GM Clinic at Persimmon Tree Farm

[omare]

Seems to track this:https://uscenterforsafesport.org/wp-…yperlinked.pdf

E. Aiding and Abetting Aiding and Abetting is any act taken with the purpose of facilitating, promoting, or encouraging the commission of Prohibited Conduct by a Participant. Aiding and Abetting also includes, without limitation, knowingly:

1. Allowing any person who has been identified as suspended or otherwise ineligible by the Center to be in any way associated with or employed by an organization affiliated with or holding itself out as affiliated with an NGB, LAO, the USOC or the Olympic Movements;
2. Allowing any person who has been identified as suspended or otherwise ineligible by the Center to coach or instruct Participants;
3. Allowing any person who has been identified as ineligible by the Center to have ownership interest in a facility, an organization, or its related entities, if that facility/organization/related entity is affiliated with or holds itself out as affiliated with an NGB, LAO, USOC or the Olympic Movements.
4. Providing any coaching-related advice or service to an Athlete who has been identified as suspended or otherwise ineligible by the
5. Allowing any person to violate the terms of their suspension or any other sanctions imposed by the Center.
   In addition, a Participant also violates the Code if someone acts on behalf of the Participant to engage in Aiding or Abetting, or if the guardian, family member, or Advisor of a Participant, including Minor Participants, engages in Aiding or Abetting.

[omare]

oops my link to USEF safe sport got flagged as spam!

[IPEsq]

@omare

Seems to track this:https://uscenterforsafesport.org/wp-…yperlinked.pdf

E. Aiding and Abetting Aiding and Abetting is any act taken with the purpose of facilitating, promoting, or encouraging the commission of Prohibited Conduct by a Participant. Aiding and Abetting also includes, without limitation, knowingly:

1. Allowing any person who has been identified as suspended or otherwise ineligible by the Center to be in any way associated with or employed by an organization affiliated with or holding itself out as affiliated with an NGB, LAO, the USOC or the Olympic Movements;
2. Allowing any person who has been identified as suspended or otherwise ineligible by the Center to coach or instruct Participants;
3. Allowing any person who has been identified as ineligible by the Center to have ownership interest in a facility, an organization, or its related entities, if that facility/organization/related entity is affiliated with or holds itself out as affiliated with an NGB, LAO, USOC or the Olympic Movements.
4. Providing any coaching-related advice or service to an Athlete who has been identified as suspended or otherwise ineligible by the
5. Allowing any person to violate the terms of their suspension or any other sanctions imposed by the Center.
   In addition, a Participant also violates the Code if someone acts on behalf of the Participant to engage in Aiding or Abetting, or if the guardian, family member, or Advisor of a Participant, including Minor Participants, engages in Aiding or Abetting.

Added emphasis in the original language. Aiding and Abetting is B[/B] facilitating (blah, blah) PROHIBITED CONDUCT (defined as various SafeSport violation conduct) BUT CAN ALSO BE (2) knowingly allowing those with SafeSport suspensions/bans to violate their suspension, coach USEF members or Athletes, and the rest of the list

[Toblersmom]

@trubandloki

Before I ask my question - I am going to say that I do not agree with this stable holding this clinic. I am not sticking up for the bad guy. I am simply asking a question.

@LexInVA Do the rules say that suspended people are not allowed to teach or train anyone or anything or do they say they are not allowed to teach or train at any USEF function?

As I read it (not a lawyer), in theory banned persons can coach/train people who are not affiliated in any way with USEF.

Pessimistic me says that the GM apologists et al n the hunter world will leave USEF and form some new organizing body without the international/Olympic movement connections so it won’t be covered by Safesport and USEF banned persons can do whatever the hell they want.

[Bent_Hickory]

@omare

https://www.usef.org/forms-pubs/YXj0…e-sport-policy

D. AIDING AND ABETTING Aiding and Abetting occurs when one aids, assists, facilitates, promotes, or encourages the commission of Prohibited Conduct by a Participant, including but not limited to, knowingly:

1. Allowing any person who has been identified as suspended or otherwise USEF.ORG EFFECTIVE JULY 1, 2020 || 9 ineligible by USEF to be in any way associated with or employed by an organization affiliated with or holding itself out as affiliated with USEF, an NGB, LAO, the USOPC or the Olympic & Paralympic Movement;
2. Allowing any person who has been identified as suspended or otherwise ineligible by USEF to coach or instruct Participants;
3. Allowing any person who has been identified as ineligible by USEF to have ownership interest in a facility, an organization, or its related entities, if that facility/organization/related entity is affiliated with or holds itself out as affiliated with an NGB, LAO, USOPC or the Olympic & Paralympic Movement.
4. Providing any coaching-related advice or service to an Athlete who has been identified as suspended or otherwise ineligible by USEF.
5. Allowing any person to violate the terms of their suspension or any other sanctions imposed by USEF. In addition, a Participant also violates this Policy if someone acts on behalf of the Participant to engage in Aiding or Abetting, or if the guardian, family member, or Advisor of a Participant, including Minor Participants, engages in Aiding or Abetting.

