Going back to shoes -advice?

[goeslikestink]

[QUOTE=BornToRide;3956828]
Have you never considered the abrasive surfaces Mustangs walk over every day for over 20 miles or so, while domestic horses are generally worked 1 hour a day tops and most not even every day??

Nope sorry, it has been tried. Horses with supposedly genetically weak hooves were bred and produced off spring that had excellent hooves. However those colts were also

• never shod at the age of two, before hooves are fully mature
• allowed to exercise as much as possible to develop good, strong hooves until they were mature
• fed a species appropriate diet - high fiber and low NSCs

Those are all contributing factors to hoof health that still get consistently overlooked.

Most likely steel shoes evolved as weapons, as a horse with iron on the bottom of their hooves could do a lot more damage to an enemy when kicking out. At the same time horses were more stalled for convenience reasons and we all know how deplorable the hygiene was in the middle ages, plust they started feeding horses oats, again mostly probably for convenience reasons, since it was more difficult to store tons of hay in the tight spaces of midieval fortifications.

Many humans in warmer climates still walk barefoot today. Perhaps we had more need for shoes in colder climates and that’s how they came about.

My point is that a horse’s hoof can definitely addapt to going bare, much more so than a human foot. We do it all the time and successfully so. Shoes can be an excellent tool for traction if necessary or extra protection on rocky ground, but should not be used to cover up hoof pathologies, because they will continue to fester and often do not heal and get worse because the root causes are never effectively addressed.[/QUOTE]

obviously you live in 3rd world poverty – and are stuck in a time lock
before man was a caveman - they learnt to wear skins on there feet to protect them from the terrain and infection

but i guess this is before your time -

[deltawave]

hoagies and grinders, navy beans navy beans

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I love Adam Sandler.

[irishcas]

[QUOTE=Auventera Two;3959235]
Those pesky little blobs that turned my Size 4 cheeks into Size 7 cheeks.

Doritos, Twinkies, Genral Tsao’s Chicken, Girl Scout Cookies, Dairy Queen Blizards, Cheetos, cannied weenies, Culvers Fries, Peeps, hoagies and grinders, navy beans navy beans - meatloaf sandwhich - sloppy joes, sloppy joes, slop slop sloppy joes… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_-KbstEG4E … and Cherry Pepsis. (Please note this is not an exhaustive list. In my 30 years I have discovered at least 5,689 other causes of fat pads but that list would be too exhaustive for this forum. I hope this will suffice in satisfying the challenge question.

At this time, there is nothing known to make them go away. The good news is that GAP has a manufacturing facility equipped to make Size 7s to accommodate the fat pads. Until I have discovered a way to reduce the fat pads, I will be forced to utilize their services.[/QUOTE]

Well, while that was mildly amusing it shows exactly what I thought. Parroting but no understanding

Kim

[Moderator_1]

Back to the OT and lay off the personal commentary:

[QUOTE=tpup;3953856]
Due to lameness issues, ring condition issues and thin soles (reacting positive to hoof testers), my vet practice (2 very good lameness vets) are recommending that I shoe my horse. He has been barefoot 1.5 yrs. Was shod when I got him but feet were in terrible condition. I asked about using boots for ring/trails (I have Easyboots), but vet really feels shoes will make him more comfortable all around and in his field too and help with his movement and other issues…he is also thinking ahead to hard, dry summers and was not high on boots because it’s not practical for me to turn him out in the easyboots. Vet feels all 4 shod will help him - that after being barefoot this long, his soles should be harder - he feels it’s just an anatomical thing with him - he is older, arthritic hocks and other issues I’ve posted about recently with videos.

Have to admit I have gone back and forth about this for a while. Our ring is rocky. Other ring is bluestone. He clearly veers to grass when he can (up driveway, on outer edges of rings - goes along fence when he can…)

Another option I have is to use Perfect Hoof Wear again - we did few cycles last year and he was very happy in them, but the tended to last only 3-4 weeks max. Best we got once was 5 weeks.

