I have a barefoot horse. One time the farrier was in a hurry and spent under 5 minutes on her feet, still charged me $45. He barely took anything off, only about 1/8 inch off the toes in front and nothing off the back. No rasping or shaping or anything. Within a few days she was losing big chunks off her front feet, and I called out a different farrier who was highly recommended for barefoot horses. He explained that hooves are like fingernails, and if they are not kept trimmed/filed they catch and break. So the first farrier did such a lousy job that he may as well have not bothered. Obviously I use farrier #2 now and horse’s hooves are awesome.
For centuries we traveled on foot or horseback or via ox cart. In LESS than 100 years we went from inventing the automobile to landing a person on the moon. As JB has noted, technology is becoming lighting fast, and things are changing just as fast.
Example - when I was a kid there wasn’t even a thing called a “boot” for horses. Now, just in the last 20 years, there are dozens of them and they are being used in several different disciplines. Things changed THAT fast.
And I am NOT anti-nail (stupid phrase)…just trying to point out (what is to me) pretty obvious. But whatever…
Ever heard the saying “An idea whose time has come”? Sometimes the Idea comes before people are ready for it…this is obviously the case w/you and anything BUT traditional, nail-on shoes.
I HAS been done before – the Native Americans often used “boots” for their horse made of leather, for example.
Why not open your mind and explore other options? Why be so resistant to the possibilities?
[QUOTE=Wirt;7258138]
Why fix something if it ain’t broke?
.[/QUOTE]
I can only imagine what this world would be like if everyone thought this way. Just because YOU don’t think it’s broke, doesn’t mean there isn’t a better way.
Last example, because you can’t change minds as set as yours: this last year 4 of the top finishers in the Tevis rode booted (not shod) horses. PLENTY of endurance riders train/compete either barefoot or booted.
So, (obviously) if you can ride a horse for 100 miles over some of the worst terrain out there, boots “work”. Afew of the famous dressage riders are keeping their horses barefoot/booted and it seems to be working for them.
But again, you don’t want to see any of this. Your choice…
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;7258911]
I HAS been done before – the Native Americans often used “boots” for their horse made of leather, for example.[/QUOTE]
Yes, even further back, I have seen photographs of archaeological finds of “hippo-sandals” used by the Romans (and/or Scythians?).
[QUOTE=Sandy M;7258935]
Yes, even further back, I have seen photographs of archaeological finds of “hippo-sandals” used by the Romans (and/or Scythians?).[/QUOTE]
Yep, I was going to bring that up. Hoof boots actually predate nailed on shoes! That being said, the field of polymer science has also exploded in the last 50 years making a variety of plastics and adhesives very economical. I can see these becoming more widespread in the next 100 years but I don’t think boots are the new future of horse hoof care. They’ve been around even longer than shoes and still have some of the same drawbacks.
[QUOTE=gypsymare;7259024]
I can see these becoming more widespread in the next 100 years.[/QUOTE]
I’m not even sure WE will be around in 100 years, but that’s another topic entirely…:sadsmile:
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;7258911]
For centuries we traveled on foot or horseback or via ox cart. In LESS than 100 years we went from inventing the automobile to landing a person on the moon. As JB has noted, technology is becoming lighting fast, and things are changing just as fast.
Example - when I was a kid there wasn’t even a thing called a “boot” for horses. Now, just in the last 20 years, there are dozens of them and they are being used in several different disciplines. Things changed THAT fast.
And I am NOT anti-nail (stupid phrase)…just trying to point out (what is to me) pretty obvious. But whatever…
Ever heard the saying “An idea whose time has come”? Sometimes the Idea comes before people are ready for it…this is obviously the case w/you and anything BUT traditional, nail-on shoes.
I HAS been done before – the Native Americans often used “boots” for their horse made of leather, for example.
Why not open your mind and explore other options? Why be so resistant to the possibilities?[/QUOTE]
If you don’t stand for something you’ll fall for anything.
Anti nail is exactly what it is. Most will support all kinds of glue on shoes, as long as they are not iron and no nails involved.
The American Indian card again. The put leather on their feet because they discovered their horses got sore without something on their feet, and they had a lot of leather, and not much iron. Do you think for a minute they wouldn’t have put iron on, if they thought for a minute they could fight battles better, and get somewhere further? I am sure exemplary hoof care was on top of their priorities.
Some things change fast because people are generally like sheep.
You do realized you guys make this easy. I really don’t shoe everything I see. I actually ride quite a few young horses barefoot. Mostly because I’m lazy…
I also meant to point out, that if you fly in the face of conventional wisdom, you are considered open-minded and progressive. What happens when barefoot becomes the conventional wisdom, as you foresee? I guess you’ll be close-minded, conservative and backwards!
