Girth spinoff: Shoulder relief girths?

[subk]

Are there any studies that show that shoulder relief girths actually work? I love the idea but I can’t seem to buy into the concept working.

Years ago I had a master saddler recommend using a wide straight girth. She reasoned that the wider the girth the broader the area of tension across the belly. If you were going to wear a tight belt a wider tight belt would be more comfortable than a narrow tight belt. That made sense to me.

She went on to suggest that if I felt I needed a shaped girth then to pick one with the widest narrow point I could find. Tension travels in a straight line/along the most efficient route. So physics does not allow the wide part of the girth to be carrying the direct tension and instead even though the girth mostly looks wide the main tension is mainly being carried through the girth at a width that is equivalent to its narrowest point. If the narrowest point is an inch or so then we are back to the skinny belt problem. Having seen plenty of old and well used shaped girths that seems about right too.

So I look at these shoulder relief girths and if I visualize them as a piece of fabric (or a string girth!) then pull on both ends I’m back to the problem of the reality being there is only a small width of girth that is the main thoroughfare for the tension. The integrity of the leather plays a roll–and if it were steel I could see it working better, but doesn’t the same pliability and flexibility that is necessary for a girth work in the first place work against the general concept of tension relief?

I love to hear some feed back from anyone that uses shoulder relief girths or any STEM folks out there that actually think about things like physics in real world applications…

[AutumnReign]

I bought the Total Saddle Fit Shoulder Relief girth for my mare 3 years ago.
it worked beautifully for a saddle that was not an ideal fit, as it put more pressure on the rear of the saddle, and was relatively uniform across the entire girth.
Now, I’ve taken the plunge and got a brand new saddle, that fits much better than the old saddle, and I found my mare to turn into a girthy *****. upon inspection I found the TSF girth to now be gaping in the front, applying a very thin line of pressure along the rear of the girth only, and a lot pressure across her sternum. I changed to a flat girth - my mare is no longer sour.

I think they have their place, but now that i have a saddle that fits, it’s not a place in my tack box.

[eventer215]

I was skeptical, but have had very good success with several of the OTTBs that I ride. One was very girthy, also would balk at the mounting block, balk when asking to pick up the trot, etc. This has all but disappeared with use of the shoulder relief girth. Another would get very anxious when the girth was tightened, no matter how slowly it was done. He would bolt forward and hump his back. If not lunged before mounting, he would feel like he was going to do something not very nice. I still tighten the girth slowly with the shoulder relief, but it has made a dramatic difference with him!

[poltroon]

I think your basic principle is sound, subk, with a couple of caveats.

First, is that horses are not cylindrical nor even back to front. So, a wide, straight girth might gap in front and dig in behind. Some horses are fairly even in their cross-section in the girth area but some are not, and horses in the latter camp are more likely to benefit from one of these different girths.

Second is that I am thinking that a girth with some rigidity across the sternum and more flexibility going across the elbow area might well change how pressure is distributed in some significant way. That’s not IRC a factor in the TSF girth, but there are a couple of girths out there playing with this idea.

In particular, I am thinking these days about the pressure point that is created by the fact that the horse has “corners” at the elbow area. A stiff girth may inadvertently create more pressure in this area. There was one group that tried several and found that horses really liked the nice simple Balding girths, and I suspect the flexibility may be why.

At the end of the day, what I think we are learning is that horses do have preferences for reasons that are not immediately apparent to us, and that some of the girths meant to be more comfortable aren’t, but some are.

I’ve looked at a lot of girths with the same skeptical eye and left them in the catalog on on the shelf for most of the same reasons.

[Bensmom]

My totally non-scientific observations: We have a TSF Shoulder Relief short girth, and it has worked for Razzy, but to be honest, I’ve not seen a big difference in it freeing up her shoulder.

In her case, she’s a mare with a big barrel, and her girth channel is way far forward. With a traditionally shaped girth, if you placed it where it slides anyway, which is forward, it would put the saddle over her shoulders. Essentially, the shaped nature of the girth allows it to fit her where it needs to, and still work for a saddle that “normal” billets. But, in the interest of full disclosure, her saddle was built with her build in mind, so it is rigged for a short backed, round mare with a channel way forward, so that helps too.

Is it a miracle device? No. In fact, if her saddle is not fitting well, she will be quite girthy. Since she’s had this Baines saddle that issue has pretty much gone away.

One caveat – if they are put on backwards, they can actually be harmful. I’ve only had two horses get girth rubs ever, and one time only with each. Both were when a shaped forward channel girth was put on backward by someone unfamiliar with them.

The TSF girth is a very nice one – very soft and pliable, and I much prefer it to my County, which is the first one that I had that Buzz used, as he was built much the same way as the Princess.

[FrittSkritt]

I have the County Logic one for my guy, and honestly haven’t noticed a difference in girthiness… he’s the sensitive flower type that hates even being lightly brushed anywhere on his body past his neck, so any girthiness I attribute to the fact that he’s just a pansy. :winkgrin:

[Jealoushe]

I have the TSF girth and have found it is by far the best girth I own to prevent slipping. I love it for that alone.

[pacific_jumper]

I have been wanting to try the TSF girth for a while now, but have been debating whether or not it will cause galls on my horse. The only girth that doesnt rub her atm is a cheap fuzzy girth. Does anyone have any experience using these girths on very thin skinned / rub prone horses?

