent to the hold at the first inspection, with mettraise not being accept (that horse was sold following kentucky 2018 because soundness wouldnt allow her continue a career at upper levels), her second mount paddy the caddy was spun after the second jog last year. Paddy the caddy held at fair hill in the fall, now here this year as well. Having this happen this many times really is a general concern for something bigger than just unconventional movement. So not personally trying to single anyone out, but the facts are the facts. What if something catastrophic DID happened to horse and rider over the weekend? Im most positive this track record will be brought back up and then the public will start attacking not only the rider, but the officials and the sport as a whole.
Just wanted to start a non aggresive but important thread about this topic, should there be rules for multiple occurrences like this? Should officials/vets look deeper into horses that are sent to the box at each event they are at? I dont know if i could personally justify continuing on a 5* XC course with a horse that has THAT much of an unconventional.
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Seems like this topic comes up regularly around a lot of the major events. Horse gets sent to the hold box because he appears unsound/irregular/uneven - is it because he has an active issue that is brewing or is his irregularity more mechanical - perhaps as a result of an old issue? There seems to be a contingent that doesn’t believe in mechanical at all. I would love to be a fly that could buzz between the ground jury and the vet box and listen.
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@Groom&Taxi me as well! It definitely makes me curious what they are saying they see to these horses that end up there multiple times.
we had a 17 year old stallion (weg/Panam horse) and a 15 year old mare (panam/olympics) who regularly had to be re-presented. they were slow to warm up and just weren’t horses you lunged. Sometimes you have the time or means to ride, head over, and pull tack and then go, but it isn’t always feasible. And definitely not at these top fashion show events.
I had a friend who every week asked me to scare one of his horses on the way to trot ups, because it was super lazy and tended to drag without a bit of adrenalin.
When I was 8 months pregnant I had to represent a similarly lazy six year old. we were both pretty much shuffling, and not because she was unsound. she was just a donkey.
More often than not the reasons aren’t nefarious, and a second trot up is not at all an immediate black mark on one’s horsemanship, especially in the discipline where the horses tend to be nutto during the jog. If your horse is galloping sideways, you will definitely have to represent. been there too. I’m actually surprised it doesn’t happen more at these events.
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Well, Erin is local to me. I don’t know her well, but she seems like a nice person. The fact that I have never heard one bad word said about her (which I can’t say about most of the local pros!) also makes me think there is nothing nefarious going on.
ETA: I was confusing Erin with someone else, so I moderated my praise! Although I stand by never having heard anything negative about her.
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I thought she was referring to Ellen Dougherty-Smith based on the fact that she has been spun and even rung out of the ring at events… 
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Um. Who?
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I do know Erin…no…she is NOT sent to the holding box with multiple horses all the time. Paddy gets sent to the holding box fairly often…and she had a mare a few years ago who on Sunday got spun…as have many others. There are some horses who do get sent to the holding box. There are also some pros who are EXPERT at being able to jog an unsound horse and make them look sound (I don’t consider Erin one of those). And then there are others…like me…who can jog a sound horse and make them look unsound!!!
I would NOT read anything EVER into jogs…or being sent to holding boxes. It means nothing IME about the competency of a rider or their horsemanship or honestly, the soundness of the horse. What I care more on safety is how they look going xc. Do they have lots of falls and stops…that is FAR more a risky horse/rider combination than one that perhaps doesn’t jog well. And Erin and Paddy are quite good on xc so I’m not worried about them…
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I dont agree that jogs mean “nothing” when it comes to the soundness of a horse. If that was true, why would they even do them? The mare was spun last year 1st jog, and paddy last year second jog - i made sure to check the results so i was not putting out false info.
Ellen is another great example of this topic though. Sent to holding box all the time, horse was head bobbing lame in test yesterday which numerous people on the kentucky thread pointed out. I would argue that on paper, both of these women do not have good track records at the moment with jogs. Both as you said, are usually able to get around xc decently, but what about when thats not the case?
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Obviously OP you have an axe to grind. Two horses is not the the tone of “multiple” horses you took by starting this post. And anyone who has been around jogs for events for a long time knows that there are MANY unsound horses who get through and sound horses who are spun. A horse can have a way of going that always gets him sent to the hold box…this has happened to many good horses for years. They can be lazy and jog like crap, they be be wild so that hides a lameness. The jogs really don’t do much…that is my opinion. As riders and owners we have the responsibility to make sure our horse is well prepared…and I personally will trust the opinion of my vet who sees my horse regularly and knows their history to evaluate their soundness rather then the GJ at a jog who sees the horse for 30 seconds…and I trust that is also the case with 99% of the riders, including Erin who I know has a good vet team. And I wont judge a rider who has a horse who gets sent to the hold box…I might get more judgey about a rider who breaks every horse in their string on a regular basis…but often those horses Do get through the jogs…you just never see them again after a season or two.
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OP I have had to wait a few days so I can compose an objective response to your very nonobjective post. If we are going to put all the facts out there (like you stated) then it’s pretty easy to find that last year Paddy threw a shoe at the head of the lake and then proceeded to run the rest of the cross country course without it. I’m pretty sure no one would use getting spun the following day as ammo against Erin (as previously said though, here we are). Since you can’t remember any big events where she hasn’t been spun let me help. Ocala was their last big event and not only were there no holds, her and Paddy just happened to end up second.
Her mare that you mentioned was sold is actually still owned by Erin and she is actively involved in her life at the lower levels. Having to make the responsible decision of dropping a horse down is hard enough without you making a forum about it.
If you regularly watched the jogs you would understand that many lame horses regularly pass the jogs and many sound horses get sent to the hold box. As much as many of us would like to believe this was not the case it is a very political scene and the names attached to the horses do matter. As previously mentioned it is also a skill to get a horse to pass a jog and horsemanship has nothing to do with it. Erin is one of the most legitimate riders I have met. When it is time for a horse to drop down there is no question that is what she would do for them. I’m pretty sure Paddy’s almost flawless dressage, cross country, and show jumping speak for itself. Please think twice about singling a person out at all. It speaks quite a bit about YOUR character that you would chose to make a targeted post going into a 5* weekend. This is the first I have been involved in this anonymous forum and hopefully the last. I’m pretty disgusted on multiple levels by what people are willing to say about others when they are sitting behind a computer screen.
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Had to see what the new post on this thread was, and MRCatch, if you know her, not that she’d have any reason to care, there are many of us who love watching her ride and thought they looked fantastic over the weekend.
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