"Goes barefoot"

[JB]

This is a Dressage Forum, not a trail riding forum? What does that have to do with the cost of bread?

The fact that someone thinks horses who are barefoot can’t be ridden seriously is sad. “Ridden seriously” does NOT have to mean the upper levels of any discipline.
I guess everyone who comes into this forum looking for assistance on a variety of topics, from leg yield, to hoof care, to saddle fit, has to be a upper level competitor with a “seriously ridden” horse who therefore cannot possibly be barefoot?

The fact that most upper level Dressage riders have shod horses is irrelevant to this whole discussion, because the OP didn’t even say what level the horse was currently working, nor what level she was aiming for. And even if she’s aiming for FEI levels, but is only working Training, why should the likelihood of needing shoes once the horse hits, let’s say, 3rd Level, require the horse to have shoes now?

Yes, there ARE riders who chose to not shoe because of cost. If their horse is fine without shoes, why is that a problem? Why should they just “put shoes on and be done with it”? If the horse is not fine without shoes but just somehow manages, that’s wrong, and nobody here has ever said that is acceptable.

But don’t just assume that someone keeping their horse barefoot is doing it for cost reasons.

[Sandy_M]

Barefoot obviously isn’t for all horses, BUT…

Didn’t Shannon Peters recently do an extensive article about her FEI horses going barefoot?? So there’s a “big name” who’s horses work for a living and are not “backyard” horses.

Now trim, trim. Well, when I got my present horse and started riding him at 3.5 yrs., I had my farrier out. He looked him over and said, “He’s got good feet. Let’s go barefoot if we can, and we’ll see how it goes.” I did not REQUEST barefoot - my farrier recommended it. When he moved out of the area, I asked a friend for references for a new farrier. I called one of the farriers recommended and inquired as to how he felt about barefoot trims: not Strasser, not pasture - a barefoot trim for a horse that is ridden 5 or 6 days a week, a dressage “show horse,” and (hopefully) a trail horse. “Well,” said he, “I go by the cavalry manual.” Say-whaa??? He was semi-kidding - he’s a Civil War re-enactor. LOL When he was ill, I ended up temporarily with a (more expensive) barefoot specialist. She picked up my horse’s feet, looked them over and said, “Yup. That’s how I’d trim him.”

Yes, some people go overboard on the barefoot vs. shod question and imply you’re abusive if you DON’T have the horse go barefoot, but that’s the extreme. Not all can go barefoot, many can. But neither is “just shoe the horse and get on with it” a valid response - truly, “It depends” and/or “try it for a while and see how it goes,” is probably a better answer.

[Wirt]

[QUOTE=Sandy M;7251176]
Barefoot obviously isn’t for all horses, BUT…

Didn’t Shannon Peters recently do an extensive article about her FEI horses going barefoot?? So there’s a “big name” who’s horses work for a living and are not “backyard” horses.

Now trim, trim. Well, when I got my present horse and started riding him at 3.5 yrs., I had my farrier out. He looked him over and said, “He’s got good feet. Let’s go barefoot if we can, and we’ll see how it goes.” I did not REQUEST barefoot - my farrier recommended it. When he moved out of the area, I asked a friend for references for a new farrier. I called one of the farriers recommended and inquired as to how he felt about barefoot trims: not Strasser, not pasture - a barefoot trim for a horse that is ridden 5 or 6 days a week, a dressage “show horse,” and (hopefully) a trail horse. “Well,” said he, “I go by the cavalry manual.” Say-whaa??? He was semi-kidding - he’s a Civil War re-enactor. LOL When he was ill, I ended up temporarily with a (more expensive) barefoot specialist. She picked up my horse’s feet, looked them over and said, “Yup. That’s how I’d trim him.”

Yes, some people go overboard on the barefoot vs. shod question and imply you’re abusive if you DON’T have the horse go barefoot, but that’s the extreme. Not all can go barefoot, many can. But neither is “just shoe the horse and get on with it” a valid response - truly, “It depends” and/or “try it for a while and see how it goes,” is probably a better answer.[/QUOTE]

Boy, tough crowd here. My “shoe the horse and get on with it” seems to be my label now here. LOL
I am not here as a professional. Guilty about the chip. I have been called an opinionated ass before. I am sometimes overcome by a defiant oppositional reaction to things. Truth is, I do not understand the barefoot thing at all. I have had shod horses all my life, hundreds of them, and there was never a problem. I have ridden horses barefoot a lot too. Sooner or later, they end up sore, so I shoe them and they are not sore anymore. This internet thing gets strangely negative and personal. My apologies to those I have offended.

