Going back to shoes -advice?

[tpup]

Due to lameness issues, ring condition issues and thin soles (reacting positive to hoof testers), my vet practice (2 very good lameness vets) are recommending that I shoe my horse. He has been barefoot 1.5 yrs. Was shod when I got him but feet were in terrible condition. I asked about using boots for ring/trails (I have Easyboots), but vet really feels shoes will make him more comfortable all around and in his field too and help with his movement and other issues…he is also thinking ahead to hard, dry summers and was not high on boots because it’s not practical for me to turn him out in the easyboots. Vet feels all 4 shod will help him - that after being barefoot this long, his soles should be harder - he feels it’s just an anatomical thing with him - he is older, arthritic hocks and other issues I’ve posted about recently with videos.

Have to admit I have gone back and forth about this for a while. Our ring is rocky. Other ring is bluestone. He clearly veers to grass when he can (up driveway, on outer edges of rings - goes along fence when he can…)

Another option I have is to use Perfect Hoof Wear again - we did few cycles last year and he was very happy in them, but the tended to last only 3-4 weeks max. Best we got once was 5 weeks.

What do I need to know about adjustment period, soreness going barefoot to shod? Will he be sore?

And should I do just fronts to start, or all 4? When I got him he only had shoes in front…although has thin soles on all 4.

Would love thoughts and opinions - this isn’t a barefoot vs. shod debate - I really want to do what’s best for my horse and will shoe if it will help him.

[marta]

tpup

last spring i made a decision to put shoes back on my mare for competition. for years we tried competing in boots with more or less success. more and more of the rides i wanted to attend were held in rocky terrain and my mare, like your horse, has thin soles. so with the blessing of my trimmer, i put her in shoes and pads. there was no adjustment period. no different than had she simply gotten a trim or a set of boots put on her.

i know several other folks in distance riding that put shoe for competitions only.

i think you’ll be fine.

i hope it helps your boy.
we stopped competing due to a suspensory injury and she’s been bare since last summer but in a couple of weeks we are going to try epona shoes on her and i’m really excited to see if her comfort level improves and also how they affect her hoof structure.

[LMH]

Obviously the choice is yours.

I would personally assess the trim first-thin soles screams long forward toes to me.

I would also take a good look at the bars. I am learning improper bar form has a bigger impact than I originally thought.

Proper hoof form is a MUST for higher demands like harder ground or high performance.

Be prepared now-this thread will get ugly.

It will be ok though.

[JHUshoer20]

[QUOTE=tpup;3953856]

What do I need to know about adjustment period, soreness going barefoot to shod? Will he be sore?[/QUOTE] Not at all. You should see an immediate improvement

And should I do just fronts to start, or all 4? When I got him he only had shoes in front…although has thin soles on all 4.
Thats up to you and how much you use the horse, type of ground and such. Remember that wherever fronts go hinds follow. Sounds like your vet is pretty good so most importantly I’d trust your vet and follow their recommendations.
George

[bird4416]

There really isn’t much of an adjustment going back to shoes. The horse will probably just be more comfortable. I have a friend who went through this with her horse. After several years of being barefoot and sore, she put shoes back on (albeit, special shoes and pads, horse had multiple issues). The horse was immediately better and has been very comfortable ever since. (Its been at least a year now maybe longer) Some horses just do better in shoes.

[mvp]

I think you will be happy…with a good farrier

Thin soles and an effort to slow ringbone (did I get that right?) are a fine recipe for shoes.

Unless your horse is a princess, I don’t think you will see any reaction but perhaps immediate relief for his soles. Slap 'em on!

That having been said, you would perhaps do well to present your horse’s issues to a competent farrier rather than just showing up with just your vet’s prescription for him to execute.

In my experience, vets do understand the basic biomechanics of horse shoeing. They know that changing the angle of the hoof, the position and shape of the shoe change the relationship between bone, tendons and ligaments all the way up the leg. But really good farriers also think about shoeing for the long term, where solving one biomechanical problem might slowly induce another.