What do I need to know about adjustment period, soreness going barefoot to shod? Will he be sore?

And should I do just fronts to start, or all 4? When I got him he only had shoes in front…although has thin soles on all 4.

Would love thoughts and opinions - this isn’t a barefoot vs. shod debate - I really want to do what’s best for my horse and will shoe if it will help him.[/QUOTE]

[tpup]

Drama not helping, but I am finding it a bit entertaining.

SublimeEquine…I am shoeing him. Buried in all these posts is my update - aluminum shoes and thin layer of SoleGuard is going on a week from today. He’s fine and playing in his field right now on soft, muddy ground.

[luvmywalkers]

[QUOTE=tpup;3956375]
Thanks everyone - well appt. has been made for next week. Using good farrier who has alot of experience with arthritic horses. He is going to shoe all 4 with aluminum shoes and put thin coat of durasole (I think that’s what it’s called). Said I should see immediate difference.[/QUOTE]

Almost sounds like the farrier thinks your biggest problem is thin soles (Durasole makes soles harder). Has he given you his opinion on why/how the thin soles?

[luvmywalkers]

[QUOTE=luvmywalkers;3959636]
Almost sounds like the farrier thinks your biggest problem is thin soles (Durasole makes soles harder). Has he given you his opinion on why/how the thin soles?[/QUOTE]

OK…tried to work my way through all this, when I came upon your update, hence I hadn’t seen your last post. Same thing tho’: Soleguard is to protect the sole. Are they thin and if yes, do you/farrier know why?

[Auventera_Two]

@irishcas;3959493

Well, while that was mildly amusing it shows exactly what I thought. Parroting but no understanding

Kim

It was meant to be a joke. Sorry if you missed that.

Adipose tissue is associated with endocrine system imbalance, as it secretes many different hormones into the blood stream, one of which is TNF (tumor necrosing factor) which has been shown to induce insulin resistance in humans.

I’ve lived with a malfunctioning endocrine system for - oh, I’d say about 11 years now and controlling body fat percentage is important to manage the problem given that adipose tissue can imbalance the body’s hormones in an already teetering system. I am currently taking a breast cancer drug that works on the estrogen secreting tissues of the body but if I could just lose more body fat, maybe I wouldn’t have to. I do not have cancer, but the drug helps to regulate my endocrine system. The AAFP has a good article out on the net that explains the disease process in detail if anyone is interested.

This is why its so important to keep metabolic horses EXERCISING. Get the feet stabilized so you aren’t doing more damage, and then get the horse moving. The more adipose tissue that is present, the more you’re spinning your wheels.

After having dealt with endocrine system dysfunction myself for so long, I found it a little ironic that I would obtain horses with similar issues. Funny how the world works. But one thing is that it helped tremendously in understanding metabolic dysfunction in equines.

[foggybok]

[QUOTE=Auventera Two;3959235]
Those pesky little blobs that turned my Size 4 cheeks into Size 7 cheeks.

Doritos, Twinkies, Genral Tsao’s Chicken, Girl Scout Cookies, Dairy Queen Blizards, Cheetos, cannied weenies, Culvers Fries, Peeps, hoagies and grinders, navy beans navy beans - meatloaf sandwhich - sloppy joes, sloppy joes, slop slop sloppy joes… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_-KbstEG4E … and Cherry Pepsis. (Please note this is not an exhaustive list. In my 30 years I have discovered at least 5,689 other causes of fat pads but that list would be too exhaustive for this forum. I hope this will suffice in satisfying the challenge question.

At this time, there is nothing known to make them go away. The good news is that GAP has a manufacturing facility equipped to make Size 7s to accommodate the fat pads. Until I have discovered a way to reduce the fat pads, I will be forced to utilize their services.[/QUOTE]

LOL, I love it! Especially the GAP size 7…so true! :D:lol: And peeps! Ever watch one burn in a wood stove?

