Well, you won’t catch me taking out a loan for a horse but I do think the word “horse” is always incompatible with the phrase “sound financial decision” :lol:
[QUOTE=slc2;2881734]
So now Sydnor is an unethical judge?
The plot definitely thickens.[/QUOTE]
Those are YOUR words, NOT mine. My perception of the article is that she’s coming across very biased, and my curiousity about how she scores horses that might not have warmblood movement but who are genuinely CORRECT in their movement is sincere because I would really like to know.
yes, one person and one horse totally disproves the advice for everyone else out there. you will probably make it to grand prix on your $1,000 horse just like hilda did. you probably won’t burn him out and top out at 2nd level like the 9 million other folks who have tried it.
Again, not what I’m saying, and I’m really hoping that you’re not accusing ME of being someone like that, because I’m one of the LAST people who could ever be accused of pushing my horse too far and too fast. :lol: In fact, I’m probably borderline OPPOSITE of that in that I tend not to push my horse enough because I don’t want to risk injury, burnout, etc. I was merely pointing out that there are exceptions to every “rule” out there. But I can’t help but think that the whole tone of her article goes against how so many dressage people talk about how they want dressage to be for everybody and that it isn’t about winning and competing against other people, but about how you’re supposed to be competing against yourself and your previous scores every time you ride a test.
If that’s NOT the case, which is how this article comes across, well then, I guess the rest of us losers on horses worth less than $20K and with an average person’s bank account, may as well just chuck the whole thing and give up now, because unless we win the lottery, marry some rich guy, make a killing in the stock market, etc., we will never stand a chance to even THINK about buying the big fancy horse that she claims we MUST have, much less be able to afford to show it.
[QUOTE=Mozart;2881867]
Well, you won’t catch me taking out a loan for a horse but I do think the word “horse” is always incompatible with the phrase “sound financial decision” :lol:[/QUOTE]
haha!! you are right about that!!! My horse economics factors in all of the knowledge that I acquire with each horse, so even if, in reality I am losing money like crazy I am making GOBS of it because i am just learning so much, and thats worth a lot right?!?:winkgrin:
[QUOTE=class;2881757]
i am left wondering why people spend all that money buying race cars with big engines when herbie the love bug was able to win races himself![/QUOTE]
I love my Mini Cooper, so why buy a Porsche?
[QUOTE=canticle;2881910]
I love my Mini Cooper, so why buy a Porsche?[/QUOTE]
Because you’ll be a better driver. 
Sorry, had to chime in.
I don’t find the article all that off base or insulting. And my retired ottb eventer is making a career change to dressage and we are technically newbies to “straight dressage” competitions. Yep, I realize if I want to ride GP one day, I’ll have to buy a very athletic warm blood instead of hoping I can luck out with an OTTB.
Thanks for posting the article.
What’s the big to do over this?
You can teach any horse to sort a cow out of a herd…it’s going to take huge bucks to win the NCHA futurity 
Huge.
Remember the good ol boy that ran that utterly outclassed horse in the Kentucky Derby? Did that horse ever remotely stand a chance?
Buying your way to the top of the ranks, is just a fact. Because Hilda finding the jewel in the junkheap, isn’t something just anyone can do.
Aren’t these called NINJA loans?
No income
No Job
No Assets
I agree with not going into debt to buy a horse. My opinion has always been unpopular here because I cannot understand going into debt to buy some high flutin’ dressage horse. When I voiced that opinion a year or whatever ago, I got strung up to dry because “don’t you know you can’t actually be SUCCESSFUL with a yugo when you should be in a ferrari.” At that time I think the discussion had something to do with some chick paying $3,500a month or some such thing to LEASE a horse! :eek: Everybody was all for that then because it was a schoolmaster, and don’t you know how EXPENSIVE they are, and how rare, and how special, and how whatever… But then I don’t ride upper level dressage either so what do I know. So now the table is turned and everyone is slamming slc because she says to “get the expensive horse.” Sheesh, this board is so hard to please.
I swear this is the exact same conversation, except it’s slanted exactly opposite now. Then it was - BUY IT! Can’t do dressage without it. No it’s - DON’T BUY IT! Do the level you’re at and be happy.