I always bring my vet’s interpretations of some soundness problems, radiographs and shoeing recommendations to my farrier. Then I ask him what he would do and why. After that, we try out one shoeing plan and see how it goes with the understanding that we can (slowly) modify it later.

The part of this post that will certainly draw fire:

The one general thing you get from shoeing that you cannot get so easily from barefoot trimming alone is the ability to determine and control (to an extent) the shape of your horse’s hoof capsule. That’s for better and for worse, of course, but it is the one thing you can do to reorient the phelanges (all three pastern bones) in a way that slows the progression of osteoarthritis between them.

[irishcas]

[QUOTE=marta;3953869]

i hope it helps your boy.
we stopped competing due to a suspensory injury and she’s been bare since last summer but in a couple of weeks we are going to try epona shoes on her and i’m really excited to see if her comfort level improves and also how they affect her hoof structure.[/QUOTE]

I’ll be the one shoeing her WOOHOOO… I’m excited to see what happens too.

My shoeing dog and pony show is going on the road.

Kim

[kcmel]

I’m probably going to do the same thing–go back to shoes after 2 years bare. His soles are looking much better, but he has had chronic abscessing the last 2 summers and I want to see if shoes/pads helps. (Yes, he was tested for IR and his glucose and insulin levels were fine).

[irishcas]

[QUOTE=kcmel;3954046]
I’m probably going to do the same thing–go back to shoes after 2 years bare. His soles are looking much better, but he has had chronic abscessing the last 2 summers and I want to see if shoes/pads helps. (Yes, he was tested for IR and his glucose and insulin levels were fine).[/QUOTE]

Not to be a druggy pushing my drug of choice. But checkout www.eponashoe.com. I like what they are achieving using the shoes/impression material way better than metal/al shoes.

Ground Controls are good too, but if your horse needs more rigidity the Epona’s are the way to go.

You have a Epona person in PA, Daisy Bickering. Her website is daisyhavenfarm.com

I know the Guys will get all up in arms over my saying that. But I believe it so therefore it must be true In my world anyway.

Good luck, hope you get the healing your horse needs.

My Epona experiment with Finn is still going strong and well at that. I rode him Saturday for 3 hours and Sunday for 4. He is getting skinner and muscling up nicely. All the fat pads are gone.

I am using the Easycare Gloves on the hinds, but I don’t think they are providing enough support. I’m going to shoe the hinds again this weekend.

I put Epona’s on Murray’s front feet last week, during our annual American Hoof Association conference and his comfort was improved as soon as we set the second shod foot down. You can see it in his back, and his stance how much happier he was.

I put more pix up in my Photobucket album. http://s277.photobucket.com/albums/kk64/irishcas/Eponas/ This is the main album, just click on any of the sub albums to see the different projects.

Sorry to hijack your thread tpup, but it is about shoeing and I didn’t try and talk you out of it

Good luck tpup. Make sure you have a really good farrier or it isn’t worth it.

Kim

[LMH]

As I said, if the hoof form is poor, the horse will likely be more comfortable in shoes.

That does not mean the horse can not be comfy bare with correct hoof form.

If I hear a horse immediately is more comfy in shoes, I am very curious how the hoof health/form is before the shoes was applied.

Unhealthy hooves, hooves with poor form will improve with shoes-all that means is you had an unhealthy foot before the shoe was applied.

The bigger question is whether the person providing the hoof care for your horse recognizes correct hoof form and healthy and can create a program to improve what is lacking.

[irishcas]

@LMH;3954085

If I hear a horse immediately is more comfy in shoes, I am very curious how the hoof health/form is before the shoes was applied.

Of course poor trimming whether bare or shod is critical. As is diet.

If diet, hoofcare and whole horse health is the best it can be and still you have issues, then keep searching.

