Hey guys! Looking for experiences switching your horse off grain (if it is a medium-to-hard keeper or ottb, even better). I am swapping my guy off and have never done this before-so I am curious.
What did you switch them to instead, why did you switch them off, and did it help?
Did it help what? There are lots of fads out there. Basically a horse needs a certain amount of calories based on his work load and metabolism. And also a basic level of vitamins, minerals and amino acids to be healthy. There are a lot of ways to achieve that based on what forages are available in your area. The fewer calories the horse needs to thrive, the easier this is. No perfect stock answer.
How are you defining “grain free”?
No bagged feed?
No actual grains like corn, oats or barley?
Something else?
Need lots more info
But in short - it depends on the horse. I Admin 2 horse groups on FB, both about health, one we are VERY emphatic about science and proof, not just “I heard…”
In both groups, it’s incredibly hit and miss whether a horse thrives on a diet that doesn’t include a commercial bagged feed, and it’s not always about the calories.
Sometimes it IS about the calories, because they’re swapping 8lb of feed, for 8lb of hay pellets and the horse won’t eat more volume than that, but it’s in the realm of 12,000 calories (or more) swapped for 8000 calories (or less)
I honestly wouldn’t try it if the horse is eating significant calories. If you wondered if the issue was about a negative reaction to, say, soy, then switch to a soy-free feed for a couple months and see if that helps
WHY are you swapping off?
What are you swapping off from?
What is the new diet?
Why are you switching? What do you consider grain and what are you trying to avoid?
In my lexicon, grains are specifically the product of oats, wheat, mature corn, rice (usually only used as bran or oil) and barley. Flax is a seed. Peas and soybeans are legumes, not grains. Beet pulp is not a grain either, it’s a root vegetable.
Whole grains are different in function than processed brewers grains or wheat middlings or bran flax. However if a horse was allergic to wheat, he would need to avoid whole wheat, wheat middlings and wheat bran.
Grain and legumes can both be bought as single ingredient bags, either whole or cracked.
They can also be a component of what I call bagged mixed feeds which is what many people call “grain” whether or not there is any actual grain it. Bagged mixed feeds may be fortified or unfortified with extra vitamins and minerals.
Some bagged mixed feeds like old school sweet feed or COB are unfortified and contain mostly grains. Some modern mixed feeds are fortified and contain mostly non-grain ingredients like beet pulp, alfalfa meal, soy, and maybe some wheat middlings or brewers grains that boost protein without bringing a lot of carbs. These can be good choices for many horses who are OK with all the ingredients.
IME the number one thing for good health and weight is adequate top quality hay. I gave up on all the random local grass hay and just feed commercially grown Timothy. When I’ve need to put weight or muscle on a horse, I’ve used alfalfa which is a boost in protein, calories, and palatability. If your horse is underweight I would suggest free choice good hay and up to 30 per cent alfalfa. If your horse is a picky eater like some OTTB or older horses, I would look at ulcers and teeth.
If your horse keeps his weight with good free choice hay, you do not need to feed either bagged mixed feeds or straight grains for calories. If your horse cannot keep weight on with free choice hay, you could consider one of the “cool calorie” feeds that are alfalfa meal pellets with soy oil. They are very very palatable and a great carrier for oil which can be messy in a mash. Obviously there is no actual grain in this formula.
Once you have the calories figured out, you still need to think about vitamins and minerals. You can get a ration balancer which is a pelleted mixed feed with high levels of vm. Obviously if you are trying to avoid common ingredients like soy, you will need to read the labels.
Or you can get a good VMS (I’m currently using Mad Barn Omneity in Canada) and make your own mash of alfalfa cubes and/or beet pulp pellets. That’s my solution as an adult rider in my particular market. As a teen I fed sweet feed!
I am in self board so I have control over my hay supply and I can tinker with my own mash system.
If you are in a boarding barn where hay is rationed or the staff don’t have the bandwidth to make individual mashes, then your options are very limited and I would not suggest trying for any diet modifications outside the parameters of what the people you pay to care for your horse are able to offer.
@SusanO I am just looking for general, so did it help is a follow up Q to why did you switch them off. Did it help the reason you (general) switched them off grain?
I am not looking for answers specific to my reason why. I am just looking for “I switched off grain to X, for X reason, and it did or did not help. I noticed X difference” - I understand every horse is different and every reason is different. This is just all new to me, so I’m just looking for any and all reasons and results out of curiosity!
