GM Clinic at Persimmon Tree Farm

[fair_judy]

@LexInVA

Since the ban, a large consensus among GM supporters has been that the matter never went to court, so there’s no real problem with him as far as they are concerned. Another feeling on the matter is that because he’s (incorrectly) perceived as a Homosexual, he won’t be any threat to the multitude of young females who show up for his clinics. In reality, he is Bisexual, by his own admission, but has a clear preference for men over women, and has displayed the stereotypical “Gay Man” traits and persona that people associate with such individuals and he associated heavily with other men who were known to be Homosexual or Bisexual, so he’s been associated with being Homosexual for a long time. Then there are those who simply don’t care.

Hoping you reread this confusing post. GAY MAN traits? Are you kidding here?

[LexInVA]

@fair judy

Hoping you reread this confusing post. GAY MAN traits? Are you kidding here?

No. My point was that he acts a certain way that has given him an image and many other men have looked up to him for it. Why do you think GM apologists have often excused and defended his reprehensible behavior as “George is just being Queen George!” and defended him by saying that nobody can complain about anything he does or call him out on what he gets away with because it’s discriminatory or homophobic? Why do you think he’s held up as a “Gay Icon” by so many others, despite his reprehensible behavior and long-known history of abusive practices? He built a power-base for himself with that currency and it kept him shielded from scrutiny and reprisal for the last 30 years or so.

[ladyj79]

And because certain people incorrectly believe they are defending George from attacks rooted in homophobia, not understanding that they’re actually defending a man whose sexual preference is minors.

[fair_judy]

@LexInVA

No. My point was that he acts a certain way that has given him an image and many other men have looked up to him for it. Why do you think GM apologists have often excused and defended his reprehensible behavior as “George is just being Queen George!” and defended him by saying that nobody can complain about anything he does or call him out on what he gets away with because it’s discriminatory or homophobic? Why do you think he’s held up as a “Gay Icon” by so many others, despite his reprehensible behavior and long-known history of abusive practices? He built a power-base for himself with that currency and it kept him shielded from scrutiny and reprisal for the last 30 years or so.

.

…

I’ve know the man for fifty years. Gay icon isn’t something I would apply 🙄😂. The rest … valid.

[gottagrey]

@LexInVA

Apparently, this guy built and maintains their current site, which is why it’s so awful and low-key. It probably wouldn’t get updated or modified unless he does it himself, at their request. They have been using him for about 8 years or so and their previous site design was more modern and appealing.

http://wonderdogprograms.com/about.html
.The Clinic information, registration, and requirement PDFs were made by Morris Krome, who resides at the farm with Carolyn and is named as an owner/operator. In comparing what’s there now with the older PDFs, those files only seem to have the dates changed every year, before they are uploaded to the website within a few months or several weeks before the next clinic, to replace the ones for the previous year’s clinic…

.

Who’s “this guy” who built and “maintains” their website? And in all your research, you didn’t discover that Morris Krome passed away June 2019, so I’m not thinking Morris Krome had much, if anything, to do with 2020 clinic preparations.

the Kromes have been business partners with George Morris and both have trained with him and held clinics for many years. In their case, maybe as far back as 30-40 years, but I can’t say for sure. Their old website from nearly 18 years ago touted a long-time affiliation with him and a quote that praises their horsemanship, management, and instruction, so they have clearly been working alongside him for a very long time.

now the Kromes are business partners with GM? Having trained with someone and having them do clinics at your farm does not a “business” partnership make. Also a testimonial doesn’t mean they “work alongside” him or anyone else. It means the guy thinks they run a good operation.
Please stop posting these sorts of falsehoods.

[Equibrit]

Article of interest; https://horsenetwork.com/2019/11/wha…george-morris/

“Morris can no longer give clinics or coach USEF members. If a USEF member is found to facilitate clinics for Morris, they too could face a penalty or suspension.”

[ladyj79]

@Equibrit

Article of interest; https://horsenetwork.com/2019/11/wha…george-morris/

“Morris can no longer give clinics or coach USEF members. If a USEF member is found to facilitate clinics for Morris, they too could face a penalty or suspension.”

It’s so gross to look back at those comments and relive the dramatic cringy whinging of the I stand with sexually assaulting minors crowd.

[foursocks]

@gottagrey

Who’s “this guy” who built and “maintains” their website? And in all your research, you didn’t discover that Morris Krome passed away June 2019, so I’m not thinking Morris Krome had much, if anything, to do with 2020 clinic preparations.

now the Kromes are business partners with GM? Having trained with someone and having them do clinics at your farm does not a “business” partnership make. Also a testimonial doesn’t mean they “work alongside” him or anyone else. It means the guy thinks they run a good operation.
Please stop posting these sorts of falsehoods.