[rcloisonne]

So, none of the hundreds of shod horses you’ve ridden over the years ever went sore? Please let us in on your secret.

[mp]

[QUOTE=Wirt;7251325]
Boy, tough crowd here. My “shoe the horse and get on with it” seems to be my label now here. LOL
I am not here as a professional. Guilty about the chip. I have been called an opinionated ass before. I am sometimes overcome by a defiant oppositional reaction to things. Truth is, I do not understand the barefoot thing at all. I have had shod horses all my life, hundreds of them, and there was never a problem. I have ridden horses barefoot a lot too. Sooner or later, they end up sore, so I shoe them and they are not sore anymore. This internet thing gets strangely negative and personal. My apologies to those I have offended.[/QUOTE]

Eh. I took your comment as “if it seems the horse’s feet will be better shod, do it and see if it helps.” Which is pretty much my attitude.

However, I differ from you in that I don’t think shoes are the answer every time a horse becomes foot sore.

I started out with mostly shod horses. Now all mine are barefoot. Not because I’m a BUA advociate (stands for barefoot uber alles ;)) but because they do just fine without shoes and who need extra equine expenses?

If they didn’t or I began riding in a rocky area, I’d ask my farrier to put shoes to see if they helped. Pretty simple.

[Wirt]

[QUOTE=rcloisonne;7251360]
So, none of the hundreds of shod horses you’re ridden over the years ever went sore? Please let us in on your secret.[/QUOTE]

No they didn’t, actually. And it is not just my own horses, but the experience of others as well, so there is a lot of first and second hand anecdotes. But I feel for folks who have foot problems on an otherwise healthy horse. I can only base what I really know on what I have experienced. I will have to just take someone’s word for it that their riding horse went better, and grew a better foot without a shoe. When I come across a horse someone has been riding exclusively barefoot, and the thing is like iron, I don’t want to shoe it. If the riding matches the wear. I can’t get my nippers into those kind of hoof wall any way. Most of those feet look like mule feet, and they are usually on Spanish type horses, in my experience. But that is more genetic most likely. They are blessed with a horse with feet as tough as nails. But that is the exception these days.

[4THEHORSES]

[QUOTE=paulaedwina;7251156]
RE: This is a Dressage Forum, not a trail riding forum. With rare exceptions, dedicated dressage riders with high quality horses working at higher levels (showing or not) aren’t going barefoot nor are they out trail riding on rocks.

Oh don’t make me laugh…ah, too late. Listen 46-posts you have no idea what you’re talking about. If this forum was only or even mostly “high quality horses working at higher levels” there’d be sounds of crickets. Take five minutes and you’ll see that many skill levels and horses are represented here.

Paula[/QUOTE]

Lol, this one made my laugh too.

To whomever posted the original comment, few points to consider:

1. The very foundation of classical dressage states that any horse, irrespective of it use or ability, can and will benefit from solid basic dressage training. Responsible dressage riders/trainers/competitors should therefore support ANYONE who is interested in furthering their knowledge of the discipline, irrespective of ability. Even if it’s just by encouraging people to stay on a forum like this by not shooting down a perfectly reasonable question.

2. Even top dressage horses are still horses and can benefit from being trail ridden. If nothing else it aids in preventing them from becoming arena sour and plenty of them really enjoy it. Not to mention that lots of hill work helps them to use their back end and build muscle. Oh yeah, and some uneven terrain keeps them aware of where they’re placing their feet. Oh, and did I mention they enjoy it!

3. Just because a horse is involved in high level dressage does not mean it requires shoes. None of mine ever have. I would shoe if I felt they needed it however, they do not. Good quality regular trims do the job very nicely.

4. If you don’t feel the post is relevant to this forum how’s about this. Don’t waste your time reading and replying. Just move on to the next post!

5. Dressage people (amoung others), IMO, pay very close attention to their horses hoof care. So, seems like a good place to ask a hoof related question. Should be plenty of knowledge out there.