Anyway - if a person has cash saved, buy it. If it’s 5,000, or 500,000, buy it. But if you have to finance it, then what the heck do you suppose you’re going to do when the horse colics and you have another 5 grand in vet bills? Or something happens your insurance doesn’t cover?
Or - what if you LOSE YOUR JOB!! Does your horse insurance cover that? :eek: Hopefully you buy an insurance policy for your loan that protects you if you lose your job? Is that available, or only if you die? And that’s another thing - you better have insurance to pay off that 75K gem when you croak, or your family’s going to be doing it for you.
If I lost my job tomorrow, I’d have enough hay and shavings in my barn to feed and bed my horses for an entire YEAR until I got a new job. I wouldn’t have beet pulp or supplements, but I’m sure I could hock some old crap on ebay to get enough $$$ for that. But if I were shelling out a couple grand a month just to make a payment on that horse - where is that money going to come from?!
Own a Better Horse
Don’t waste time. Ride the best quality horse you can afford.
That’s the title of the article. I have never for a single moment felt that spending time around my horses was time wasted. Anyone who feels that way should not be around horses imo. :no:
[QUOTE=katarine;2881960]
Thanks for posting the article.
What’s the big to do over this?
You can teach any horse to sort a cow out of a herd…it’s going to take huge bucks to win the NCHA futurity Huge.
Remember the good ol boy that ran that utterly outclassed horse in the Kentucky Derby? Did that horse ever remotely stand a chance?
Buying your way to the top of the ranks, is just a fact. Because Hilda finding the jewel in the junkheap, isn’t something just anyone can do.[/QUOTE]
The tone of the article is that if YOU, the average ammy, can only spend $5,000 on a horse, then you aren’t serious about dressage or riding, and that the only way to be so is to somehow get that $20K to $50K horse, even if you have to go into debt to do it. It totally disses anyone who realistically prefers to work with the horse they have/can afford, and just do the best they can with that horse. The article does not set itself out as being addressed to ONLY those with FEI ambitions. Most of us would acknowledge that she is absolutely right IF THAT IS YOUR GOAL , but she appears to be saying that anyone who is serious about dressage MUST have an expensive, purpose bred horse or they aren’t as good a rider, etc. Apparently, one cannot be a serious rider unless you aspire to FEI levels. Well, … we can all aspire, but many of us just work with what we have and are quite “serious” about our horses and dressage. Heck, I evented through prelim, did a few Intermediate combined tests. Had some pretty nice eventers that were probably capable of going further than I was. But I never “seriously” considered doing a ** or ***. Does that mean I wasn’t a “serious” eventer - because I didn’t have an imported Irish or English event horse?? Bleacch!! Whole article just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Well said Sandy M!:yes:
Well, I went into debt for my horse, and I STILL didn’t get a $20k horse. I got a $5k horse and spent another $7k in setup expenses to have that horse at home, and that’s not even for a barn yet!! :eek:
Honestly, I’d love to be “serious” about dressage and have that “serious” dressage horse, but I don’t have the time even if I had the money (because I have to work to have ANY money). I’m just going to have to make due with my “junk” horse that won’t go anywhere I guess. 
[QUOTE=WBLover;2882000]
Well, I went into debt for my horse, and I STILL didn’t get a $20k horse. I got a $5k horse and spent another $7k in setup expenses to have that horse at home, and that’s not even for a barn yet!! :eek:
Honestly, I’d love to be “serious” about dressage and have that “serious” dressage horse, but I don’t have the time even if I had the money (because I have to work to have ANY money). I’m just going to have to make due with my “junk” horse that won’t go anywhere I guess. :([/QUOTE]
Sounds about like my situation. Got an interest-free loan from a friend to buy a $5,500 two year old. He oversteps about 8" at the walk, so presumably Ms. Sydnor would approve at least that much about him - but probably not those spots on his butt…, and of course he was vetted. (Where did she come up with that as a bullet point - would anyone with any sense buy ANY horse for more than slaughter price WITHOUT having it vetted?). I board, so I didn’t do the outlay for setup, but I am indeed a 9 to 5-er, AND I’m paying monthly retirement board (and supplements and extra feed and regular trimming and shoeing and vet bills) for a retiree, as well as supporting the newbie from time of purchase as a two year old, plus colt starting expenses at age 3, and only now that he is 3 years 8 months am I getting back into the lesson/training routine. Extra time, extra money, the loan payments on a $50K horse…I don’t THINK so. I’m just thankful that my '88 truck (purchased used) and '93 trailer (also purchased used) are still running. To suggest I - or any ammy positioned as I am - go into debt for what is, to me, an uber-expensive horse (but that in real-world FEi competition would be a lower end horse) is just INSANE. Guess I’m just not serious about horses and dressage.