I agree that those conclusions seem to be an unwarranted stretch! Some people are good at finding data, but not very good at understanding or analyzing it.

However, there has been a close relationship for a long time with GM, Carolyn in particular. I audited a clinic with him there many years ago. I was with someone who had been in GM’s sights as a teen over a period of several months, tracked down at shows, invited to come ride at Hunterdon, etc., although my friend was clearly uninterested. We both agreed that the whole atmosphere at the clinic was a little too much like fawning over visiting royalty.

[Bent_Hickory]

@foursocks

Some people are good at finding data, but not very good at understanding or analyzing it.

:lol::lol::lol:

[LexInVA]

@foursocks

However, there has been a close relationship for a long time with GM, Carolyn in particular. I audited a clinic with him there many years ago. I was with someone who had been in GM’s sights as a teen over a period of several months, tracked down at shows, invited to come ride at Hunterdon, etc., although my friend was clearly uninterested. We both agreed that the whole atmosphere at the clinic was a little too much like fawning over visiting royalty.

The Kromes ARE business partners with GM and have held clinics there for many years. Anyone who has GM clinics on a regular basis is a business partner of his, as he doesn’t do clinics for free or out of the goodness of his heart, to help others. Diane Carney and many others who “Stand With George” are also his business partners, which is why they want him back in business, giving clinics full-time and making money for them, like he had been before. There are many references to “the annual GM Clinic” put on by the Kromes and others, out there on the Internet and the Kromes make it a point to name-drop GM on their bios and website, to show an association with him and the supposed “high quality teachings” he provided to them and will provide to those who pay the Kromes to attend his annual Clinic at their farm. The quote from GM on their old site was made in 2000, in reference to what he continuously saw from the two of them at their farm, because they are long-time associates. According to their own claims, Ken was under GM’s personal instruction as a Junior rider who regularly traveled to Hunterdon and his Mom claims to have learned from him too, likely as an Adult.

“The Kromes do it right. Rarely do I see the basics of riding, teaching, and training done so correctly and thoroughly. Added to that, their horse management is excellent.” George Morris, 10/27/2000

That is a personal endorsement of and association with Ken and Carolyn’s business, due to their long-standing relationship with GM as his students and business partners in his clinic business.

Anyone who says the Kromes have no personal and professional relationship with GM is simply wrong.

Based on what’s been uncovered about his post-ban activities and travels, GM has apparently continued to offer his services on the sly, in violation of the ban. He legally shut down his short-lived Show Jumper horse selling business, because he obviously couldn’t get away with it. However, his clinic business is still active and able to take in money, according to the business documentation filed earlier in 2020, by the business agent and accountant who serves him. The Kromes are just the only ones thus far who let it slip they are retaining his services.

[gottagrey]

@foursocks

I agree that those conclusions seem to be an unwarranted stretch! Some people are good at finding data, but not very good at understanding or analyzing it.

However, there has been a close relationship for a long time with GM, Carolyn in particular. I audited a clinic with him there many years ago. I was with someone who had been in GM’s sights as a teen over a period of several months, tracked down at shows, invited to come ride at Hunterdon, etc., although my friend was clearly uninterested. We both agreed that the whole atmosphere at the clinic was a little too much like fawning over visiting royalty.

I hear you - I used to make it my annual trek as often it coincided with WIHS. Some clinics were good, informative but the last one I went to his behavior was such that I don’t remember a thing horse related, just a slew of irritating uncalled for crass sexist comments/insults to several women. Pretty pathetic when that’s all you can remember from the great horseman right?

[gottagrey]

@LexInVA

The Kromes ARE business partners with GM and have held clinics there for many years. Anyone who has GM clinics on a regular basis is a business partner of his, as he doesn’t do clinics for free or out of the goodness of his heart, to help others. Diane Carney and many others who “Stand With George” are also his business partners, which is why they want him back in business, giving clinics full-time and making money for them, like he had been before. There are many references to “the annual GM Clinic” put on by the Kromes and others, out there on the Internet and the Kromes make it a point to name-drop GM on their bios and website, to show an association with him and the supposed “high quality teachings” he provided to them and will provide to those who pay the Kromes to attend his annual Clinic at their farm. The quote from GM on their old site was made in 2000, in reference to what he continuously saw from the two of them at their farm, because they are long-time associates. According to their own claims, Ken was under GM’s personal instruction as a Junior rider who regularly traveled to Hunterdon and his Mom claims to have learned from him too, likely as an Adult.