[Sandy_M]

[QUOTE=Wirt;7251325]
Sooner or later, they end up sore, so I shoe them and they are not sore anymore. This internet thing gets strangely negative and personal. My apologies to those I have offended.[/QUOTE]

Well, sooner or later… my horse isn’t dead yet…so I can’t say he’ll NEVER get a bruise or whatever, but he’s been barefoot for 7 years, under varied conditions, and has NEVER been sore. shrug

[candyappy]

[QUOTE=Wirt;7250359]
"As for the “benefits” of keeping a horse barefoot…it improves circulation, makes the hoof stronger, lessens concussion/shock to the hoof/leg…’

There really isn’t the data or science to back this up. Oh, there are plenty of studies to be sure. They are not as conclusive as the barefoot craze would have everyone believe… None of those things are absolutely true, or true all at once. The statement would imply that the reverse is true, That shoes will weaken the hoof, limit circulation, cause more shock to the leg. There really isn’t the proof that proper shoeing alone will harm a horse in any significant way.
The desire is to be “all natural” It is a craze. A healthy foot shod well will continue to be healthy.[/QUOTE]

I really agree with this. My first horse had shoes for 21 years 24/7 365 days a year. Why?? Because I rode the heck out of him every day and he needed them. I never had a problem with his feet or keeping shoes on. My horses since then have been a mix of front shoes only to barefoot. Sometimes it is the cost issue of shoeing that will have me try it on a new horse , but usually it depends on if the horse needs it to do the job required. As with so many other aspects of horse ownership these days hoof care has gotten out of hand and become a " hatfield & mccoy" kind of thing. Makes no sense to me at all.

To shoe or not should be based on the horse alone and what is best for him. What does the horse need( shoes , no shoes) to do what you are asking and to do it without pain. I am sure the horse will let you know .

[Dressagelvr]

The bottom line is that most horses will require shoes to stay sound in hard work (regardless of type). Some horses are lucky and have great feet and don’t need shoes, but they are the exception, not the rule.

OP, if your horse is fine bare, keep him bare, but listen to the horse. Be willing to put the shoes on if and when he needs them.

[katarine]

http://www.equisearch.com/horses_care/health/hoof_care/barefoot-dressage-with-shannon-peters/

[Kadenz]

See, I’m one of those people who had a high-performance show horse whose feet had always been shod and were just awful and high-maintenance. And I just thought “that’s the way he is.” Poor hoof quality, poor growth, soft soles, got sore easily, and we could hardly keep shoes on his feet.

When the horse retired, my farrier (who had shod him and kept him sound for 10 years) suggested we try to transition him to barefoot. That change, along with putting him on pasture 24/7, saved that horse’s feet. The hoof quality increased substantially; after 2 years his feet didn’t even look like his.

Barefoot and pasture did things for this horse that thousands of dollars worth of farriery, supplements, and veterinary care couldn’t fix. I wish I’d done it years earlier. :sadsmile:

So now, after having had that experience? No, I’m not likely to just slap shoes on a horse and get it over with. I know from experience that some horses really are BETTER barefoot. I wish I’d known that - I wish my trainer had understood that. And I definitely wish more farriers knew it.

[Kimchi]

My girl is barefoot it works out well for us. When riding on new terrain we go slow to make sure her feet aren’t soar but she does just fine.

A word of warning on hoof boots, I had mine fitted by the farrier but they still bruised her hoof (side to side) because they didn’t expand with the hoof, so hoof boots are not always a good answer.

I guess it really all depends. listen to your horse deiced what is best for you!

[Finzean]

My trainer’s GP horses regularly cool out on trails that aren’t manicured in the least - all of the retired FEI horses that now serve as schoolies are all barefoot and regularly go on trail rides down these same unmanicured trails…actually, I lied: 3 of the schoolies have shoes on front b/c they need them.

Good GAWD I wish I had a premium account so I could post some certified farrier-ing that left a mare useless for LIFE. Fool cut the heels off the shoe, completely squared the toe and then set the shoe back and filed off the front of the hoof…PERFECTLY HEALTHY HOOF ON PERFECTLY SOUND HORSE. So, please, whoever wrote shoes have never made for sore horses… What are you taking and where can I get some? Because some days I’d like to completely check out on reality and whatever you’re taking seems to do the trick. Sorry to be so snarky but give me a break…shoeing & trimming horses is all shades of gray…you seem as irrationally pro-shoe as the pro-barefoot people you dislike so much.

[JB]

Photobucket, shutterfly, free sites for pic-hosting

[Wirt]

[QUOTE=Kadenz;7251628]
See, I’m one of those people who had a high-performance show horse whose feet had always been shod and were just awful and high-maintenance. And I just thought “that’s the way he is.” Poor hoof quality, poor growth, soft soles, got sore easily, and we could hardly keep shoes on his feet.