alternate article
Oddly, just read a similar article in Practical Horseman, except that it didn’t set price or suggest a loan and it also mentioned buying a horse “suitable” to your abilities. Not a great article but much better advice.
To go out a buy a $20k if you don’t know how to post is silly. To say that only the best moving horse will really teach you to be a better rider is silly. Which horse one buys and how much one spends should be related to skill and goals. I’ve learned tons of good dressage on a little morgan mare and an Andalusian cross, both well under the $20k amount. Both were built to do decent dressage even though the latter wasn’t a great mover to begin with. Because of them, I now have a pretty darn good seat, don’t use my hands to post, understand how to balance and influence a horse and can even ride a big spook and bucks. Should I have spent $20-50k to learn all that? Would it guarantee wins at shows?
Btw, the Andi cross gave me my first rides with Passage, Piafe and collected canter - and the morgan mare gave me glimpses of a canter pirouette. Can’t beat that for the price!
Yes, look for a horse suitable for the sport but don’t worry about buying the absolute best till you really have a need for it. There is so much to learn from the average horse that it shouldn’t be belittled.
I think that the biggest problem with this article is that Ms. Sydnor is a poor writer. Or at least this is a poor example of writing.
And I completely agree with Elegante E when she says:
“There is so much to learn from the average horse that it shouldn’t be belittled.”
Quote:
It begs the question : “Isn’t it all about the training?” Well, yes, it is about the training, but it’s also all about the gaits, the case of movement and how coordinated, balanced and athletic and dancer-like the horse is.
Quote:
You mean it ISN"T all about the training? (smacks self in forehead)…At least somebody was willing to actually say that…
[QUOTE=slc2;2878858]
I’ve seen people leap up in riding ability riding these better quality horses. The modern types are incredible to ride - a rider can sit and look far, far more elegant on one of these animals.
A friend of mine just bought a ‘very expensive’ horse and it’s UNBELIEVABLE the difference in how well she rides just in one month. This is not exceptional. This is how it IS, more often than not. [/QUOTE]
Uh, sorry, that’s not riding ability. I can easily feel the difference when I ride my ASB mutt vs. when I ride my friend’s WB, but does sitting on the expensive horse make me a better rider? I think not. I can get my friend’s horse to perform higher level movements, but does that make me a better rider? I think not. There’s more to riding than sitting there and letting the horse compensate for your mediocre ability.
That’s not to say that you can’t learn A LOT from a schoolmaster. Not to say that shouldn’t buy the best quality horse you can afford. In general, you should – especially if you have competitive goals.
IMO, appropriate challenges are the key. Buying a better horse to make everything “easy” may be your ticket to competitive success, but it’s not necessarily your ticket to better riding and horsemanship.
Not really. If you die and your estate doesn’t have enough assets to cover your debts the creditors lose, unless your relatives cosigned the loan.
If we would add typical expenses for a dressage rider…
6000 per year board
1500 in lessons/coaching
300 in gas and wear and tear expense getting too and from the barn.
300 in riding apparel and horse equipment,
500 vet and farrier expenses.
This adds up to 8500+ per year even if they are not showing.
In a 5 year period that adds up to 42500…10 years 85000 etc etc…you get the picture.
The purchase price of the horse at $20 000 is a small piece of the total budget…but the key ingredient to success at the sport.
I say it’s worth borrowing for it or saving a year or two for it if you are in a good financial position.
A good dressage prospect is a worthwhile investment. They can be insured and will increase in value with more training and show experience.
BINGO! Give that girl a cigar. Or, the horse of her dreams, whatever!
:):):):):)
I’m guessing even Hilda might agree that Keen wouldn’t ‘make it’ in today’s showring
