The people selling these over priced mixed breeds are not breeders. They are greeders, in it for the $$$ not the betterment of any legitimate dog breed. They are plain greedy.
[QUOTE=khall;8536546]
I just do not think you can get the reliable characteristics yet in GD or LD, even with several generations breeding LD to LD. The friend that I have that bought two LD, wanting hypoallergenic non shedding certain size (30 lbs or so) etc did not get that with her two. Last one sheds and is close to 50 lbs.[/QUOTE]
You can’t get reliable characteristics of any breed after only a few generations. Not only do you need more generations, but you need really specific criteria to know whether each puppy is sold as a pet or held onto for possible breeding. I believe there is a “standard” for labradoodles, but I’m not sure all breeders strive to meet it.
[QUOTE=scierra;8536720]
The people selling these over priced mixed breeds are not breeders. They are greeders, in it for the $$$ not the betterment of any legitimate dog breed. They are plain greedy.[/QUOTE]
Totally right! What breaks my heart is the unsuspecting person who pays insane amounts of money for a questionable mixed breed. When they could for the money find a nice pet quality Standard, or Lab or Golden. People are just too trusting. as we know in the horse business it happens there as well.
[QUOTE=Sswor;8534478]
I dunno, maybe because shelties are constant barkers and have serious problems with anal glands?[/QUOTE]
What anal glad issue? My family has had shelties for three generations, been members of regional clubs and active in the obedience ring, haven’t heard of this. If you’re not careful about checking for dingleberries or trimming a “poop chute” you can have a stinky situation but that’s not anal glands.
As for barking, a well exercised/trained dog typically isn’t as unnecessarily chatty. I’ve had shelties while living in apartment buildings and never once had a noise complaint.
[QUOTE=S1969;8536084]
If they’ve been breeding for 15+ years, they should be well past the F1 generation…so why aren’t they?[/QUOTE]
I read somewhere that the creator of the breed said only a F1 cross is a true Goldendoodle. I would imagine that’s why breeders are doing F1 crosses.
[QUOTE=Perfect10;8537486]
I read somewhere that the creator of the breed said only a F1 cross is a true Goldendoodle. I would imagine that’s why breeders are doing F1 crosses.[/QUOTE]
Well then they are not a “breed.” Honestly, though, this makes no sense. You would never be able to predict the characteristics which is the whole point of breeding. 
I agree they are NOT a breed. I think of them more as a fairly reliable cross. (I learned it as a "terminal cross in livestock breeding) I only thought of the F1 as a GD and crossing beyond that becomes way less predictable as with any crossbreds. My main problem with it is that the vast majority of “breeders” don’t used well-conformed, good tempered, health tested purebreds.
They are a successful cross both in terms of marketing and public acceptance. Some recent crosses are not so successful, the Puggle etc.
Doesn’t matter in the end…all dogs bred to sell, whether as mixes or crosses, contribute to the over population of petc. Except for a small group of service dogs, dogs for the allergic, or a group needed to keep a breed going, there is no responsible reason to be breeding more until that time that thousands of dogs and puppies are not being euthanized each week at shelters.
But breeding is profitable so it continues, and it continues to meet demand of a segment of the public who only wants a dog if if is a Disney or toy store version …cute, non shedding , puppy like even as adult. The problem is that some who buy these designer mixes are unrealistic, shocked when the Disney dream puppy pees on the floor, needs training for a long period of time, has high energy, etc.
Combine that with historically when the numbers of a breed or cross rise and prices fall, the next generation of owners are not so committed as the original group of breed or type enthusiasts.
So far the owners of doodles are mainly responsible and committed owners but that can change as a type becomes more popular and cheaper and as has happened with so many beloved breeds.
I have a good friend who had two bought for high $ good reputation breeder doodles ( years apart), while wonderful dogs, one was hyper as a puppy needed professional training for years , now is great, the other was very easy to train but both turned out to have some health issues . These dogs were very lucky to have such a great owner and the truth is nearly any puppy with that level of care, training and devotion would turn out great. .
