I was really worried about all the discussions on temperament of Graf foals. I am happy to say that my colt out of a TB mare is wonderful to handle. What really surprised me was that as a newborn, he did not have that startle reflex when you would touch him. Most TB and TB crosses I’ve had, will have that skin shiver and a slight startle. I could ride a lawnmower right up to him and he would not move. Instead he would come walking up towards me. Every other foal would be high-tailing it to the far side of the pasture. I am very pleased with him. The only “quirk” he has is the typical Trakehner mouthiness. We did convince him that it was not a good idea of nibble our fingers. Getting him to stop trying to ingest our articles of clothing is still an ongoing process. It does have its up side though. I just hold the Ivomec tube in front of his mouth and he grabs it and I squirt. During the time I was researching the temperament of Graf foals I did communicate with one woman in Germany who has been eventing for 20 years. She had a Graf gelding that she had started evening. I don’t remember his name, but she told me he was the easiest horse she trained in her lifetime. She was very very excited about him. I am in the U.S. This is the page for my Grafenstolz foal. http://horseofcorff.com/sporthorse_foals_westwood.htm
I don’t want to take this thread in a completely different direction, but horseofcorff’s post makes me think about how these anecdotes about relate to the research I’m doing on psychopathy. Psychopaths and psychopathic children have decreased physiological fear responses ie. startle reflex. Psychopathy is characterized by deviant behaviour and a lack of “conscience”. Extrapolating this to horses, I wonder if there is any connection between lack of responsivity in foals and difficult behaviour when the horse is put under saddle. I, myself, am very interested in Graf for breeding, so this point is also of personal interest to me.
Just food for thought! 
[QUOTE=Tradewind;6124191]
I don’t want to take this thread in a completely different direction, but horseofcorff’s post makes me think about how these anecdotes about relate to the research I’m doing on psychopathy. Psychopaths and psychopathic children have decreased physiological fear responses ie. startle reflex. Psychopathy is characterized by deviant behaviour and a lack of “conscience”. Extrapolating this to horses, I wonder if there is any connection between lack of responsivity in foals and difficult behaviour when the horse is put under saddle. I, myself, am very interested in Graf for breeding, so this point is also of personal interest to me.
Just food for thought! :)[/QUOTE]
Personally…I think it would be a HUGE mistake to extrapolate any characteristics of people to horses. Not only are we different species…we are a completely different category of species. Horses are prey animals…grass eaters and live in herds. They are not humans. Having a foal that has less of a startle reflex really doesn’t mean anything…other than he feels safe (and probably has a less reactive dam)… or perhaps is one that would not survive long in the wild;)
[QUOTE=Tradewind;6124191]
Extrapolating this to horses, I wonder if there is any connection between lack of responsivity in foals and difficult behaviour when the horse is put under saddle. I, myself, am very interested in Graf for breeding, so this point is also of personal interest to me.
Just food for thought! :)[/QUOTE]
My Graf foal is very responsive. I said he did not startle. I did not mean to imply that he was unresponsive. He is as responsive, and as affectionate as they come. When we blanket foals who are out in the pasture, we have foals that we have to lead to the barn, and put them in stocks in order to blanket. But there is one foal who never needs to be brought in and confined to blanket him. He stands patiently, mainly because he is just happy for the interaction. That would be the Graf foal. I have only raised in the vicinity of 65 or so foals (all breeds), so I am definitely not an expert. But in my limited experience, the ease of handling the foal will usually be a snapshot of their trainability. I cannot see where any assumption can be drawn that a foal who is not timid or jumpy is a psychopath. Conversely, I am more inclined to call the horse that leaps 10 feet looking at its own shadow a loon, than one who does not.
[QUOTE=horseofcorff;6125518]
My Graf foal is very responsive. I said he did not startle. I did not mean to imply that he was unresponsive. He is as responsive, and as affectionate as they come. When we blanket foals who are out in the pasture, we have foals that we have to lead to the barn, and put them in stocks in order to blanket. But there is one foal who never needs to be brought in and confined to blanket him. He stands patiently, mainly because he is just happy for the interaction. That would be the Graf foal. I have only raised in the vicinity of 65 or so foals (all breeds), so I am definitely not an expert. But in my limited experience, the ease of handling the foal will usually be a snapshot of their trainability. I cannot see where any assumption can be drawn that a foal who is not timid or jumpy is a psychopath. Conversely, I am more inclined to call the horse that leaps 10 feet looking at its own shadow a loon, than one who does not.[/QUOTE]
I did not mean to speak negatively about your foal, horseofcorff, I was more interested in the idea in general terms from the research I’ve done with human adults and children. The term psychopath does not refer to someone who is “loony”, rather they are charming in character but engage in socially deviant behavior. Reduced physiological response to fear in children has considerable overlap with indices of psychopathy, and is the best way to identify this characteristic in children before other indicators such as deviant behavior can be measured. However, the responsivity of your guy as you describe in greater detail is not what I was thinking of when the idea came to me. It was clearly a stretch; I just can’t help when the research nerd in me takes over 
It sounds like your foal is more likely to have that unflappable temperament so desirable in an eventer, so keep us posted on his progress; I am very interested in Graf’s babies for myself in Graf as he is on my list for my mare! :yes:
Quote by vineyridge:
Since he’s a Trak, and Vincent carries the Trak Verband designation, it would be extremely helpful if Maren would chime in here. She’s in Germany, and THE Trak expert, so she might have some facts on his German offspring. Has she ever commented on him that anyone remembers?
