BornToRide…I have no trouble if people use them temporarily on healthy hooves. But then again, that’s not really your objective, to actually be objective…
From a certified Massage Therapist!!!
Not a certified BUA, Farrier or Anatomist!
[edit]
[QUOTE=BornToRide;3958190]
I’d like to know where you got your info from - would be interesting to read. I have done some research in this area and consitently found that most information is really based on assumptions, not actual facts.
I have been reading a book about horses in the American Blackfeet culture that is actually based on facts. Most certainly they had no access to shoes and used their horses prtimarily bare. They would only put a rawhide cover if a horse had injured a hoof.
Most likely almost all horses in the wild west, owned by Native Americans or Whites, were bare and had to function this way. Mongolian Nomads still ride their horses bare to this day and they function well.
And I was talking about the time when horse shoes really took off, in the Middle ages. Keep in mind too that iron was so precious, only a few rich people could afford horse shoes, that’s why they are associated with luck. This logically implies that most horses, even in the middle ages, were most likely hooved.
…[/QUOTE]
The Mongols live differently. They are nomads and have large herds of horses. They move around a lot. Most of us have one or two or a few. We stall them or turn them out in small pastures. Then trailer them to weird places to footing they have never encountered. We jump or gallop or what not and then stall them again with shavings. Very different style of horsekeeping.
As for humans being barefoot, I grew up in a part of India where people used to be barefoot most of the time. My grandfather never wore footwear of any kind till the day he died. If you ever saw his feet-cracked and callused-no thanks I like my shoes and soft feet!!
Since this is something Dr. Teskey, DVM, and former farrier, has said, and I believe a few other well known professionals Like Pete Ramey agree with him too, you are actually saying that they embarass professional hoofcare folks. NICE going Kim!! :lol::lol: I thought as an AHA rep you know and embrace all this info. From what I keep seeing from you lately, perhaps you really can represent the AHA in good faith any longer.
Other common but unsound arguments claim that shoes are needed because of the added weight of tack and rider, the harder terrain, and the extreme sports that are expected of the modern-day horse. Each of these arguments can be refuted, in order, on physiological and historical grounds. For example, the feet of pregnant mares comfortably adapt, in the wild, to the increased weight of the gravid uterus. Horses adapted to varied terrains, including desert, where hard terrain is the norm. The ‘extreme sport’ of cavalry warfare was conducted for about 2500 years without shoes. For the last two hundred years of this period, horses were carrying the ‘added weight’ of armor and equipment. We should recognize that, on weight bearing, steel shoes hold the sole of the hoof in a nonweight- bearing, vaulted position against the descending coffin bone
http://www.easycareinc.com/Education/articles/unfettered.aspx
Please stop being a proponent for barefoot professionals and stick to being a good bodyworker. Love your discussions on muscles, tendons and such, cringe when you start babbling barefoot.
You wouldn’t believe how many people crinch each time they read your posts…but, carry on 
The Mongols live differently. They are nomads and have large herds of horses. They move around a lot. Most of us have one or two or a few. We stall them or turn them out in small pastures. Then trailer them to weird places to footing they have never encountered. We jump or gallop or what not and then stall them again with shavings. Very different style of horsekeeping.
That’s fine, but changes can still be made to make barefoot a success. You can find 24/7 turnout and encourage others to create this and a more natural equine lifestyle and use boots as needed. At least horses won’t have to wear metal shoes 24/7 and their feet can actually breathe and recover normally, like we do too when we take our feet out of shoes at night
Yeah and what I have read from you, a certified farrier, consistently gives me a very warm and fuzzy feeling…in case this is not clear, I am being rather sarcastic!
Never said I was certified; maybe certifiable?
If Pete would Fart your head would explode!:eek::eek::yes::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
BornToRide in gray, stuff deleted
Since this is something Dr. Teskey, DVM,
Dr, Tesky is an embarrassment to the profession and held in contempt by many equine vets.
and former farrier, has said, and I believe a few other well known professionals Like Pete Ramey agree with him too,
Pete Ramey was a farrier before he found he could make more money with less effort by fleecing the suckers who are encouraged to leave critical thinking at the door of his seances.
you are actually saying that they embarass professional hoofcare folks.
As an inexperienced dilettante and an obvious non-professional, you probably wouldn’t understand, but yes’m, those two gentlemen are most assuredly an embarrassment to every hoofcare professional.
NICE going Kim!! :lol::lol: I thought as an AHA rep you know and embrace all this info. From what I keep seeing from you lately, perhaps you really can represent the AHA in good faith any longer.
http://www.easycareinc.com/Education/articles/unfettered.aspx
LMAO! Take this to the bank, if “faith” is involved, the deal is probably bogus.