How’s this for second hand:
I watched a group of barnmates (I rode there, but didn’t board) get sucked into the “grain free” fad. One had a typical high-calorie-need TB, one had a draft cross, the rest had an assortment of stock types. Low level dressage and trails, but one lady rode her QH HARD.
Anyway, none but the draft cross thrived. All lost weight (draft needed to), duller coats, lower quality feet. All but the draft ended up treating for ulcers and chasing “maybe it’s Lyme or EPM or something”. These were well-researched diets, so it wasn’t like they were just cutting out everything. The TB suffered the most and the quickest.
The issue seemed to be two fold: first, it was very hard to get the horses to eat all their supplements, and the owners spent a lot of money on half eaten bags of various forage pellets and vit/mins. Second, the barn did not provide enough REALLY good hay to support the horses’ needs (by weight, it was mostly fine, but it was local grass hay with lower nutrient and calories than some options). The owners had to make up the difference in supps that the horses didn’t eat or wouldn’t eat fast enough.
Their reasons were mostly “it’s healthier”, plus one or two niggling things that might’ve been food sensitivity or might’ve been completely unrelated. As I said, only the draft seemed to do okay on the diet, but he would eat rocks if you let him and needed to cut down some pounds anyway.
I believe everyone is back on “grain” in some capacity. The horses are looking better and are in work. With the way the barn ran, it made more sense to feed a good bagged, balanced feed for nutrient and calories since the barn hay was lower quality but mostly enough forage.
“Grain free” as in “no cereal grains” is different from “no fortified commercial bagged feed”. Both can be very expensive ways to feed horses if you don’t have the excellent forage base to back it up. I agree that taking a horse off of soy and wheat in a logical manner is a good way to see if you have some background allergy issues to deal with, but taking a horse off all grains/balanced feeds just because it’s supposedly “more natural” doesn’t necessarily work.
It’s just not that simple though 
It’s a very different ballgame if you’re changing from 8lb of Purina Ultium, to a forage balancer and Timothy hay cubes, vs 2lb of a ration balancer to the same thing
The only answer is - it works for some horses, it doesn’t work for others, and when it doesn’t work, it’s not always because the new diet wasn’t good on paper
The ONLY way to know if it’s going to work for your horse , is to make the change and give it 6 months. And, that’s assuming that the new diet is well-fortified with enough calories.
It’s like asking “if you switched from Triple Crown Senior to Purina Senior, did your horse do better?” Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
Add on to that the fact that if you’re providing significant calories, it’s usually more $$, since the good v/m and forage balancer products aren’t cheap to start, then you’re adding pounds of hay pellets, and sometimes this “grain free” route has some fat supplement added
Adding on: it is VERY hard to do this type of diet if your horse lives out and eats in a group. If he has a stall to eat hay and bucket feed in, it can be done. If you keep your horses at home or do self care, this is easier as well.
Things to think about (assuming boarding):
Is your horse getting sufficient quality hay? If not, will the barn allow you to store and provide it? Will they reliably soak feed (for long enough!) if you need to make a mash? Will they feed what you provide at all? Are you willing to make meal baggies or cups with everything pre-measured? (Often boarding barns aren’t great about scooping supps reliably.) Will you hire a nutritionist, test your hay? Or will you DIY the research and ballpark the nutrients?
Agree with JB (who is VERY knowledgeable about this stuff, btw), if your horse is thriving on a RB and appropriate hay, this is much easier to do successfully than if you have one that needs a full 8lb ration of Senior or a performance feed and you’d be trying to make the barn feed more hay.
I dont think you can do it well without ample quality hay. Now I’ve never really switched a horse in work. My old horse retired from a stall and sweet feed to a pasture with so supplementation and no crazed teenage gallop rides and got fat and stayed fat. Current Paint mare has been pretty much grain free her whole life, have fed oats from time to time with no real effect. Since she’s chonky and I don’t want metabolic issues I figure the less NSC the better. But my hay is good and I find hay quality makes a huge difference.
I’d say the #1 reason people cut out cereal grains as either an ingredient or single feed is because horse is getting obese and potential metabolic problems. The #1 reason people cut out specific ingredients grain or other (wheat soy alfalfa) is real or perceived allergy or “reactions.”
The other big reason is they saw something online and want to experiment because it’s being oversold by some guru or feed company.
I personally think hay quality is way more important than people want to admit. That includes testing your hay if horse has issues. You can make a horse obese and founder on a pure hay diet. I’ve seen it.