These actions of “aiding and abetting” are problematic when done by someone in furtherance of the commission of some Prohibited Conduct by the malfeasor. Prohibited Conduct is defined by Safe Sport as: [LIST=1]

Criminal Charge or Disposition

Child Abuse

Sexual Misconduct

Emotional and Physical Misconduct, including Stalking, Bullying, Hazing, and Harassment

Aiding and Abetting

Misconduct Related to Reporting

Other Inappropriate Conduct

Violation of USEF Minor Athlete Abuse Prevention Policies/Proactive Policies [/LIST] Some Prohibited Conduct (any of items 1-8) must be committed before finding persons culpable for aiding and abetting (such acts include those quoted above as D1-D5). No one has thus far articulated how or when or by whom any of the Prohibited Conduct has been committed in connection with hosting a clinic with a banned person.

[Bent_Hickory]

@omare

Seems to track this:https://uscenterforsafesport.org/wp-…yperlinked.pdf

E. Aiding and Abetting Aiding and Abetting is any act taken with the purpose of facilitating, promoting, or encouraging the commission of Prohibited Conduct by a Participant. Aiding and Abetting also includes, without limitation, knowingly: …

Now this is clearly different language from that discussed above. The language quoted here is from Safe Sport Code, published by the U.S. Center for Safe Sport, dated April 15, 2019. The language I was quoting above is from Safe Sport Policy, published by USEF, dated July 1, 2020.

[poltroon]

Here is an example of an aiding and abetting ban:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2018/12/17/taekwondo-coach-suspended-safe-sport/2338015002/

The U.S. Center for SafeSport has suspended a taekwondo coach who helped her husband evade a lifetime ban for sexual misconduct by taking formal ownership of their gym and representing their club at meets sanctioned by USA Taekwondo. USA TODAY reported last week that Gerald Murphy continued coaching at the same gym in Tallahassee, Fla., even after USA Taekwondo banned him in early 2014. He did that with the help of Gale Murphy, his wife and another coach at the school. The center issued an interim suspension for her on Monday for allegations of misconduct. In a statement, SafeSport spokesman Dan Hill said, “We don’t comment on specific matters but we do take the SafeSport Code seriously. Sport needs a radical culture shift to make athlete well-being its centerpiece; it won’t happen until every person, from home to gym, owns their role and champions respect.”

[Bent_Hickory]

The most recent version of the Safe Sport Code that I was able to find is dated April 1, 2020, and can be found here: https://uscenterforsafesport.org/wp-…e-04.01.20.pdf

This version states:

IX.E. Aiding and Abetting
Aiding and Abetting occurs when one aids, assists, facilitates, promotes, or encourages the commission of Prohibited Conduct by a Participant, including but not limited to, knowingly:

1. Allowing any person who has been identified as suspended or otherwise ineligible by the Center to be in any way associated with or employed by an organization affiliated with or holding itself out as affiliated with an NGB, LAO, HPMO, the USOPC, or the Olympic & Paralympic Movement;
2. Allowing any person who has been identified as suspended or otherwise ineligible by the Center to coach or instruct Participants;
3. Allowing any person who has been identified as ineligible by the Center to have ownership interest in a facility, an organization, or its related entities, if that facility/organization/related entity is affiliated with or holds itself out as affiliated with an NGB, LAO, HPMO, the USOPC, or the Olympic & Paralympic Movement;
4. Providing any coaching-related advice or service to an Athlete who has been identified as suspended or otherwise ineligible by the Center;
5. Allowing any person to violate the terms of their suspension or any other sanctions imposed by the Center.

This is not the same as the passages cited by @IPEsq and @omare from earlier versions of Safe Sport Code, and instead is entirely consistent with the passage that I have cited and discussed. So while I generally agree with @IPEsq 's analysis of the prior version of “aiding and abetting” that version does not appear to be relevant any longer.