If shoes for a few months provide relief, then you have done the right thing.

Kim - who is off to trail ride her sound (correct trim, correct diet) shod in front happy, healthy horse

[irishcas]

@tpup;3953856

Another option I have is to use Perfect Hoof Wear again - we did few cycles last year and he was very happy in them, but the tended to last only 3-4 weeks max. Best we got once was 5 weeks.

I tried this on my horse and a number of clients, I was able to get 5 and 6 weeks when horses were in pasture. Only 2 if ridden and that was at a slow walk. I also prefer the original products by Dave Richards, not KC’s modified ones. www.equicast.us

But if you are riding or wanting to ride I don’t recommend the casts, they can be really slippery in certain conditions.

When you used the boots, were you providing frog pads/comfort pads. Many times this is enough.

Do you have the diet tight? Pix of the feet? Pix of horses body? IF you dare share.

What do I need to know about adjustment period, soreness going barefoot to shod? Will he be sore?

Not if you find a really really good farrier - hard to come by as far as I’m concerned.

There should be no transition from bare to shod to bare if things are done right. hard to come by as far as I’m concerned

And should I do just fronts to start, or all 4? When I got him he only had shoes in front…although has thin soles on all 4.

I’m finding that doing the fronts first is a good step, then after a month or so you can assess if you need hinds. I found my horse was so sore in his fronts that he didn’t care about his hinds… until… His fronts were feeling so good he said, hey I want that on the hinds too

Do things methodically and carefully so you know what works and what doesn’t. Too many people throw the everything but the kitchen sink at the problem and don’t figure out what it was that fixed the issue.

Would love thoughts and opinions - this isn’t a barefoot vs. shod debate - I really want to do what’s best for my horse and will shoe if it will help him.

Don’t we all, good luck. If you need to PM or email me and I’ll help in any way I can.

Kim

[Auventera_Two]

tpup - wow, lots of garbage flying on this thread already.

First - PHW, and Equicast are DIFFERENT PRODUCTS. Equicast contains fiberglass, and PHW does not. Different products for different purposes. PHW which is a polymer base, is more pourous and flexible than Equicast, and as such, it isn’t meant to stay on for 5 or 6 weeks. You might have better luck with Equicast, but it is definitely more restrictive than PHW. Equicast is cheaper and I’ve had it last for 5 to 6 weeks. If you were to do all four feet, you’d be looking at $60 ($15/roll). Or buy 2 of the 4" roles and cut them in half. I’ve done that also. Then you’re looking at 30 bucks every 5 to 6 weeks. Some horses would do better in PHW, some in Equicast, based on the situation and the environment.

I agree with LMH about assessing the trim more thoroughly. There IS a genetic component to thin soles, certainly. But a long stretched toe will never allow you to grow adequately thick sole.

And yes, SOME horses can have an adjustment period to shoes. I’ve seen it on my own horses. Particularly if the farrier fits the shoes tight and clinches tight. They also have to adjust to the weight and balance change. We had a horse who could NEVER adjust to steels so was switched to aluminums so his gait would return to normal. Don’t think it’s always as simple as just - slap on a set of shoes. It’s not. Been there, done that, got a t-shirt, a bumper sticker, and a hangover.

Considering all Ts are crossed and Is are dotted, your horse does sound like a candidate for shoeing. But, PLEASE hire a trained and certified farrier to do it, and not a trimmer with 1 day of training nailing on shoes to one horse. Would you ask your family doctor to extract your impacted wisdom tooth? Or your dentist to treat a failing kidney? Different professionals for different tasks. Shoeing is an art and a science. Nuff said - you get the point.

[deltawave]

If your horse had a sore back from the saddle, you’d get the saddle adjusted or a new one, right? If the horse’s bit was hurting his mouth you’d get a new bit, right?

If it hurts to walk around barefoot on the rocks, WE put shoes on, right?

