Going barefoot to grow foot

[ake987]

Inherited my best friend and her father’s one and only homebred TB after he passed away unexpectedly in late April. He’s 6yo, we pulled race plates and replaced with steel - up front only. Turned out on 30 acres 24/7, ripped the first steel shoes off after one day. The pair that replaced those stayed on with double bell boots until his feet started to fall apart. He is sore due to thin soles and moves fine on grass and even pavement - but lord help us if he steps on a rock. There is not enough foot with integrity to nail shoes back onto. Glue on shoes are not in the budget.

Is there anything I can do (biotin, other vitamins or supplements, topicals etc.) that others have tried and have helped? I only supplement my other OTTB with Vit E and selenium, since my area is deficient. I don’t have an agenda with this horse - he can stay turned out for a year and work on growing foot. If there’s anything I can do to help ensure it’s good quality foot that others have experience with, I’d love to know.

Thank you!

[EmilyM]

I use E3 Live supplement made by a company called the perfect horse for a horse that has bad feet as a youngster and needed shoes once he started real work. I think the copper and zinc are what work on that supplement. Huge improvement. It helps scratches too.

https://www.e3liveforhorses.com/

I pulled shoes on one that also had poor hoof quality/crumbles and used soft ride boots to get him through the initial soreness.

[walkinthewalk]

You will probably get as many good answers as there are horses with bad hooves on this forum:)

What is helping my IR-lives-with-residual-founder-issues horse is Camelina Oil, a condensed soy-e Vit/min supplement and a special shoeing package.

We use a model of the EasyCare Versa shoe, which is a pliable plastic shoe. My horse deals with shelly hooves thanks to the founder but he has always had thick hoof wall so holds a nailed shoe very well; 4 nails in each shoe. We once tried glueing them on, they were Hades to get off and that was the end of gluing.

A pliable full plastic pad is nailed to the shoe and DIM material underneath that not only protects but encourages frog growth.

My horse is not rideable and is on six acres of pasture daily. He has only thrown a shoe twice in 25 weeks, both times he was Running/bucking in the wet grass and must have hooked himself with a back hoof. The entire package came off with no damage to the hoof both times.

SmartEarth’s Camelina oil does a great job eliminating inflammation in his entire body (Thus promoting good all around health) to the point his vet/chiro even noticed and told me to keep using it:)

You could also keep hoof boots on him during turnout:)

[Ponycatraz]

For my shell footed, thin soled horse I found switching from a commercial feed to CA Trace plus really made a difference. After about 8 months my then 16 yo horse grew a solid hard hoof, increases sole depth confirmed with x-rays, and went up a size in the hoof boots I use. I actually rarely use my hoof boots anymore and find I can get away with hoof armor.

This particular horse just needs more copper and zinc in his diet then your average horse. All of my others were on the same commercial feed and had rock crushing hooves.

[Nova2000]

Copper/zinc is deficient in many areas of the US. It’s incredibly important for healthy hoof growth. A supplement like Cal Trace is excellent. There are similar options, pick the one your horse will eat!

A low sugar diet and lots of movement to stimulate the feet. Hoof boots can make the transition easier, and may be needed for temporary comfort depending on the condition of their feet currently.

There is a great podcast by The Humble Hoof that can help you plan for the transition.

[Texarkana]

Not what you asked, but you might try casting his feet. Cheap, easy, and effective. Talk to your farrier about it; they are not hard to apply. I learned to apply them myself.

https://www.centaurforge.com/3-Equicast-Temporary-Support-System-3-x-4-yards-Roll/productinfo/CAST3/

Also: this time of year, fly boots will help a TON. There is nothing worse for the thin-footed TB than stomping at flies.

[S1969]

@Texarkana

Also: this time of year, fly boots will help a TON. There is nothing worse for the thin-footed TB than stomping at flies.

Agreed; fly boots and hoof boots are probably the best option. It doesn’t ever hurt to try supplements, and the potential for supplementing copper/zinc is worth considering.

But - there are a lot of horses that don’t do well barefoot, even with all great diets. If you want his feet to grow out, you will need to protect them to some extent, so the boots will help keep him from wearing faster than he grows.

He may still need shoes, but it’s a very different story when you have decent feet to nail into.

[Posting_Trot]

If he’s okay being turned out without boots, and you’re not in a hurry to ride him, then I’d just turn him out and keep him well trimmed. Look out for rocks in the pasture and try to keep him off gravel as much as you can. Paint the soles with DuraSole.