Who cares if it’s a proper breed? My goldendoodle is the best dog I’ve ever owned. Doesn’t shed, loves everyone and is the smartest easiest to train dog. Fully housetrained, loose in the house at 4 months old, never once chewed or destroyed anything. I did the basic normal training with her and she picked up everything so fast and was just so easy. Everywhere I take her people ask what she is and where can they get one. Honestly I LOVE my doodle and will most likely only own doodles in the future. Why is it so bad that breeders out there want to breed lovable smart doodles? They wouldn’t have become so popular if they weren’t awesome dogs to own.
You do realize that either a Golden Retriever or a Poodle would do all the things your dog does, don’t you?
She likes a doodle. So be it. I like my crossbreed of choice too, I also wish to own nothing but that particular crossbreed in the future. What difference does it make?
My crossbreed of choice is a lot less popular and a lot harder to find then a Golden/Labradoodle as really only the Amish breed them. Maybe when I’m retired I’ll breed my own JRT/ACDs. Lovely dogs.
A golden wouldn’t work I can’t have a 50+ lb dog in my tiny house and I don’t want a double coated shedding dog every again. Keeping the house clean growing up was insane. A poodle of the right size possibly but would they love people and cuddling as much as my dog, possibly not? I love the golden attitude of loving every single person like a best friend within 30 seconds of meeting someone. I haven’t seen that with poodles. I think anyone who wants to purchase a dog does need to do their research and only buy from a responsible breeder and commit to that dog for life.
[QUOTE=stargzng386;8537667]
Who cares if it’s a proper breed? [/QUOTE]
Oh, fffffff…
The pounds are full of ‘who cares’
There might actually be a ‘doodle’ :dead: somewhere, waiting to be found, but looking at death row, because somebody produces mutts by the gross…
Now, I don’t mind purpose bred crosses.
But the purpose of the ‘doodle’ is to make the breeder money, cashing in on a myth, and ignorance of biological laws.
They were meant to become a hypoallergenic service dog, and I applaud the effort.
But it takes more than breedxbreed…
Sad all the doodle hatred here. I have 2- both were rehomed/rescued- one we rehomed from owners who got him from a breeder a few weeks later due to drastic unexpected life changes, the other we adopted from a rescue group at 4 months. They are both amazing dogs. I have seen others come out of rescue groups and they were amazing. Yes they have energy- but nothing any normal dog wouldn’t need( they get a 30 minute walk 2x a day). All dogs should need walks, no matter what the weather is- that is part of being a responsible owner-just because it rains or snows, your responsibility doesn’t stop.
and yes I did rescue mine, but I was looking at a breeder before they came up and I would in the future again.
This talk is like saying why pay for a TBxWB cross because it is a “designer” crossing. By this theory anyone who has paid money to buy a horse who isn’t a TBxTB or QHxQH , HANxHAN is wasting money on a “designer” breed and adding to the over population and slaughter.
[QUOTE=stargzng386;8538148]
A golden wouldn’t work I can’t have a 50+ lb dog in my tiny house and I don’t want a double coated shedding dog every again. Keeping the house clean growing up was insane. A poodle of the right size possibly but would they love people and cuddling as much as my dog, possibly not? I love the golden attitude of loving every single person like a best friend within 30 seconds of meeting someone. I haven’t seen that with poodles. I think anyone who wants to purchase a dog does need to do their research and only buy from a responsible breeder and commit to that dog for life.[/QUOTE]
I’ve virtually never met a poodle that didn’t love everyone. My poodle certainly loves everyone he meets.
[QUOTE=oceanmountain;8538700]
This talk is like saying why pay for a TBxWB cross because it is a “designer” crossing. By this theory anyone who has paid money to buy a horse who isn’t a TBxTB or QHxQH , HANxHAN is wasting money on a “designer” breed and adding to the over population and slaughter.[/QUOTE]
Well, it might be exactly the same thing.
But the main difference between breeding dogs and horses is that the dogs can produce up to 20+ puppies per year compared to the one cross-bred horse that someone might breed - whether a good breeding, or a crappy one. The number of puppies from the 20+ crappy litters per year per bad breeder that end up in shelters and rescues start to give dog “breeders” a bad name.
I do think there are probably some good goldendoodle breeders out there, but I think they are eclipsed by the many that see 20 x $2000 = $40000…“I’m gonna get rich quick” breeders…especially when there is no standard or general expectation for what the puppies will be like.