Thanks for the honors. That is open for debate though (the expert part
I will try to get this straight, all of this coming from memory, so please excuse if I get some of the dates wrong.
I remember Graf’s approval very well, it was a year of a number of very good stallions in NMS and Graf was a most impressive jumper. Most impressive. Very much like a cat, and nobody really expected that based on his pedigree. His sire, as a young stallion under Dorothee Schneider, was a very good dressage horse, BuCha, fame, the whole nine yards. And to this day Polarion will stick in my mind as one of the best “canter” horses I’ve ever seen. Graf came to NMS from a mare family that is mostly decorated by titles. That does NOT mean these horses are no use in performance, it is rather a reflection of many Trakehner breeders at the time that wanted titles more than sports. We have better (more proven) mare families and a string of State and Verband premium titles means pretty much nothing at the end of the day. HOWEVER, this G line also stands for at least two outstanding sport horse sires with offspring at advanced levels in all disciplines, of which I’d like to point out the exceptional Guter Planet. Fabulous sport horse sire. No question about it (ever considered where Hofrat’s impressive movement comes from??).
Graf was the first purebred Trakehner that Gestüt Birkhof ever bought in NMS. He stood to a very limited book in his first year - please consider the size of the Trakehner population for a second. We see about 1500 foals born every year, more or less worldwide (!). So if he bred 25 mares, it was a lot. Sometime in his 4th year, if I remember correctly, he had a rather devastating accident on the phantom (I think) and was out of commission, breeding and riding, for a long time. When Michi Jung got on him, he took the stallion from virtually no saddle experience to training level - prelim - intermediate in one single season. That speaks volumes about the horse’s mental capacity, and it is also a very good reason why in later times, we would occasionally see weird behavior like the one at Lion (which he won) where he stopped in the middle of the green field and it needed quite some convincing on part of Jung to get the horse going again. I have seen Graf probably around 15 times in the flesh, especially in the barn isles (we stabled across from him in 2010), in the warm-up ring etc and I have not seen him misbehave one single time. I DO KNOW that there is this behavior, as others have reported it. However, I always come back to this intense, if not stupid “let’s move him from training to advanced in one season” episode of his young life. THAT did not help!!
The horse moved on, by that time he was breeding moderately, since he was also approved for all South German registries, but we’re a far cry from the 200+ mares he would later get. Out of his very first foal crop, he sent the Baden-Württemberg branded Gin Tonic FBW to the Bundeschampionat (eventing, I think he finished in the top 3).
2004, the famous year of qualifiying for all three major disciplines at the BuCha - not done by any other horse, ever. Again, I have to wonder and ask myself why exactly one young horses needed all that stress. What was the point? The BuCha is not some little show you take on the side, qualifying for it is really really tough for a youngster. Three disciplines? Why not drive him too and try for 4?? Seriously …
He finally competed in what he did best, and won, with a score that I think is still unsurpassed to this day, 9.6 or something like that. The BuCha is in early September, and only about 6 weeks later, he ships to France, has a major hiccup xc (look it up), and still wins the thing.
Next year’s breeding book had I think something around 200 mares, including a lot of Trakehners - the 2005 crop was his “best” in numbers in the Trakehner breed, I think he topped the list of most-used stallions (with most foals born in one season, something like 50). That makes the first significant foal crop comeing 7yrea olds in 2012.
In the meantime, his performance career moved on - CCI*** by age 8 I think, won bronze at the German Champs in Luhmühlen. That is not some little backyard show. This is serious *** material.
At some time that year clients tried to buy him and the very high 6 digit number that was offered did not buy the horse. Talk was of Hongkong etc. I also think that eventually his “program” took a toll - and interest faded. As for offspring results - his get compete at Inter I dressage, *** eventing (short format, Vincent for example) and I’m not sure about show jumping. He bred some really high numbers for a couple of years, but as with all stallions that breed a lot, there is a lot of quality variation in the mares crossed with him.
Graf has a difficult pedigree to work into an eventing program - that is a fact. And maybe it is that which makes him hard to figure out. His genetics scream dressage, while his athletic ability and mind obviously mean something else entirely. He is a very unique animal IMHO as he overcame a lot of less-than-ideal circumstances and performed at a level where most others would have given up. Graf knows what pain is, so much I know. And a horse like this can’t be just a disappointment, let’s move on, next one please. But he is also not your “proven” eventing sire - we’re far from the last word on that. We simply do not know.
Now is the time to watch his offspring, maybe he got lucky and the heterogeneity of the mares crossed with him is less prominent in the UK. Time will tell. In the end, to me, the horse matters most. I really do not care about ownership, promotion etc.
Maren: Informative and insightful, as always. Thank you for that background.