“The Kromes do it right. Rarely do I see the basics of riding, teaching, and training done so correctly and thoroughly. Added to that, their horse management is excellent.” George Morris, 10/27/2000

That is a personal endorsement of and association with Ken and Carolyn’s business, due to their long-standing relationship with GM as his students and business partners in his clinic business.

Anyone who says the Kromes have no personal and professional relationship with GM is simply wrong.

Based on what’s been uncovered about his post-ban activities and travels, GM has apparently continued to offer his services on the sly, in violation of the ban. He legally shut down his short-lived Show Jumper horse selling business, because he obviously couldn’t get away with it. However, his clinic business is still active and able to take in money, according to the business documentation filed earlier in 2020, by the business agent and accountant who serves him. The Kromes are just the only ones thus far who let it slip they are retaining his services.

OMG stop with this business partnership/association nonsense. Blabbing about GM “clinic businesses and 'business agent and accountant” Good grief. Many people who rode with Morris have become friends - friendships don’t make business partnerships or business associates.

I wouldn’t say that posting ad for a clinic on Horse of Delaware Valley is “letting it it slip” nor would I say Morris wandering around A rated show grounds during a show (I think it was Tryon?) is being “sly”. It’s pretty much in your face.

I need an intervention to stop countering these ridiculous posts. :lol:

[LexInVA]

I don’t recall saying that horses were getting loose on the streets and getting hit by cars, but that’s always been a possibility with WIHS. You are apparently referring to my post about what happened at the Columbia Horse Center and that horses have been able to get loose at WIHS, which they have and been successfully caught. There was at least one incident where a horse had to be euthanized due to something that happened elsewhere there.

[Moesha]

@foursocks

I agree that those conclusions seem to be an unwarranted stretch! Some people are good at finding data, but not very good at understanding or analyzing it.

However, there has been a close relationship for a long time with GM, Carolyn in particular. I audited a clinic with him there many years ago. I was with someone who had been in GM’s sights as a teen over a period of several months, tracked down at shows, invited to come ride at Hunterdon, etc., although my friend was clearly uninterested. We both agreed that the whole atmosphere at the clinic was a little too much like fawning over visiting royalty.

Your posts are so spot on!!!

[Janet]

@gottagrey

… Morris wandering around A rated show grounds during a show (I think it was Tryon?)

It wasn’t an" A rated show grounds". It was a (USEA/USEF recognized) Horse Trial.

[Moesha]

@gottagrey

I hear you - I used to make it my annual trek as often it coincided with WIHS. Some clinics were good, informative but the last one I went to his behavior was such that I don’t remember a thing horse related, just a slew of irritating uncalled for crass sexist comments/insults to several women. Pretty pathetic when that’s all you can remember from the great horseman right?

I rode with the Kromes for a long time and I always remember GM when he would come to the farm as being funny and smiling and nice to me - my one poor friend though had a different experience

[gottagrey]

@Janet

It wasn’t an" A rated show grounds". It was a (USEA/USEF recognized) Horse Trial.

thanks. I recalled his being where he wasn’t supposed to be …i think there’s a thread on here about it…

[gottagrey]

@LexInVA

I don’t recall saying that horses were getting loose on the streets and getting hit by cars, but that’s always been a possibility with WIHS. You are apparently referring to my post about what happened at the Columbia Horse Center and that horses have been able to get loose at WIHS, which they have and been successfully caught. There was at least one incident where a horse had to be euthanized due to something that happened elsewhere there.

It wasn’t about Columbia Horse Center, def WIHS, they even sent me a couple of tickets as a thank you when I corrected your false comment about horses running amok in downtown DC during WIHS.:lol::lol:

[IPEsq]

My interpretation of the rule doesn’t change whether the opening is 1 sentence or 2. Because all of the list of specific instances involve an already sanctioned person. So, there must be a presumption that someone already sanctioned under the Code should not be in contact with Participants (defined as USEF license holders, not just competitors at a sanctioned event), and to knowingly do any of those things that would put the sanctioned person in contact with Participants amounts to encouraging or facilitating Prohibited Conduct. I do not think that Prohibited Conduct has to happen to have a violation of the aiding and abetting provision when it involves a person already suspended/banned.

The list of actions would not make sense otherwise. It does not say aiding and abetting is hosting an event where the sanctioned person coaches Participants and also engages in another sanctionable action against one of those Participants.

[omare]

I have to agree with IPEsq, what follows makes no sense to read any other way. It also seems to plainly be there to prevent workarounds by suspended people.