[QUOTE=gypsymare;7259024]
Yep, I was going to bring that up. Hoof boots actually predate nailed on shoes! That being said, the field of polymer science has also exploded in the last 50 years making a variety of plastics and adhesives very economical. I can see these becoming more widespread in the next 100 years but I don’t think boots are the new future of horse hoof care. They’ve been around even longer than shoes and still have some of the same drawbacks.[/QUOTE]
Hoof boot design has improved too, which has successfully addressed what I thought was one of the biggest problems with boots, which was that they didn’t stay on very well. They still don’t (IMO) stay on as well as shoes, but have improved enough that they’re a lot more useful than they were.
Now if someone would just make a boot to fit mule hooves then I’d probably never need to nail on another shoe again.
[QUOTE=Wirt;7259059]
Anti nail is exactly what it is. Most will support all kinds of glue on shoes, as long as they are not iron and no nails involved.[/QUOTE]
Glue ons have the same problem as nailed on shoes. They protect the hoof all the time so it gets weaker and then the peripheral loading causes dropped soles and running out. The advantage to glue ones though, is that they can be removed when not needed without having to put more nail holes in the hoof when they’re needed again. So they’re kind of a compromise between shoes and boots, because they can be removed and reapplied more often than shoes, but not as often as boots.
Or I guess there’s no reason that glue ons couldn’t be applied and removed just as often, but it would be a lot more expensive in both time and materials.
“Glue ons have the same problem as nailed on shoes. They protect the hoof all the time so it gets weaker and then the peripheral loading causes dropped soles and running out.”
And there you have it. That is the kind of blanket oversimplified statement that gets repeated over and over until everyone believes it absolutely true, which it isn’t. So shoeing causes hoofs to get weaker and dropped soles, period. Baaah. And you can say “peripheral loading”. I need another drink…
[QUOTE=Wirt;7259093]
I also meant to point out, that if you fly in the face of conventional wisdom, you are considered open-minded and progressive. What happens when barefoot becomes the conventional wisdom, as you foresee? I guess you’ll be close-minded, conservative and backwards![/QUOTE]
But you keep proclaiming that nail on shoes are the ONLY way to go…when that is obviously incorrect. So if you are calling ME closed minded, that must be the pot speaking (and I don’t mean the smoke-able kind).
I spent over a decade on the track and saw plenty of horses who couldn’t hold a shoe because their feet were so brittle. You can’t tell me you haven’t seen the same.
So if there had been another option for hoof protection, don’t you think that would have been better for the horse?
No, Indians used leather because Easy Boots hadn’t been invented yet…
As far as “conventional wisdom” currently dictating the nail-on metal shoes are the best for all horse…Wirt, you need to bone up on your research…
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;7250196]
Most of my “barefoot” experience comes for the endurance world. It is true the horse doesn’t wear shoes all the time. But if the footing is rough or the horse needs them, they were boots of some style.
I wish people would finally “get” that “barefoot” doesn’t always mean going without any protection…it just means not wearing nail-on shoes. It’s not an “either or” choice.
[/QUOT
Really great of of describing barefoot. I do endurance with a barefoot/booted horse and one of the reasons I have kept her barefoot is that it gives me alot more options on a day to day basis than shoeing does
Ie:
Going for a sandy beach ride = no hoof protection needed
Quick trip to the forest = don’t need the boots
Longer conditioning ride on good footing = might toss on front boots
Endurance ride that I know has lots of gravel =" princess boots"( epics w/ pads)
Muddy ride= boots with studs
I also like that I can make quick, minor adjustments to her trim as necessary ( take down the heels a bit, roll the toe,etc). This keeps her hoof angles more consistant than is (just in my experience) possible with shoeing/any form of hoof care that is done a 6-8 week cycle.
[QUOTE=Wirt;7259267]
And there you have it. That is the kind of blanket oversimplified statement that gets repeated over and over until everyone believes it absolutely true, which it isn’t. So shoeing causes hoofs to get weaker and dropped soles, period. Baaah. And you can say “peripheral loading”. I need another drink…[/QUOTE]
So have one, but the reason “everyone” believes that it’s true is because it’s measurable.
I currently have three ponies and pony crosses that are barefoot. My 15’2 Connemara/TB mare has freakishly good feet and has competed up to Prelim barefoot, and I only briefly had shoes on her last year so I could take her to a few events on grass that required studs to run safely. Her feet are large, don’t chip or crack, and she has tons of digital cushion. OTOH, many horses can’t go comfortably on all surfaces, so either boots or shoes help them.
[QUOTE=kande04;7259507]
So have one, but the reason “everyone” believes that it’s true is because it’s measurable.[/QUOTE]
And for all of the shod horses whose soles are perfectly healthy (not “dropped”) and toes are NOT run forward, there is nothing for “everyone” to measure.