You wouldn’t believe how many people crinch each time they read your posts…but, carry on
Doubtless, the number of folks who “crinch” is probably equal to the number of folks who get their “information” from the pontifications of wannabe gurus and other examples of intellectual lemminghood.
That’s fine, but changes can still be made to make barefoot a success.
For any horse that doesn’t need shoes to do whatever it does as best it can, being barefoot is already a “success.”
You can find 24/7 turnout and encourage others to create this and a more natural equine lifestyle and use boots as needed.
Whatever gave you the silly idea that “natural” has anything to do with good husbandry; or, that boots are ever an viable substitute for shoes when the horse is best served by shoes? To be quite candid, you appear to have overdosed on the BUA’s lunatic fringe Kool-Aid.
At least horses won’t have to wear metal shoes 24/7 and their feet can actually breathe
LMAO! Once again, your knowledge of equine anatomy is astounding! Please describe how respiration takes place in the hooves. Take all the time you need.
and recover normally, like we do too when we take our feet out of shoes at night
More anthropormorphic twaddle? As you learned in a previous lesson, horses’ hooves are not anatomically analogous to human feet, but it appears that news hasn’t yet reached the standard bearers of the BUA’s lunatic fringe.
[QUOTE=BornToRide;3958190]
Keep in mind too that iron was so precious, only a few rich people could afford horse shoes, [/QUOTE]
Pfffffffffft! (that was Pete farting). How come only rich people needed to outfit their horses with this sort of barbaric “weaponry”?
that’s why they are associated with luck.
The horseshoe as a good luck charm goes back to paganism and the horseshoe’s likeness to the crescent moon, a potent fertility symbol.
This logically implies that most horses, even in the middle ages, were most likely hooved.
I would have to agree that horses in the Middle Ages were most likely “hooved.”
“The horseshoe as a good luck charm goes back to paganism and the horseshoe’s likeness to the crescent moon, a potent fertility symbol.”
Good gawd! Keep them away from me, I don’t want to be fertile!
[QUOTE=BornToRide;3958190]
Most likely almost all horses in the wild west, owned by Native Americans or Whites, were bare and had to function this way. Mongolian Nomads still ride their horses bare to this day and they function well. [/QUOTE]
Every town during the age of horsepower had a blacksmith. Many large ranches employed one. Many cowboys shod their own horses (not always with skill). The iron shoe was ubiquitous.
Aboriginal American riders used shoes. They were generally made of materials available like buffalo hide.
Only the rich in that period could afford horses. Most farm work was done by oxen. I’ve seen museum examples of oxen shoes.
Horses were a valuable resource and the owner spend money to keep it sound. If that meant shoes then so be it.
Note that there is a vast difference between the climate of the Mongolian Steppe and, say, Northern Europe. Soft, wet ground is not friendly to horse hoofs.
Pretty clean aswer to that.
I own nine horses. I have two shod all round, two with fronts only. That leaves five nekkid. If I didn’t have to shoe the ones I’m doing I’d not do it. It costs me about $100 for shoes, $35 for a trim. Just where is the economic advantage? Yet I won’t sore up a horse to save a few bucks or be philosophically pure.
Your words have changed over time, but I doubt them. You continue to present historical bunk as fact. You ignore any facts that challenge your theories. Looking “between the lines” of what you write you remain a BUA zealot.
You can certainly be a BUA zealot, but that may draw a comment or two. 
G.
Ute:
Here is a little hint for ya, think for yourself instead of parroting what others say. Logically a feral mare does not have a foal pop into her belly weighing 100 - 200lbs for a few hours and have it pop out again. A mare, develops an embryo that weighs NOTHING, into a foal ready to be born over 11 - 12 months. Any person with an ounce of logic can grasp that she develops a tolerance for it.
I have seen what happens to the poor feral horses when they are forced to RUN over their terrain for any distance when the humans chase them in their helicopters. They break legs, they abscess, etc.
I love Pete, I talk to him on a somewhat regular basis. I do not worship at his feet and I don’t agree with everything he says. If I kept quiet, if I keep quiet people will continue to think that all barefoot horses can be Gravel Crunchers. I talked to Pete recently about this and he says he regrets to this day every saying that. BTW, you might notice that Pete is NOT on this board, he tells me he doesn’t like listening to the BUA or the childish crap that goes on here. So I’m not saying Pete is embarrasing I’m saying YOU ARE If I have a problem with Pete, I’ll pick up my phone, call him and discuss it.
More people in the AHA use shoes when necessary than just me :rolleyes: We understand that we can get healing faster and break the pain cycle easier. Doing something in blind faith is not my style, if it were I wouldn’t be where I’m at today. Our (the NON BUA) goal is to have barefoot horses whenever we can. But we can recognize that it sometimes help a horse to have protection 24/7 to facilitate healing.
Here let me see if you are a thinker or a follower…
What are fat pads? What causes them? What makes them go away?