[QUOTE=oceanmountain;8538700]
Sad all the doodle hatred here. I have 2- both were rehomed/rescued- one we rehomed from owners who got him from a breeder a few weeks later due to drastic unexpected life changes, the other we adopted from a rescue group at 4 months. They are both amazing dogs. I have seen others come out of rescue groups and they were amazing. Yes they have energy- but nothing any normal dog wouldn’t need( they get a 30 minute walk 2x a day). All dogs should need walks, no matter what the weather is- that is part of being a responsible owner-just because it rains or snows, your responsibility doesn’t stop.
and yes I did rescue mine, but I was looking at a breeder before they came up and I would in the future again.
This talk is like saying why pay for a TBxWB cross because it is a “designer” crossing. By this theory anyone who has paid money to buy a horse who isn’t a TBxTB or QHxQH , HANxHAN is wasting money on a “designer” breed and adding to the over population and slaughter.[/QUOTE]
The sad thing is that a reputable breeder would have taken their pups back, not let the new owners have the responsibility of rehoming puppies they’ve had for less than a couple months. That is what so many here are taking issue with, that people are breeding them not because they love and care about the betterment of the breed but to cash in on a fad. They get their puppy money, then you get the dog and you’re on your own.
The other difference between dogs and horses is dogs selling price is determined by the breeder and public demand. Higher the demand the higher the prices. Horses value is determined largely by their potential to excel at a job, whatever that job may be. Imagine a horse with hip dysplasia. Nobody would breed that, because they need to be useful to be worth anything. But people breed dogs with physical abnormalities because the general public doesn’t know how to recognize a dysplasic dog, and by the time their dog shows symptoms the breeder is long gone. Plus, you can manage a lame dog a lot easier than a lame horse.
Nobody here hates doodles, at all. What some of us are distressed about is more breeding, of any kind other than for a service dog (Which most doodles are not being bred or trained for), or another compelling reason. Sure doodles are appealing and for the moment, popular, but unless they are extremely lucky will soon go down the same path of being over bred and then disposable as the the other formerly popular/ fad breeds…including the poodle which it comes from.
People can rationalize a golden retriever is too big and too shedding. But poodles come in THREE sizes, the mini toy and standard…and they are non shedding non allergenic, are smart, people loving etc. So WHAT is the excuse for not just buying a poodle? And continuing breeding the best of them and stop at that? Why breed MORE dogs crossed from poodles ?
All of it is part of the problem…people putting their own shallow desires on to animals and not taking responsibility , one buyer at a time, and one breeder at a time, that it is they themselves, and not some “other” person or party who is contributing to the problem of over pet population .
Why will any of these same people be surprised when within a decade we will see larger numbers of Doodle crosses at shelters and rescues, especially as now the mini doodles and crosses are the new “it” dogs.
It’s simply math, keep producing more animals by breeding more and it results in the puppies and dogs already here having even less of a chance of finding a home because the number of homes is finite and limited.
I have yet to hear any positive attribute of a goldendoodle/labradoodle is that is not equally or more true of a standard poodle.
I find the desire for these dogs puzzling. I’ve known plenty that weren’t as represented (for example, some shed) whereas if you want FOR SURE a non-shedding dog there is a foolproof way to get that-- buy an actual non-shedding breed. The GDs I’ve known are ALL OVER THE MAP phenotype and personality wize-- some ending up MUCH larger than either a poodle or golden individually (the liger phenomenon I guess).
They’re expensive. There’s no standard against which to judge them. As a result you can’t tell whether they’re quality by the records of the parents. People with quality poodles and goldens are off breeding more of their own breed, so you can assume you’re starting with a less quality pool. Individual breeders might be ok but why jump into a big class of people who largely are not?
If you want a hair dog/non-shedding dog, they come in all sizes and personalities from bichons to porties and everything in between.
I don’t get it.
I don’t get paying high prices for mutts either.
I do have to giggle at the disdain at the concern for their “structural problems” as if they have any real job other than being a dog. None of my mutt dogs has had good conformation. Who gives a crap? My current dog has a ridiculous snaggle tooth, crooked legs, was grossly obese when I adopted him. Whatever, he had a good temperament. He is a dog, not a show jumper. His job is to toddle along at my heels and sleep.
However, I got them at animal shelters so…I guess I will be forgiven? I knew darn well looking at the one he would probably have dental bills. But…as for the rest…well, it’s a dog.