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;7259369]
But you keep proclaiming that nail on shoes are the ONLY way to go…when that is obviously incorrect. So if you are calling ME closed minded, that must be the pot speaking (and I don’t mean the smoke-able kind).
I spent over a decade on the track and saw plenty of horses who couldn’t hold a shoe because their feet were so brittle. You can’t tell me you haven’t seen the same.
So if there had been another option for hoof protection, don’t you think that would have been better for the horse?
No, Indians used leather because Easy Boots hadn’t been invented yet…
As far as “conventional wisdom” currently dictating the nail-on metal shoes are the best for all horse…Wirt, you need to bone up on your research…[/QUOTE]
I don’t think I ever said that nail on shoes are the only way to go. What I am saying is that the majority of the arguments against nail on shoes as harmful to horses with healthy feet are bogus. I have done some research. All the so called studies I have read come from the original motivation to find what is wrong with nailing on iron shoes and they won’t stop until they can find something, anything. They are suspect to begin with.
I do not like people with normal horses with normal feet being scared into not shoeing because of people spouting the typical barefoot bs.
When I discover personally that my shoeing is hurting horses, and causing lameness. and preventing the horse from being ridden, I will do something else. I have many horses that I have been shoeing for fifteen years. They event. They are fine. So I go with what I have personally experienced and witnessed. My experience is that horses with crappy feet were usually born with crappy feet, so whatever you try and do is a crap shoot anyway.
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;7259369]
But you keep proclaiming that nail on shoes are the ONLY way to go…when that is obviously incorrect. So if you are calling ME closed minded, that must be the pot speaking (and I don’t mean the smoke-able kind).
I spent over a decade on the track and saw plenty of horses who couldn’t hold a shoe because their feet were so brittle. You can’t tell me you haven’t seen the same.
So if there had been another option for hoof protection, don’t you think that would have been better for the horse?
No, Indians used leather because Easy Boots hadn’t been invented yet…
As far as “conventional wisdom” currently dictating the nail-on metal shoes are the best for all horse…Wirt, you need to bone up on your research…[/QUOTE]
I don’t think I ever said that nail on shoes are the only way to go. What I am saying is that the majority of the arguments against nail on shoes as harmful to horses with healthy feet are bogus. I have done some research. All the so called studies I have read come from the original motivation to find what is wrong with nailing on iron shoes and they won’t stop until they can find something, anything. They are suspect to begin with.
I do not like people with normal horses with normal feet being scared into not shoeing because of people spouting the typical barefoot bs.
When I discover personally that my shoeing is hurting horses, and causing lameness. and preventing the horse from being ridden, I will do something else. I have many horses that I have been shoeing for fifteen years. They event. They are fine. So I go with what I have personally experienced and witnessed. My experience is that horses with crappy feet were usually born with crappy feet, so whatever you try and do is a crap shoot anyway.
Could someone point me to the study that shows increased lateral loading of the shod hoof? I’d be curious see what measurement methods were used. I don’t expect that it would show a huge increase over the bare foot. The average horse shoe is about 1/4 inch high. The hoof wall is generally taken lower when shoeing, flush with live sole. A bare hoof is ideally left a bit longer.
Average arena footing is yielding and approximately 2-4 inches deep. Likewise with stall bedding. Both deform and support the sole and frog. Unless your fields are rock hard and dry, vegetation and soil will also conform to the bottom of the hoof. The only time the sole is not supported would be on concrete or asphalt. How many of us routinely work on such surfaces?
Just pulled my younger TBs front shoes today. She has great hoof shape, but thin walls. I’m hoping they hold up. It sure is cheaper and easier to keep her bare but if she is sore, I’m not going to let her suffer.
Why is it such a big deal to do what a horse needs?
Now, allow me to explain. I keep most of my horses barefoot, out of convenience and for financial reasons. If the horse doesn’t absolutely need the shoes, I don’t want to pay the farrier an extra $50+ for them. But, if my horse’s feet were wearing down too much due to heavy work load, or if I needed to ride on really tough/rocky footing for an extended period of time, or doing a high level of work in which the horse needs additional traction or support, I would not hesitate to shoe. I have a mare right now that has to be kept shod in front due to caudal heel pain syndrome. If she were allowed to go barefoot, her feet would not break over at the point she needs in order to remain sound. Perhaps some day she might be able to go barefoot, but I would need to be really confident she’d be able to handle it.
OP - only you can decide whether your horse is comfortable or not being barefoot doing what you need it to coin the footing that is available. Get yourself a knowledgeable farrier who will be able to do a good job with either trims or shoeing. And that means educating yourself at least a little in all areas of farriery in order to be able to understand what he or she is telling you, and being able to evaluate their work (and see if they are trying to blow smoke where the sun don’t shine).
