GM Clinic at Persimmon Tree Farm

[Equibrit]

Maybe you should lobby this lot ?
https://www.mdhorsecouncil.org/about-us/governance/board-of-directors

[mmeqcenter]

@OverandOnward

If someone wants to organize a clinic featuring a clinician who has been banned by SS, and everyone involved is indifferent to any sanctions that come their way as a result of participating … what then?

Perhaps there are people who just don’t care what SS/USEF does to them for hosting/attending such a clinic. Maybe the possibility of receiving a scolding letter or even a temporary suspension doesn’t bother them. If suspended, they will serve it out and then go back to what they were doing before. Maybe they will even proudly brag to each other what sanctions came their way. Maybe they think that having sanctions applied to them personally are worth it for whatever good they expect from the clinic.

Sanctions won’t matter if people don’t care if they get them or not. Some people may not care.

The “United States Equestrian Federation” is “united” in name only. Not everyone is rowing in the same direction, on this and many other issues.

If someone doesn’t care about breaking the rules of an organization they’re a voluntary participant in, then they shouldn’t be part of the organization in the first place. If someone doesn’t care about getting a six month or year suspension, or about fines, or about getting banned, well I guess that’s their prerogative. Doesn’t mean the USEF/SafeSport shouldn’t still issue their penalties.

[vxf111]

@ladyj79

So he definitely wasnt at Aachen last weekend :lol:

It’s so weird that there are people who are like, no, it’s cool you raped children. Please teach my 12 year old a crest release.

Please berate my child and publicly humiliate him/her about a crest release (and some personal features too).

[SlamDunk]

@ladyj79

So he definitely wasnt at Aachen last weekend :lol:

It’s so weird that there are people who are like, no, it’s cool you raped children. Please teach my 12 year old a crest release.

Told you he would show up in Europe

[ladyj79]

@SlamDunk

Told you he would show up in Europe

He didnt…he was doing a clinic in where? Virginia?

ETA, apologies, maryland.

[omare]

Would not the FEI and or the show organizer recognize the usef sanctions so he would be escorted off grounds in Europe?(sorry if the has already been discussed how fei applies usef/safe sport bans)

[gottagrey]

@TheMoo

And yet every other country continues to produce the same level of riders without the hunter discipline. That was my point.

ETA: You asked why people are singling our hunters, it’s because hunter riders by a vast majority are kicking and screaming about this.

screaming about what? GM clinic at Persimmon Tree farm? or the “Stand by George” contingent?

Agree, and putting myself out on a limb here, but Europeans do seem to excel at producing top level SJ, and without the aid of a trust fund as many of the US upcoming crop of GP riders do. Over there some/many grow up fox-hunting so I guess that may qualify as starting off riding hunters :lol::lol: but there is definitely far more SJ there than US. Here most the Jr. riders are doing hunters and equitation. I’ve been to several shows in Ireland (small local stuff) and the kids and ponies are jumping around pretty solid courses, def not the cross-rail and 2’ stuff like they are here. I recall one show where the large ponies were jumping 3’6’ courses! In my neck of the woods, it’s hard filling 2’6’ classes at local shows now, 3’ forget it.

[gottagrey]

@omare

Would not the FEI and or the show organizer recognize the usef sanctions so he would be escorted off grounds in Europe?(sorry if the has already been discussed how fei applies usef/safe sport bans)

yes, if he was there but not sure if he can be doing a clinic in Maryland and going to Aachen Germany. And then there’s the issue of USA being on the banned entry list for Germany due to COVID.

[gottagrey]

@ladyj79

Ummmm…just so you’re aware Aachen hosts a lot of csis, like the csi 3* this past weekend. It wasn’t cancelled. Lots of csis are taking place in Europe and have been for a couple months now.

Also, the hunter contingent has been agitating to break off and form their own independent organization for some time. This predates safe sport. I’m surprised you haven’t heard it discussed before.

FWIW this is super funny cause it’s equal parts smugness and wrongness, and very aptly proves my point about the disconnect between the hunter contingent and the actual federation sport

The SJ last weekend in Aachen was a new event this year, I was referring to CHIO Aachen. While I’ve heard that some disciplines talked about leaving USEF (QH and maybe Arabian?) I’ve not heard anything about hunters. Certainly plenty of folks (in my circle hunters, jumpers and event ers) are grumbling about USEF over a variety of issues. As I’m sure you’re aware USEF recognizes breeds and disciplines - of those disciplines some are international and others national.

[TheMoo]

@gottagrey

screaming about what? GM clinic at Persimmon Tree farm? or the “Stand by George” contingent?

Sorry for not being clear. By in large the hunter crowd has been desperately trying to find excuses for GHM violating his ban and steaming about his ban as unfair. The push back hasn’t been nearly as much from other disciplines.

The misunderstanding of the rules at this point strikes me as curious. I don’t want to say “willfully ignorant” or the like, but there are resources, like Safe Sport itself, to get the answers to questions. At this point I think it’s disingenuous to come to CoTH with questions and when one doesn’t like the answer chalk it up to someone’s interpretation. I know you have emailed for answers to your questions so I don’t include you in my observations.

[ladyj79]

@omare

Would not the FEI and or the show organizer recognize the usef sanctions so he would be escorted off grounds in Europe?(sorry if the has already been discussed how fei applies usef/safe sport bans)

Yes, the FEI recognizes national federation sanctions.