[vxf111]

GAP only has ladies sizes, not juniors. No size 7 at the GAP. Size 6 or size 8, but no size 7. I figured, since we’re trying to be correct, I’d add that nugget of information.

OP, hopefully your boy is more comfortable with the shoes on, I suspect he will be. A little more buffer between sore feet and the ground.

My horse Stoney his year, for the first time, got a little ouchy during the part of the winter when the ground was frozen HARD in uneven ruts of mud. The farrier suggested applying a bit of the “glue on shoe” glue on the sole, as a buffer. He thought it was better than a pad (things can get trapped behind a pad) and more protection than the nail on shoe alone with nothing on the sole. Food for thought.

[tpup]

It was my vet who “diagnosed” the thin, sensitive soles and hoof tested him. No “medical” reason, he feels - just that it’s time to try shoes, and I have to agree. After 1.5 years, I’ve given it my best shot. My horse was happiest and moved the best when his feet were covered in Perfect Hoof Wear. Unfortunately it doesn’t last long enough, so I’m trying shoes. Our ring is a bit rocky and moving him isn’t an option right now. I also won’t have to mess with boots for trails in summer. He clearly veers to grass whenever he can, even around the ring’s edges, on trails, etc. I just want him to be comfortable and honestly I am tired of constantly worrying, “Oh is he sore?? Did that hurt? Is this too rocky?”

My farrier has had good success with this approach (aluminum shoes and thin layer of Durasole). It certainly can’t hurt to try.

[marta]

tpup

your horse sounds a lot like my mare.
she also makes her way to the grass to find softer footing.
in all honesty, i’d be surprised if durasole worked for you.
i don’t see how that offers protection from concussion which is what thin soled horses want. my mare is uncomfortable in boots. she needs boots with pads to be comfortable.
please post if you find that the shoes and durasole help (or not). i would think that you would need a pour in pad or something creates a barrier and offers a cushion.

[Auventera_Two]

@deltawave;3959490

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I love Adam Sandler.

Me too!! He’s like a dorky cute kid. Love him

[dalpal]

[QUOTE=BornToRide;3957128]
And hoof protection should really function like a human shoe, so it can be taken off at the end of the day or after a ride.

I know of no human who would wear shoes 24/7 and rightly so and they don’t even have soles made from a thick metal plate. So why do we think it is fair to force this onto our horses?[/QUOTE]

I NEVER go barefoot, cannot stand the feel of it…and I wear socks at bedtime…so technically, I am rarely ever barefoot…basically only in the shower…so you could say that I am NOT barefoot 23.75/7

Why do you assume that ALL performance horses should be barefoot? If you want to make a human analogy…I don’t see football players, baseball players, basketball players, runners, cyclists without shoes??? The only athletic sport that comes to mind without shoes is swimming. Why do you think these athletes wear shoes? Because it helps them move and protects their feet. Do you see ballerinas without ballet shoes?

BTR…Shoes are not the antichrist…they are tools. And I do have a horse that NEEDS shoes. And I could care less if you find that offensive. They help him stay sound/do his job.

[Tom_Stovall]

marta in gray, stuff deleted

in all honesty, i’d be surprised if durasole worked for you.
i don’t see how that offers protection from concussion which is what thin soled horses want.

Most effective sole tougheners contain fixatives, usually aldehydes and/or tannic acid, that form crosslinks in the exfoliating sole at the molecular level. Whatever its thickness, crosslinkage adds strength and structural rigidity to the structure, and those factors greatly enhance the protective properties of the exfoliating sole.

please post if you find that the shoes and durasole help.

My thoughts exactly.