If you do want to ride occasionally, fit him for boots. I’ve used various Easy Boots, others swear by Scoot Boots or Renegades. What really matters is to get something that fits well.

You could add something like Farrier’s Formula or HorseTech’s Glanzen 3 to help with the new hoof growth. But it will take at least 9 months to get that hoof grown in, so you’ve got to do what you can in the interim.

Good luck: I hope he’s a fun project!

[JB]

Ditto Tex - find a good farrier and talk about casting. You can do this for multiple cycles, AND you can cast over a shoe, or add a shoe after casting, for more protection.

Casting will prevent sole from exfoliating, and sometimes that buildup of dead sole can help the foot heal itself, Obviously don’t let it become rigid false sole that impedes healing.

What is the current diet?

What do the feet actually look like? Is this simply a matter of fixing LTLH issues, and the feet just need protection while healthier feet grow in?

[SusanO]

Casts don’t always stay on. Especially if you are dealing with a small broken up foot. Ask me how I know.

There are positives and negatives about using them long term as we did with my mare ( who is now barefoot). Long term they tend to constrict the foot and can pull normal heels into run under heels. They also trap moisture in a damp environment which can lead to crumbling feet. However they can increase sole depth which is good. My vet uses them a lot but does not advocate long term use.

They got my mare through a bad situation but it was REALLY annoying when she pulled them off the day after she got them put on multiple times.

[Spudsmyguy]

My TB has a history of not keeping shoes on, especially the fronts. I have bell boots on now but my farrier suggested a product called “Artimud” . I looked it up on Amazon and it had all 5* reviews but for curing thrush. Farrier says it will toughen the sole and help to build it up. I thought I’d give it a try but I have heard a lot of good reviews of CA Trace and may go that route instead.

[BoyleHeightsKid]

If this horse has shelly crumbly feet I would treat for white line disease and look at the diet… low starch/sugar forage first diet with adequate copper/zinc. Stay away from hoof supplements/forage balancers that have added iron. Test hay and balance vitamins/minerals from that. You will be amazed at how much this will affect hoof health. If this horse raced, I would also strongly suggest to treat for stomach ulcers. You can try treating with OTC Nexium, lots of success stories here Esomeprazole (Nexium) for equine ulcers

Find a farrier/trimmer who understands how to balance a foot. If the horse keeps yanking shoes there is a balance issue that’s not being addressed, most likely long toes/low heels.

California Trace and Vermont Blend are excellent choices for overall health and hoof health.

If you are interested in maintaining this horse barefoot Pete Ramey’s site is full of great information https://www.hoofrehab.com/Articles.html

[JB]

You can use copper sulfate under the cast material, just as if using pads under a shoe. There are multiple ways to prevent thrush/wld while casting.

I’ve never seen casts come off just because a foot was crumbly, due to how the material is applied. I’d be interested in seeing how that worked. I just don’t see how they can be pulled off, due to the shape of the foot, if they were applied properly. Do you have a picture?

They don’t need to be a forever thing. Sometimes 3-5 cycles is all that’s needed to grow enough healthy foot, a thicker sole that you can start again with nails.

[Postandrails]

I’m also curious about the shape of the feet, current angles and any other issues. It is very difficult to improve the quality of the walls and amount of sole if the feet are stretched forward with long toes and under run heels, shallow angles, flaring etc. Good sole depth and wall quality comes from a good trimming protocol which results in a tight white line connection and encourages/allows the coffin bone to sit high up in the hoof, resulting in concavity to the sole. Obviously diet/supplements and the shoeing/casting/booting methods are important, but if there are underlying issues then these will also need to be addressed.

[SusanO]

If you have a bucking running maniac that will not let pain interfere with having a good time then they can step on the heel of the cast running down hill and pull it off. My mare even pulled them off in the stall galloping around because she could not see her friend who had to be separated from her. ( She has a 12x25 stall and she is small and handy and can take off from one end, run and spin when she gets to the other wall). Casts don’t stay on that well with that kind of behavior. Especially when you have been using them for a long period and the heel is pulled under the foot and you don’t have a lot of foot to put the cast on when you keep it off the coronet band. At this point she had nubs basically because she did not grow good hoof wall. She had had white line, foundered when she came out of stall rest a bucking fool and damaged her good foot besides the WL foot. As a vet once said - " Horses , they are always trying homicide or suicide".