[no.stirrups]

subk, as a former physics teacher turned saddle fitter, I totally get where you are coming from. The thing about doing a study is that there are too many variables to consider, such as the degree of roundness or oval-ness of the horse’s barrel, how far forward of the billets the girth groove is, how high up on the horse’s side the girth attaches, where the attachment point is in relation to the widest point on the horse’s side, the angle between the billets and girth groove, whether it is a dressage or jumping saddle, and so many more that would be impossible to control.

With your mental experiment, the thing you are missing is that these girths are designed for a horse on which the pressure doesn’t go straight up the sides. If put on such a horse, one in which the girth groove is below the billets, it will gap in front and all the pressure will be across the rear as you suspect and as AutumnReign discovered. This is not the type of horse that the Shoulder Freedom Girth was designed for. On a horse that should use the SFG, it will lay flat and the pressure will be pretty equally distributed.

So the way I see it, the only way to know if it will work for your horse is to try it. I carry them with me when I fit saddles so clients can try them out, maybe you have a way to borrow one? or the Total Saddle Fit company offers a great return policy if you order directly from them.

[frugalannie]

Hmmm…sounds to me as if the old fashioned Balding girths (as I recall the buckle straps slid through a fitting at the top of the belly band to equalize pressure as needed) were way ahead of their time. We used them with polo ponies which were many and varied. Worked on almost all of them.

[CindyCRNA]

I have a Total Shoulder Relief girth and I absolutely hate it. HATE! It gaps in the front, digs in the back and the elastic ends are so stiff it’s like having no elastic at all. I am looking to rehome it. And I didn’t notice any difference.

[WNT]

I got a shoulder relief girth for my horse, as he has a long shoulder and withers and a forward girth groove. He resented everything but a fairly flimsy fleece girth. Even the fleece girth pulled the billets and pad a little out of whack and sometimes resulted in the pad being pulled down as we worked.

The SRG, even though it gaps a bit at the front, has been the best tolerated by my horse. The billets hang straight, there is no pulling at the girth loop on the pad, and everything stays in place better than any other girth I’ve tried. I don’t think it would work for every horse, but it certainly works for mine.

[sirensong4]

I didn’t like the TSF girth either. I actually never even put it on my horse, not only because the elastic was SO stiff/non-stretchy, but because there are two big lumps in the padding, against the horse, from said elastic–right in the pressure points that my equine massage practitioner has been pointing out as being “hot spots” on my pony filly. Also, as a PSA, if you get the “sheepskin” girth cover from TSF, it is SYNTHETIC sheepskin. It’s nice fleece, but certainly not the real thing at all.

[fordtraktor]

I too disliked the TSF girth because it was so stiff. The edges were downright sharpish. Maybe that is a good thing from your post but I think my girthy horse would have dumped me immediately.

I do agree with the concept of a widish girth and have instead gorgeous calfskin girths from Vespucci that are soft as butter but are also wider than a traditional “shaped” girth. Even my girthy horse really likes them. And on clearance from the Vespucci outlet, they were cheaper than the TSF girth. They sometimes have them still I think.

I think wider girths are definitely gaining in popularity, especially some of the dressage tech-y ones.

The SofTouch girth is reasonably widish and straight, and $15 from VTO. I use those a lot to school. My horses all love those, they are super soft. And hose and go!

[csaper58]

There is a wonderful thread in Dressage that compared/contrast all the S.R. Girths.

www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?480878-Spinoff-anatomical-girths-comparison

[bpolli]

I like the idea of leaving the withers free to move. When you look at horse anatomy it seems to make sense. So much of the equipment we use on our horses was developed back in the seventies and companies don’t innovate because they keep making money selling the same styles. Often the original developer behind a company isn’t even alive anymore and second and third generations are running the businesses so they don’t even have design skills anymore. I’ve actually been eyeing one of these girths - haven’t saved up enough yet but it will definitely be on my ‘one to try’ list.

[purplnurpl]

Forget true stuff girths. I just moved to a mohair girth. I feel stupid not changing over to one years ago. So much more comfy for the horses.

I can’t figure out how to copy the link with my phone.
Just Google riding warehouse and search for mohair girth.
I purchased the stillwater contoured mohair dressage girth.

[Corky]

I have two anatomic girths, neither the TSF brand but same idea. My draftX mare has a forward girth groove and an anatomic girth makes a noticable difference to where the saddle sits. The other mare is a tb/WB and doesn’t have the same forward girth groove. I still use an anatomic girth on her but I think just about anything would work ok on her. So I truly believe it depends on your horse’s conformation. If you have an overgrown pony who’s saddle gets pulled up onto the shoulder then try one. I have a custom fit saddle but this girth still makes a difference in the freedom of her shoulder and elbows.

[snowrider]

I’ve actually become really anti-point billets for this reason. I found several horses went better in a saddle without them and I didn’t need the shoulder relief girth anymore. One horse I still use it on as she seems to prefer it but I think it has to do with the location of the buckles more than anything.

[RolledAway]

I just got the TSF girth for my TB gelding with a very forward girth groove and so far so good for him. It allows me to place his saddle further back off his shoulder where it’s supposed to be while still having the girth lying in the right place. No complaints from my gelding so far.