[Bent_Hickory]

@poltroon

Here is an example of an aiding and abetting ban: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2018/12/17/taekwondo-coach-suspended-safe-sport/2338015002/

The U.S. Center for SafeSport has suspended a taekwondo coach who helped her husband evade a lifetime ban for sexual misconduct by taking formal ownership of their gym and representing their club at meets sanctioned by USA Taekwondo. USA TODAY reported last week that Gerald Murphy continued coaching at the same gym in Tallahassee, Fla., even after USA Taekwondo banned him in early 2014. He did that with the help of Gale Murphy, his wife and another coach at the school. The center issued an interim suspension for her on Monday for allegations of misconduct. In a statement, SafeSport spokesman Dan Hill said, “We don’t comment on specific matters but we do take the SafeSport Code seriously. Sport needs a radical culture shift to make athlete well-being its centerpiece; it won’t happen until every person, from home to gym, owns their role and champions respect.”

The article supports neither a “ban” (references only an “interim suspension”) nor a finding of “aiding and abetting” (references only “allegations of misconduct”). Further, the article is dated December 17, 2018, which is clearly before a material change to the language for “aiding and abetting” in Safe Sport Code.

[Gardenhorse]

@Bent Hickory

I would argue that many of you are reading the “aiding and abetting” policy too broadly. The policy states: “Aiding and Abetting occurs when one aids, assists, facilitates, promotes, or encourages the commission of Prohibited Conduct by a Participant, including but not limited to, knowingly … Allowing any person who has been identified as suspended or otherwise ineligible by USEF to coach or instruct Participants.”

My read is that Prohibited Conduct must occur first and then those that engaged in certain activities that “aid and abet” the actual malfeasor in the commision of such Prohibited Conduct would also be culpable.

In your example, the person who put on the clinic/owns the farm, etc., might be culpable ONLY IF bad things happened at their clinic. Or in other words, persons can put on such clinics with banned persons, but they may be held responsible if bad things happen.

With this reading, which is consistent with the criminal definition of “aiding and abetting,” there must be an underlying crime (or in this case Prohibited Conduct) for there to be “aiding and abetting.”

Of course, anyone contemplating hosting a clinic with a banned person should consult their own legal counsel and possibly seek a prior ruling from Safe Sport regarding the proper interpretation of their rule.

I don’t understand your confusion or why you are twisting yourself into a pretzel around this. It is directly in what you quoted. "Aiding and Abetting occurs when one aids, assists, facilitates, promotes, or encourages the commission of Prohibited Conduct by a Participant, including but not limited to, knowingly … Allowing any person who has been identified as suspended or otherwise ineligible by USEF to coach or instruct Participants."

Knowingly allowing someone who is suspended or otherwise ineligible to instruct participants is item #2 on the specific actions listed under Aiding and Abetting. It doesn’t say that aiding and abetting occurs if someone banned sexually harasses a participant they are instructing at your clinic, it says that aiding and abetting occurs when you let someone banned instruct the participants in the first place.

[poltroon]

@Bent Hickory

The article supports neither a “ban” (references only an “interim suspension”) nor a finding of “aiding and abetting” (references only “allegations of misconduct”). Further, the article is dated December 17, 2018, which is clearly before a material change to the language for “aiding and abetting” in Safe Sport Code.

Your own quote shows

2. Allowing any person who has been identified as suspended or otherwise ineligible by the Center to coach or instruct Participants;

It’s a clear violation of SafeSport code.

No one is saying that an aiding and abetting situation will typically lead to a ban FWIW. SafeSport has many possible actions short of a ban that they can impose. I would expect them to start with some very direct phone calls and some letters of reprimand, and escalate from there as needed. Their process can include both informal and formal actions.

Whether they will actually follow through and take action against those people is a separate question and it’s going to probably be a function of how reckless and dangerous they find the situation compared to their other priorities.

[Bent_Hickory]

@poltroon

It’s a clear violation of SafeSport code.

No, it is not “a clear violation” of Safe Sport Code. The language “allowing any person who has been identified as suspended or otherwise ineligible by the Center to coach or instruct Participants” does not standalone. If Safe Sport wished to make this language a standalone violation, they could have readily done so; but they did not. This language must be interpreted in the context of “commission of Prohibited Conduct.” Your interpretation strikes the “commission of Prohibited Conduct” making it entirely irrelevant, and further, inconsistent with: 1) “aiding and abetting” in the general understanding of criminal conduct which requires an underlying crime, and 2) the material change to the language in this section of the Code between Dec 2018 and April 2020, which I suggest eliminates any possibility of a standalone interpretation.