Serious question, I’m extremely curious to hear your answer. Or anyone’s for that matter.
Another fun question for you, what is the difference between the Epona Shoe, Casts or the Glue on Boot?
But I agree now with Tom S, please keep posting you add high value entertainment to these discussions.
Kim
[QUOTE=Guilherme;3958629]
I own nine horses. I have two shod all round, two with fronts only. That leaves five nekkid. If I didn’t have to shoe the ones I’m doing I’d not do it. It costs me about $100 for shoes, $35 for a trim. Just where is the economic advantage? Yet I won’t sore up a horse to save a few bucks or be philosophically pure.[/QUOTE]
Thank you! Honestly, who wants to shoe our horses if they are otherwise just as comfortable and capable of their jobs without them?? [Oh, not me! I love holding my horse for the farrier when it’s 2 degrees out…so fun!] I think that if horses were bred for hard feet and hoof soundness (and virtually nothing else), maybe most horses would be barefoot, but that’s just not the world in which we currently live. My TB mare was happy barefoot as a broodmare in TN, but now in NY and in light work, she’s happiest in front shoes w/ pads. I know, because I tried barefoot, boots, rim pads, full pads, etc. Unfortunately she wasn’t bred for super tough feet…she was bred to race. But not a big deal; I am happy that she can finally be comfortable.
To the OP, I’m sure your horse will be absolutely fine “transitioning” to the shoes. My mare stepped out of the barn and pranced around. There was no doubt that she was more comfortable, and there was no transition at all. Good luck!
most horses, even in the middle ages, were most likely hooved.
Way to take a stand! :lol:
Thanks for correcting my pre-history
Tom Stovall, I stand humbly correct.
Now back to the “water sports”!
I’m not wearing a rain coat so I’m out.
[QUOTE=Guilherme;3958629]
Only the rich in that period could afford horses. Most farm work was done by oxen. I’ve seen museum examples of oxen shoes.
Horses were a valuable resource and the owner spend money to keep it sound. If that meant shoes then so be it.
You can certainly be a BUA zealot, but that may draw a comment or two.
G.[/QUOTE]
In India they still shoe oxen . They don’t shoe cows -just oxen.
BTR, they don’t use oxen for war over there-just work and lots and lots of work. Also a lot of people are so poor that they can’t even afford full shoeing . They pay it back over time. So these are not well off people making a choice based on ideals-but becasue they have to. The hooves simply don’t hold up to that kind of load and work.
Nobody there shoes cows-some of them may walk huge distances-but nobody shoes them. The native cows are tough. So not sure BTR where you got shoes were invented as a weapon? Maybe I missed it-did they have catapult horsehoes or something that could be flung from a distance and hit the enemy in the head or something?:lol:
[QUOTE=tkhawk;3958890]
So not sure BTR where you got shoes were invented as a weapon? [/QUOTE]
Straight out of the Strasser Blue Book
Kim
Question for the OP - you keep saying you only get 3-4 weeks, sometimes 5, out of the casts. Well… in an ideal world, most horses get reshod every 5 weeks. It costs much more to shoe than to cast. So… not sure that argument really holds up if you think about it.
Otherwise - I send plenty of horses back into shoes. No problem w/it at all. I do think I would use boots/pads for a while first before I did it, but that is me.
Adjustment time - of course there is adjustment time when you put shoes back on a horse that has been barefoot. Parts of it are positive, part of it are not. That only seems like common sense to me, not sure why anyone would debate that…
Those pesky little blobs that turned my Size 4 cheeks into Size 7 cheeks.
What causes them?
Doritos, Twinkies, Genral Tsao’s Chicken, Girl Scout Cookies, Dairy Queen Blizards, Cheetos, cannied weenies, Culvers Fries, Peeps, hoagies and grinders, navy beans navy beans - meatloaf sandwhich - sloppy joes, sloppy joes, slop slop sloppy joes… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_-KbstEG4E … and Cherry Pepsis. (Please note this is not an exhaustive list. In my 30 years I have discovered at least 5,689 other causes of fat pads but that list would be too exhaustive for this forum. I hope this will suffice in satisfying the challenge question.
What makes them go away?
At this time, there is nothing known to make them go away. 
The good news is that GAP has a manufacturing facility equipped to make Size 7s to accommodate the fat pads. Until I have discovered a way to reduce the fat pads, I will be forced to utilize their services.
Why on earth is this such a huge debate? OP, if the horse is tender and thin-soled, and you think the horse will be comfier shod… then shoe it! :lol:
Hello. This is the internet. What would the internet be without drama? It would be 
and we can’t have that.
[QUOTE=Auventera Two;3959351]
Hello. This is the internet. What would the internet be without drama? It would be and we can’t have that.[/QUOTE]
Is this drama helping the OP? Probably not. :lol:
