Girthy Horse - Any ideas?

[Spudsmyguy]

My horse is really girthy where he pins his ears when I take it up, even loosely, but when I go to tighten it before mounting, he’s fine. He also swings his head around with a snarky look like he wants to bite me. I’ve had his saddle recently refitted for him, treated him for ulcers, and tried a treat so he’d look forward to it. Nothing has helped. He also doesn’t like when I brush his underside or get near his sheath, very goosy with pinned ears and swishing tail. I generally ignore it and just continue with what I was doing but this does seem like a pain issue. The girth is long enough that it shouldn’t be pressing on that nerve near the girth groove (forgive me for forgetting the actual name).

Any suggestions?

[NC001]

there are a few horses in our barn like that including mine. he has always been girthy. I had my trainer work with him while saddling up and it helped a lot. But of course Im not as good as her at it and the behavior comes back. He’s always been like this and only when he is distracted by something does it go away. Generally we dont see the behavior when we tighten in the ring for any of the horses with the issue.

[Scribbler]

I made a big improvement in my girthy mare when I started clicker training her to look away from me when I was tightening the girth. I also do a front leg stretch to make sure there are no wrinkles in her skin. Letting her eat while tacking up helps. I know that clicker training won’t over ride her being truly anxious or in pain, so I figure it’s just discomfort. Imagine someone coming in and forcing you into tight jeans and a belt.

She had very tight pectoral muscles when I started with her and hated being touched between her front legs.

Often it’s that first touch of the girth that really pisses her off, not the last hole. She also pins her ears when I let down the stirrups at the mounting block. And that does not hurt! So some of this is learned behavior.

[endlessclimb]

@Scribbler

Often it’s that first touch of the girth that really pisses her off, not the last hole.

Yep, same with my mare (but instead of pinned ears, it’s just a single tooth-grind). I think it’s that the girth is cold and stiff, and therefore not the most pleasant to the touch. I leave it loose-but touching for a few minutes to let it warm up, and no problems after that.

[Spudsmyguy]

Yes, it’s that first touch of the girth against his skin where he pins his ears. The tack room is heated so don’t think it’s cold but could be. I check to make sure there is no skin being pinched or hair being pulled in the wrong direction. He’s been like this since day one, I guess he’s just one of those where girthing is not one of his favorite activities.

[Foxglove]

@Scribbler suggested teaching William Tell to look away when I tightened his girth. Works well. Now he pins his ears and snaps at the other side of the saddle from where I am standing. Kind of funny to watch . . FYI when tied to the trailer or untied, William is non-reactive to the girth --only when in crossties.

[Spudsmyguy]

So how do you clicker train the head turning away? Inquiring minds want to know

[Scribbler]

First you need to “load the clicker” which means getting the horse to associate behavior click treat. The first thing folks usually teach is something like touch a target, then step back to wait for a treat. You can’t clicker train a horse that mugs the handler for treats.

Step back and wait is something they pick up on really fast as it’s part of their normal handling routine not a wierd new trick. They will start offering it, turning their head away and watching you out of the corner of their eye, it’s really cute.

With my horse I started clicking/treating when her head was straight forward while tacking up and then I would girth slowly and at each hole reward her for doing absolutely nothing. She quickly added on looking away. My verbal cue turned out to be a quiet shh shh shh that told her treats were on offer. We haven’t been that consistent and she’ll still bite the stall guard at times but basically now associates tacking up with treats.

I find clicker is personal to each horse, you have to feel out your own way with timing and intuition.

[Spudsmyguy]

My horse is definitely a mugger for treats. I have to continually reprimand him not to go for my pockets or hands when doing routine tasks around his head. I’m not sure clicker training is right for him.

[RedHorses]

My girthy horse vastly improved with the change to a Total Saddle Fit StretchTec girth. I chose a neoprene liner. He is not indifferent to being girthed but is much less expressive about it.

[Scribbler]

Clicker training teaches them to not mug if you do it right.

[Ajierene]

I rode a horse once that was girthy only when the girth was loose. I suspect the loose girth would tickle him by moving the hairs a bit but no idea - he also didn’t care to be brushed or curried there and we would often have discussions about how if he didn’t get so muddy, I wouldn’t have to curry so hard.

I did find that what helped with the girth was making it “solid” against him from the get go. I am in the general habit of initially putting a girth on really loose - so you can see daylight. then I tighten one side before leaving the crossties and final tighten just before getting on. With him, I would skip that first step and he wasn’t so bothered.

[NancyM]

I have one who displayed attitudes just like yours… I tried the ulcer medications that did nothing to resolve the problem, turned out to be intolerance to protein levels in feed (apparently). Took her off higher level protein processed feed, AND alfalfa (onto grass hay), and the negative response to girthing and grooming disappeared entirely in two days. It’s generic “gut pain”, classically from ulcers, but can be from other sources too. If you have gone the “ulcer route” without resolving the problem, try making some feed changes. It’s cheap, and easy.

[Spudsmyguy]

Interesting. I’ll give it a try, who knows, might work.

[Cabaret_SK]

It made a huge difference for the mare I ride to incorporate some massage of these muscles: https://practicalhorsemanmag.com/health-archive/loosen-tight-posterior-pectoral-muscles-in-your-horses-girth-area-with-equine-sports-massage

She used to have noticeable hard/ropey knots, and since being diligent with the massage is much better.

[outerbanks77]

What kind of girth are you using? It might be worth trying some different designs, sheepskin, etc.

My young mare gives me snarky faces when I saddle her, so I’ve been learning some accupressure points and just using the Masterson method of search, stay, release when she seems like she’s holding tension somewhere (that is her temperament). I also don’t do the full tack up routine in one go after grooming now. Instead, I do “energetic grooming” and then put on her saddle pad, and let that sit while I pick out feet, then I put on the saddle and loosely girth, give a treat, groom or do a little more accupressure, etc. until I’m satisfied that she’s not holding tension.

[Spudsmyguy]

I use a shaped girth but he also made snarky faces when I used a different non-shaped girth.

[eightpondfarm]

Wonderful timing reading this thread!
I’ve been training one of my mustangs to saddle. To date he has only had a saddle on him, no girth at all, and just standing still at a mounting block with a little pressure from a leg or my hand pressing down on the seat. And i’ve been walking him on lead with a surcingle loosely buckled, touching his belly all around, but not snugged. So today, my training plan is to give him a little more pressure with the surcingle belt. My hope is to (clicker without clicker…just GOOD BOY, pat/scritch and occasionally treat) introduce him to all around pressure in the same way he got introduced to a halter… (which is when i so much as show him a halter he comes over and shoves his snout into it). Goal is to have this strong boy rejoice in being tacked.

Always looking toward the end result of a equine partner that loves every bit of being a domestic riding horse. So many times we get these horses that were fast-tracked through the training process and the foundation, the building blocks of domesticity, were skimmed over. Every one of my mustangs has come as a clean slate, and training them has been the most wonderful experience. SO MUCH EASIER than retraining a sour horse.

edit: update
Steve earned about 3 carrots worth of bite size bits getting his surcingle gradually snugged today. one buckle one hole-other buckle other hole…walking on lead a bit then another hole up until it was indenting his winter coat and had no rotational slide. Think tomorrow will be a repeat then we’ll move into a girth on a saddle…(yay). Right now, i climb on him bareback lay around across his back and butt…scoot up his neck etc. Looking forward to saddle…but first the sand dummy goes for a ride…lol

[outerbanks77]

What about the material though?

[Spudsmyguy]

One I tried was neoprene and the one I use currently is leather.