[ladyj79]

@gottagrey

The SJ last weekend in Aachen was a new event this year, I was referring to CHIO Aachen. While I’ve heard that some disciplines talked about leaving USEF (QH and maybe Arabian?) I’ve not heard anything about hunters. Certainly plenty of folks (in my circle hunters, jumpers and event ers) are grumbling about USEF over a variety of issues. As I’m sure you’re aware USEF recognizes breeds and disciplines - of those disciplines some are international and others national.

I know what you were referring to, which was a misinterpretation of what I said.

The hunter contingent has been very very vocal for years about wanting to form their own organization not subject to usef doping rules specifically, and now safe sport figures very very strongly in their arguments.

I don’t know plenty of show jumpers arguing against the same protections for horses and children that the hunter community is so upset about, but as I’ve said for years, I fully support their creation of their own club with no restrictions protecting horses or athletes from abuse. Kick on, then the rest of us know who to avoid.

[TheMoo]

@ladyj79

I know what you were referring to, which was a misinterpretation of what I said.

The hunter contingent has been very very vocal for years about wanting to form their own organization not subject to usef doping rules specifically, and now safe sport figures very very strongly in their arguments.

I don’t know plenty of show jumpers arguing against the same protections for horses and children that the hunter community is so upset about, but as I’ve said for years, I fully support their creation of their own club with no restrictions protecting horses or athletes from abuse. Kick on, then the rest of us know who to avoid.

I don’t see anything wrong with supporting this. It’s what some want and it’s not a slight to support it.

[gottagrey]

@TheMoo

Sorry for not being clear. By in large the hunter crowd has been desperately trying to find excuses for GHM violating his ban and steaming about his ban as unfair. The push back hasn’t been nearly as much from other disciplines.

The misunderstanding of the rules at this point strikes me as curious. I don’t want to say “willfully ignorant” or the like, but there are resources, like Safe Sport itself, to get the answers to questions. At this point I think it’s disingenuous to come to CoTH with questions and when one doesn’t like the answer chalk it up to someone’s interpretation. I know you have emailed for answers to your questions so I don’t include you in my observations.

thanks. Trust me I’ve read the rules/policy for both Safe Sport and USEF Safe Sport though admittedly have not read cover to cover but posted here where I believe the area which I question. Please don’t think my questioning if Safe Sport/USEF jurisdiction covers USEF members outside sanction competitions as support for Morris as that is not it at al. Its for my own knowledge. What would happen if any of us participated in a clinic/activity with a SS banned person who was lesser known so we didn’t realize they were banned?

Honestly I don’t know or follow who’s in the “stand with George” crowd. I’m not one of them. I find it interesting how many “stand with george” but their social media posts outrage over people like Epstein, Weinstein etc. From what I’ve seen it seems to be a mixed bag of people defending him… but I guess I’ve paid more attention to the more well known folks\

[inca]

I am not sure it is accurate to say the vast majority of hunters want to be free from drug rules and Safe Sport. I think there is a vocal contingent but I would not consider them a strong majority. Lots of us want to play by the rules and don’t want horses drugged or minors abused.

[ladyj79]

@inca

I am not sure it is accurate to say the vast majority of hunters want to be free from drug rules and Safe Sport. I think there is a vocal contingent but I would not consider them a strong majority. Lots of us want to play by the rules and don’t want horses drugged or minors abused.

You are probably entirely correct. It just so happens that it’s not just a vocal contingent, it’s also a contingent that contains some very successful riders and trainers.

[TheMoo]

@inca

I am not sure it is accurate to say the vast majority of hunters want to be free from drug rules and Safe Sport. I think there is a vocal contingent but I would not consider them a strong majority. Lots of us want to play by the rules and don’t want horses drugged or minors abused.

You are correct, however the loudest voices and a good deal of influential want to start their own club. Or at least threaten.

[TheMoo]

@gottagrey

thanks. Trust me I’ve read the rules/policy for both Safe Sport and USEF Safe Sport though admittedly have not read cover to cover but posted here where I believe the area which I question. Please don’t think my questioning if Safe Sport/USEF jurisdiction covers USEF members outside sanction competitions as support for Morris as that is not it at al. Its for my own knowledge. What would happen if any of us participated in a clinic/activity with a SS banned person who was lesser known so we didn’t realize they were banned?

Honestly I don’t know or follow who’s in the “stand with George” crowd. I’m not one of them. I find it interesting how many “stand with george” but their social media posts outrage over people like Epstein, Weinstein etc. From what I’ve seen it seems to be a mixed bag of people defending him… but I guess I’ve paid more attention to the more well known folks\

Yeah no worries. I get there is confusion, but many who are confused hold on to it because they want to train with people who sexually assault others. That IMO is disgusting. As intelligent and as connected as some are, they still try to play the ignorant card.

[gottagrey]

@TheMoo

Yeah no worries. I get there is confusion, but many who are confused hold on to it because they want to train with people who sexually assault others. That IMO is disgusting. As intelligent and as connected as some are, they still try to play the ignorant card.

Well I can assure you I am not one of them. I know I’ve been a holdout on this rule thing but I have no interest in ever attending a GM clinic again and haven’t in can’t tell you how many years. Which I know seems quite odd given my posts but it’s the truth.:).

[skydy]

@gottagrey

Perhaps you should’ve read my post #193. It said I’d share the USEF email and eat crow.

I did miss that. Sorry.