She made it through that BAD time and now is barefoot. I spent a lot of time on the road ferrying her back and forth to the vet cursing at her. She had casts on for over a year - maybe two. They stayed on pretty good at first but as her foot contracted and the heel was pulled under they didn’t work so well. A farrier can only work with what the horse grows.

I don’t recommend using them that long but it was a salvage operation with her. I don’t have pictures. Basically the whole cast would be in the stall bedding. But she had little hoof depth so the cast did not come up over her coronet band and was pretty shallow at this point.

[Texarkana]

When my horse’s hoof was being casted, my farrier showed me how to apply it myself. It’s very easy. The benefit was I could replace it every 2 weeks, as they should be replaced. That prevents a lot of the potential issues, like contraction or thrush.

[ake987]

Thank you so much for all of the helpful feedback and questions! I’m going to try to provide a bit more information, below.

• Current diet: Western NY high quality grass pasture is all he’s getting at the moment. I’m going to look into getting it tested. In the winter he’ll be on a round bale of the same from the hay fields out back. He’s at a great weight, so ideally I wouldn’t throw unnecessary grain at him, but only supplement with vitamins/minerals he is not getting enough of from his forage.

• Before it shut down, I followed Pete Ramey’s FB page. The first supplement I thought of to try was CA Trace. I’m inclined to give it a shot.

• I’m currently treating for ulcers.

• He wears fly boots 24/7.

• Balance films revealed 3-5mm soles, but palmar angles are good. The thin soles are his primary issue. We had to take off the race plates before he could be turned out in a group, so he was re-shod up front mid-cycle. Ripping those off the next day really hurt us. Due to the nature of my acquiring him, this all happened very quickly and it’s my fault I didn’t get bell boots on him until after this happened, two days later. Double bells seemed to really help, but the integrity of his foot was already compromised from ripping them off the first time. Fly boots took a week to arrive and the stomping also took a toll. He would have been due 6/29 if the replaced steel shoes could have hung on until then, but by last weekend, his feet were cracking along the nail holes.

• I have a great farrier! He did not want to pursue casting, but I didn’t press for details. I can certainly ask more about this, it is not something I am familiar with. I am hoping that a regular and quality trimming schedule, gaps in his dietary needs being addressed and corrected, moving around 24/7 will all contribute to helping him grow enough quality hoof.

• I’m not optimistic about keeping boots on him, nor finding them when they come off in a thirty acre field, and I can’t afford to replace them on a regular basis. While I’m willing to try them, my trainer and farrier had concerns about the impact they could have on his heels, creating an issue we’re not already dealing with.

• Unrelated to his feet, he had quite the reputation for being a nasty little sh*t at the track. All 15 hands of him. His attitude has undergone an enormous change already with turnout and now wrapping up ulcer treatment. We’re slowly building trust and my friend is sort of astonished I put my face close enough to his without getting it bitten off - progress! He can be quite sweet with me, but others is a work in progress, including farrier (and my trainer/farm owner, who he tries to bite when she checks his field in the morning). Because of this, I am inclined to continue his letting down slowly and methodically with minimized potentially stressful events (like regularly replacing casts, especially if they come off unintentionally).

• We did back rads and he has mild, focal KS, so one thing I’m considering is using boots to hand walk him with a belly band to build and maintain strength. He’ll get regular chiro and massage.

Roy three years ago with me at the track.

Roy last month with me at his new home.

Roy ready for battle a few weeks ago.

[JB]

@ake987

I’m going to look into getting it tested.

I wouldn’t bother. It just varies too much based on where it is in the growth cycle, whether you’ve just mowed it, whether they’re eating more out of shady spots this week and sunnier spots next week, whether they prefer higher ground grass vs lower ground (because the soil content could vary enough), etc.

CT is as good a place as any to start.

3-5mm sole would have me protecting them pretty much full time

He’s ADORABLE

[SusanO]

Well her casts had a special bottom with felt and casting material that conformed to the bottom of her foot and cushioned it and placed support for her heels and frog. So when she would pull them off I finally just sawed the casts in half and put them back on the bottom of her foot where they were fitted. Then I wrapped in vet wrap and elasticon. This would stay on for while. Maybe putting on new casts would have worked better but that can be frustrating if you are a one man show and the stupid things set up before you are ready. Worth trying though. I was so happy when I didn’t have to deal with them any more. They can be useful but are not foolproof!

[SusanO]

I didn’t mean casting material - I meant dentil impression material that conformed to the bottom of her foot which was inside the bottom of the cast.