When the horse retired, my farrier (who had shod him and kept him sound for 10 years) suggested we try to transition him to barefoot. That change, along with putting him on pasture 24/7, saved that horse’s feet. The hoof quality increased substantially; after 2 years his feet didn’t even look like his.

Barefoot and pasture did things for this horse that thousands of dollars worth of farriery, supplements, and veterinary care couldn’t fix. I wish I’d done it years earlier. :sadsmile:

So now, after having had that experience? No, I’m not likely to just slap shoes on a horse and get it over with. I know from experience that some horses really are BETTER barefoot. I wish I’d known that - I wish my trainer had understood that. And I definitely wish more farriers knew it.[/QUOTE]

Not to be continuing pain in the ass, but there is an error in your conclusion. You retired your horse, stopped riding him, and he began living in a pasture 24/7. So not a great comparison. Bare foot and pasture helped your horses feet, you say, but so did not riding him. Could you have accomplished your goals and shown your horse all those years barefoot? Maybe, maybe not, but you say your farrier kept him sound all those years, so there’s a plus for a farrier. Also a plus for even show horses living outside. (Who knows if some things are caused by the acid in shavings? No studies there) But quite a natural thing to do when your horse comes out of work. Pull the shoes, turn him out.

[Kadenz]

[QUOTE=Wirt;7251656]
Not to be continuing pain in the ass, but there is an error in your conclusion. You retired your horse, stopped riding him, and he began living in a pasture 24/7. So not a great comparison. Bare foot and pasture helped your horses feet, you say, but so did not riding him. Could you have accomplished your goals and shown your horse all those years barefoot? Maybe, maybe not, but you say your farrier kept him sound all those years, so there’s a plus for a farrier. Also a plus for even show horses living outside. (Who knows if some things are caused by the acid in shavings? No studies there) But quite a natural thing to do when your horse comes out of work. Pull the shoes, turn him out.[/QUOTE]

Wirt, you’re really not a pain in the ass. You’re just abrasive and overly convinced of your own righteousness. We’re not all morons here, despite your clearly-displayed belief to the contrary.

All I’m saying is that for YEARS AND YEARS this horse received the “best” of care, and his feet s-u-c-k-e-d. Many days we couldn’t ride because a shoe had come loose and taken chunks of hoof with it. Then for years we dealt with epoxy, because there was nothing LEFT to nail the shoes onto. There were abscesses and sorenesses and it was never-ending. I didn’t have the option of giving him 24/7 turnout while keeping him in full work and showing, so I can’t know (and neither can you) what the result of that would have been.

What I can tell you is that I turned him out and slowly transitioned him to barefoot, and got a happier, sounder horse with VASTLY improved hoof quality and versatility. I still rode him, but he didn’t do circles in the sandbox anymore.

My conclusions from my extreme example are that A) I won’t keep a horse stalled most of the day ever again, and B) if I had a horse with such poor feet again, I’d consider ditching the shoes much earlier in the process than I did last time.

We live and we learn. That’s kind of the point.

[Bats79]

[QUOTE=ThistleDewDressage;7248758]
The other option is to get boots for trail riding and keep her barefoot the rest of the time. That way you protect her feet on rough terrain but don’t have the maintenance of shoes and give her a chance to develop better barefoot feet. All my horses are better off barefoot, but I do know that some horses really do need them, I would discuss this with your farrier. Good luck.[/QUOTE]

That’s what I do with horses that are comfortable in the pasture and arena without shoes. I don’t trail ride on tracks that are so dangerous that boots aren’t safe and I don’t jump much so boots when needed work for me.

[Wirt]

“Wirt, you’re really not a pain in the ass. You’re just abrasive and overly convinced of your own righteousness. We’re not all morons here, despite your clearly-displayed belief to the contrary.”

That’s a relief. For a minute I thought I was a pain. Come to find out, I’m just arrogant!

[grayarabpony]

Writ, you’re barking up the wrong tree if you’re thinking there are true die-hard anti-shoe people who post on this board. Once upon a time maybe, but not anymore.

There are people whose horse might be fine after its shoes are pulled, but they don’t think horses everywhere should be barefoot; a good thing, since that would be silly. A lot of endurance riders do use boots rather than shoes though.