This is not some “pretzel twisted” argument; rather, it is an entirely reasonable (though clearly unpopular) interpretation of the Safe Sport Code.

[Bent_Hickory]

@poltroon

It’s a clear violation of SafeSport code.

No, it is not “a clear violation” of Safe Sport Code. The language “allowing any person who has been identified as suspended or otherwise ineligible by the Center to coach or instruct Participants” does not standalone. If Safe Sport wished to make this language a standalone violation, they could have readily done so; but they did not. This language must be interpreted in the context of “commission of Prohibited Conduct.” Your interpretation strikes the “commission of Prohibited Conduct” making such language entirely irrelevant, and further, inconsistent with: 1) “aiding and abetting” in the general understanding of criminal conduct which requires an underlying crime, and 2) the material change to the language in this section of the Code between April 2019 and April 2020, which I now suggest eliminates any possibility of a standalone interpretation.

This is not some “pretzel twisted” argument; rather, it is an entirely reasonable (though clearly unpopular) interpretation of the Safe Sport Code.

[LexInVA]

The Persimmon Tree Farm website is accessible again, with the GM Clinic info front and center. They might have been ordered to open it up for viewing, so the USEF could look into it.

[Bent_Hickory]

@LexInVA

The Persimmon Tree Farm website is accessible again, with the GM Clinic info front and center. They might have been ordered to open it up for viewing, so the USEF could look into it.

🙄 Or they might be giving the middle finger to the CoTH “SafeSport Legal Analysts.”

[mvp]

@Bent Hickory

These actions of “aiding and abetting” are problematic when done by someone in furtherance of the commission of some Prohibited Conduct by the malfeasor. Prohibited Conduct is defined by Safe Sport as: [LIST=1]

Criminal Charge or Disposition

Child Abuse

Sexual Misconduct

Emotional and Physical Misconduct, including Stalking, Bullying, Hazing, and Harassment

Aiding and Abetting

Misconduct Related to Reporting

Other Inappropriate Conduct

Violation of USEF Minor Athlete Abuse Prevention Policies/Proactive Policies [/LIST] Some Prohibited Conduct (any of items 1-8) must be committed before finding persons culpable for aiding and abetting (such acts include those quoted above as D1-D5). No one has thus far articulated how or when or by whom any of the Prohibited Conduct has been committed in connection with hosting a clinic with a banned person.

So you think that the “aiding and abetting” prohibition is a retroactive thing? I.e, you get in trouble if it turns out that Perp was found to have perpetrated an expressly prohibited crime? It was not written to close some loophole that would allow a Perp continued access to students-cum-new-victims?

If this is in your interpretation, I think you are incorrect.

[Bent_Hickory]

@mvp

So you think that the “aiding and abetting” prohibition is a retroactive thing? I.e, you get in trouble if it turns out that Perp was found to have perpetrated an expressly prohibited crime? It was not written to close some loophole that would allow a Perp continued access to students-cum-new-victims?

If this is in your interpretation, I think you are incorrect.

No that is not my interpretation.

[ladyj79]

It doesn’t matter at all about these individuals and whether they will be punished. That’s not the end or purpose of safe sport.

What matters is IF the participants and/or organizers are USEF members, then USEF is demonstrably NOT providing adequate protections for athletes, and USEF will be prohibited from fielding an olympic equestrian team. That’s the actual ending here if this is not taken care of.

[gottagrey]

@LexInVA

Coincidentally, the Persimmon Tree Farm website has been taken offline after this George Morris clinic came to the attention of the USEF. Coincidence?

Persimmon Tree Farm’s FB page is up and you can access their website via their facebook page. Many of your posts here are a bit over the top speculation. You’re also tossing Ken Krome in there - he’s not listed as the organizer and for all any of us know he may be off doing course design or judging someplace and disassociated himself with the clinic.

[ladyj79]

@gottagrey

Persimmon Tree Farm’s FB page is up and you can access their website via their facebook page. Many of your posts here are a bit over the top speculation. You’re also tossing Ken Krome in there. Granted this is his farm, but he’s off doing lots of course design these days, he’s not listed as the organizer so for all any of us know he might not have even had anything to do with the clinic at all.

Is it his farm and is he doing course design for USEF and/or FEI affiliated events? Cause that would be a huge problem.