This is exactly the type of info I was looking for, thank you! I have heard of very few people doing this, but the ones I have heard are always very very positive about it, so to hear an account that is not all sunshine and rainbows is especially helpful.
You have my permission to smile, say that’s nice, and keep on walking when Annoying Nograin Convert in your barn wants to grab you in the aisle and badger you about Natcheral Magick.
There are so many horse care issues where that’s applicable.
If someone with an obese pony is trying to tell you how to feed your anorexic 6 year old OTTB just smile, say “so glad Pooky is doing better” and ignore
haha actually, nobody at my barn does this right now (except for the fatter horses that get a handful of balancer or something else, only so they aren’t demons during feeding time) and I don’t know anyone personally who raves about grain-free. My vet suggested I try it and just see how my guy does, and my only knowledge of this is from facebook people pushing it on everyone! Which is why I’m asking here.
What was their reasoning? Is this the NQR guy with the wildly negative angles, or someone else? Did they want you off a certain grain, all grain, or fortified feed?
In order to truly “see how he does”, you need a thing to measurably improve. Hoof quality, weight, energy, metabolic stats, etc. Or, if you know your barn is feeding a low quality feed/hay and you want to try something better, that’s possible to do without going WAY over to “grain free”.
Sadly, my experience says that most who cut out those actual cereal grains is because they’ve bought into the hype that all grains are inflammatory 
Same with soy
But you’re right that hay/grass can easily make or break these diets, as most people have no idea that the 8lb of feed they use, is making up for the shortcomings of the hay, either in quality or quantity
what reason did your vet give? What would s/he like to see change about your horse? What doesn’t s/he like about the current diet? Keep in mind most vets know way, way too little about nutrition, and themselves often buy into the invalid hype about the detriments of commercial feeds and/or the benefits of a non-commericial diet
OK, I’ll play… 15 years ago, we moved onto a larger farm, with alfalfa/grass hayfields. I have TB and TBX horses. I have a herd of retiree/pets, who now live together, outdoors, year round. They graze in summer, and get free feed hay in winter. No grain. No problems, everyone has been healthy and carry good weight. They have a TM +selenium salt block available under shelter (the selenium washes out if out in the weather). The ones I ride, come into paddocks in the summer months. They get free feed hay, as much as they want or will eat (we have lots), and some grazing at night when possible. And a bit of soaked beet pulp (1 cup per horse), with one cup of high fat extruded kibble, and a mineral mix. the extruded kibble is mostly just to convince them to eat the mineral mix with the beet pulp to glue it all together. All are barefoot, just because they no longer need shoes, feet grow thick walls and soles, no problems. Other than the extruded kibble appetizer, I haven’t purchased actual “horse feed in bags” since making the move here.
In my case my 3 horses get a Ration Balancer over a bagged grain ( fortified or unfortified) because they just don’t need the calories.
My 2 older mares have never needed the calories from any form of feed ( grain or no grain) and really don’t need a RB but they like getting a little something and it helps balance out their diets without feeding supplements.
My gelding was on 4-5 pounds of Ultium when I got him as a yearling and he needed that in addition to hay and pasture as he grew . I switched him to something a little less expensive ( Impact mare & foal) until he was 3 and then onto Strategy Healthy Edge . Feeding both at 4 pounds a day because he still needed more than forage alone.
At 4.5 I switched him to a Ration Balancer and he has been on that ever since and needs a grazing muzzle part of the time on grass .
For me the switch in feeds is all about what they need to be healthy. No way could any of them be fed safely on regular bagged feed at the recommended amounts, so it is basically a waste of my money to underfeed it and buy a supplement.
I pulled my horses off commercial feed and took them to alfalfa pellets + Vermont blend pro + hull free oats as needed, which ranges from none to a lot, depending on the horse.
I’m pleased with how they’re all doing. My hardest keeper old lady mare eats better than on commercial feed. Some weird immune ish issues have resolved. There is a small hassle in soaking, and that timing.
Depending on how you’re defining “grain free” I’m either grain free (no commercial feed) or grain heavy (oats.) 
Having them at home minimizes any headache, and I’m also able to purchase hay that fits their specific needs, which can be tough at a boarding barn.
Yeah I think in this case I am talking no commercial feed, but I haven’t sat down and had the full conversation with my vet yet to understand what we’re trying to fix and why (we haven’t switched anything over yet).
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