Don’t see why this is a decision that anyone should criticize in any way, shape or form.

I put shoes back on Bonnie last week–she was getting to the point where she just wasn’t working as happily barefoot. Immediate improvement seen. :yes:

[BornToRide]

It would concern me, if it was my horse, that the horse has unhealthy hooves and shoes would only cover it up without really solving it. I would want to find out why he’s so sensitive and why the soles are still thin.

Thin soles can come from any of the following:

• Trimming too much sole
• Feeding too much of a good thing for what a horse can tolerate (diet high in NSCs)
• Diet lacking suffiecient minerals for good hoof health - usually zinc and copper
• Horse lacking zinc znd copper thanks to a compromised digestive tract, like from ulcers or worms
• Horse lacking zinc and copper from getting too much iron in the diet which interferes with zinc and copper uptake.

If you have not done so already, I would explore all of those options first [I]AND[/I] try boots first, before deciding to go back to shoes.

For example, I trim two Cushings mares who are not on medication. Both get straight alfalfa and actually are doing very well on it. One became then sore on pasture grass and had to be taken off the pasture and the other on equine senior initially and then later new orchard grass hay the owner had bought and added to the diet. All it took was two weeks to straighten her back out and become sound again, once the offending hay was removed. It can be little things like that.

And guess what, the Cushings mare who reacted to the Equine senior and orchard grass hay has a stablemate, a 20+ year old TB who reacted to it as well and used to have frequent abscessing problems too before I started trimming him. I have trimmed those two horses three times now and we no longer have to worry about issues like this. Both are sound now since the diet changes.

[LMH]

[QUOTE=irishcas;3954135]

Kim - who is off to trail ride her sound (correct trim, correct diet) shod in front happy, healthy horse :D[/QUOTE]

Without sounding flip, how can you be so sure? Correct by how you have been taught BUT there are others that would disagree.

There are others that would make changes to how you balance a foot.

Not saying it would help, just saying something to think about.

There is always room to look at something from a different place and always room to learn more.

Something as simple as a shorter toe, a bevel from a different direction or a different shape on the bars can make big changes.

Just speaking from my own experience.

[BornToRide]

Or

Kim - who is off to trail ride her sound (correct trim, correct diet) shod in front happy, healthy horse

And you pull the shoes and he will no longer be sound. IMO this is really not a sound horse. He only seems sound with shoes on.

It is like one of my former clients who put shoes back on her chronically laminitic mare . She was chronically laminitic from eating low levels of bracken fern.

[JHUshoer20]

[QUOTE=BornToRide;3954412]
And you pull the shoes and he will no longer be sound. IMO this is really not a sound horse. He only seems sound with shoes on.[/QUOTE]
Sound is as sound does. So what’s your point?
George

[tpup]

Thanks everyone - what about glue-ons?

I agree I don’t think the Perfect Hoof Wear would be practical…having them last 3-4 weeks only just isn’t cost effect and it doesn’t make sense.

[Lieslot]

I haven’t read all replies.
But just wanted to say, do consider putting some pads under the shoe if your ring & turnout is rocky.

My shod horse will still get pink soles if he’s not padded, due to rocks in my pasture and on trails. He does brilliant in Vibram pads with Magic Cushion underneath.
Magic Cushion might be a great help for sore soles. I contains capsaicin (as far as I know does not test through sole absorption) and will make him more comfortable.

I have often tossed with the idea of glue-ons for my other horse too, but something about sealing off the hoofwall to air bothers me. Probably no reason why it’s bad, but just me not liking the idea.

I think it’s great you decide to go back to shoes rather then being booted for the majority of the time. It’s one thing needing boots for riding, but another thing needing boots for riding & turnout. When I had my TB in boots 24/7, his feet became incredibly soft, due to moisture build-up in the boots and never let to air. Boots can be a wonderfull thing when you go the barefoot route, but it’s not always the perfect answer.