[Secretariat2]

[QUOTE=tpup;3960202]
It was my vet who “diagnosed” the thin, sensitive soles and hoof tested him. No “medical” reason, he feels - just that it’s time to try shoes, and I have to agree. After 1.5 years, I’ve given it my best shot. My horse was happiest and moved the best when his feet were covered in Perfect Hoof Wear. Unfortunately it doesn’t last long enough, so I’m trying shoes. Our ring is a bit rocky and moving him isn’t an option right now. I also won’t have to mess with boots for trails in summer. He clearly veers to grass whenever he can, even around the ring’s edges, on trails, etc. I just want him to be comfortable and honestly I am tired of constantly worrying, “Oh is he sore?? Did that hurt? Is this too rocky?”

My farrier has had good success with this approach (aluminum shoes and thin layer of Durasole). It certainly can’t hurt to try.[/QUOTE]

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me My QH looked for grassy edges when the “professional” trimmer trimmed him. Now that I’m trimming he, and my OTTB mare are comfortable over all surfaces barefoot. IMO which I admit is limited to my own experience, many trimmers trim too much. They want to make the foot look “right”. I don’t care what it looks like - I want the horse to be comfortable.

[luvmywalkers]

[QUOTE=tpup;3960202]
It was my vet who “diagnosed” the thin, sensitive soles and hoof tested him. No “medical” reason, he feels - just that it’s time to try shoes, and I have to agree. After 1.5 years, I’ve given it my best shot. My horse was happiest and moved the best when his feet were covered in Perfect Hoof Wear. Unfortunately it doesn’t last long enough, so I’m trying shoes. Our ring is a bit rocky and moving him isn’t an option right now. I also won’t have to mess with boots for trails in summer. He clearly veers to grass whenever he can, even around the ring’s edges, on trails, etc. I just want him to be comfortable and honestly I am tired of constantly worrying, “Oh is he sore?? Did that hurt? Is this too rocky?”

My farrier has had good success with this approach (aluminum shoes and thin layer of Durasole). It certainly can’t hurt to try.[/QUOTE]

If thin soles is his problem, that approach will certainly help. I just wondered how he got the thin soles…unfortunately, a lot of times a horse ends up with thin soles because too much sole gets removed during trimming.

[JHUshoer20]

[QUOTE=BornToRide;3958224]
I thought as an AHA rep you know and embrace all this info. From what I keep seeing from you lately, perhaps you really can represent the AHA in good faith any longer. [/QUOTE] Being as that Kimmy holds an elected office in that esteemed organization obviously there are people happy with her job performance. On the other hand, If it keeps you up at night you can certainly join and vote against her or even stand for election yourself. Until you do that I’m sure she won’t worry about a non-member’s opinion.

You wouldn’t believe how many people crinch each time they read your posts…but, carry on

Pot meet the kettle:lol:

[QUOTE=BornToRide;3958236]Yeah and what I have read from you, a certified farrier, consistently gives me a very warm and fuzzy feeling…in case this is not clear, I am being rather sarcastic!:)[/QUOTE]Wasn’t it you that was offered a trip to Georgia to educate him on proper trimming? What happened? Some of us were interested in your getting a chance to prove some of your outlandish claims. Instead all you can do is be insulting and sarcastic to a fine individual:yes:

[QUOTE=Tom Stovall;3958345]
Dr, Tesky is an embarrassment to the profession and held in contempt by many equine vets.[/QUOTE] Absolutely

Pete Ramey was a farrier before he found he could make more money with less effort by fleecing the suckers who are encouraged to leave critical thinking at the door of his seances.

True again

As an inexperienced dilettante and an obvious non-professional, you probably wouldn’t understand, but yes’m, those two gentlemen are most assuredly an embarrassment to every hoofcare professional.

Dittos, who could disagree with that?

Doubtless, the number of folks who “crinch” is probably equal to the number of folks who get their “information” from the pontifications of wannabe gurus and other examples of intellectual lemminghood.

Truer words never spoken:)

LMAO! Once again, your knowledge of equine anatomy is astounding! Please describe how respiration takes place in the hooves. Take all the time you need.

We wait with baited breath for this one. Wonder if hoofworm infestations can interfere with proper hoof respiration???
George