Trying to help a friend who wants to try her 10 year old TB on a grain-free diet. He’s a harder keeper currently on 2qts of Purina Ultium and 20-25lbs of good quality alfalfa/Timothy mix hay.
She’s thinking of doing a mix of beet pulp, alfalfa pellets, and rice bran (plus a v/m supplement), but isn’t sure how much of each to include. He’s a 17.2 hh eventer in moderate work for the winter.
What is the reason for wanting grain free specifically? And is the horse really a hard keeper? 2 qts of grain isn’t much for some horses. If a 17.2hh horse is only eating 2 qts feed and 20/25lbs of hay a day and underweight I’d call it underfed not a hard keeper. I’ll add that even if she ment 2 qts twice a day that’s still not much for a horse that size!
I’m just curious, why switch to grain free? Does she think that the beet pulp/alfalfa pellet/bran mix will help him gain weight? I see no issue with the combo proposed, but it would be helpful to know what the goal is in going grain free.
I had to look up the Purina Ultium (I feed Equine Senior, but my horse is 27), and the feeding chart shows 7.5 pounds/day for a moderately worked horse of his stature. I don’t know what Ultium weighs per quart, but maybe the 2 quarts a day isn’t enough for his work load? Maybe add alfalfa pellets and beet pulp to the Ultium he’s getting?
My 17.2h 3/4 Thoroughbred (in winter) gets 3qts~3lbs Senior + 3qts~4lbs alfalfa pellets + his supplements (2X a day) + all he can eat Bermuda hay + whats left of his pasture. He is a hard keeper in winter only (but he’s also not in work either).
@FraggleRock , @4LeafCloverFarm
I’ve tried to convince her that she’s underfeeding the Ultium. I showed her the chart on the back of the bag and she just says that she was always taught never to feed more than 2qts of grain per day. As a member of the “feed by weight, feed as directed” crew, it drives me nuts. Not to mention that her horse is working hard during the eventing season, and needs the fuel… but arguing with her about quantity of grain has proven pointless thus far.
She wants to go grain-free because her horse has some allergy issues, and she wants to see if eliminating processed grains (soy, etc.) from his diet helps with that. So if she was going to do a mix, how much rice bran/alfalfa pellets/beet pulp should she include?
Normally I’d suggest adding hay first, but we board at the same barn and both of our horses are at the upper threshold for hay the BM is willing to provide, so that’s a no-go.
Equijewel (rice bran product) recommends 1-2 lbs on top of other stuff so she could work up to that. Alfalfa pellets are just hay pellets so in theory as much as he’ll eat I would expect and the beet pulp is probably not much good for a hard keeper, really not calorie dense for the amount of bulk you would need to feed.
I would think there was way much less than 2 qts of grain in 2 qts of Ultium.
Contents of Ultium;
Wheat Middlings, Ground Soybean Hulls, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Cane Molasses, Dried Beet Pulp, Stabilized Rice Bran, Soybean Oil, Vegetable Oil, Ground Oat Hulls, Ground Corn, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Flaxseed, Calcium Carbonate, Lignin Sulfonate, Salt, DL-Methionine, L-Lysine, Citric Acid, Dried Whey Solubles, Choline Chloride, Iron Oxide, Vitamin E Supplement, Propionic Acid (A Preservative), Thiamine Mononitrate, Sorbitan Monostearate, Anise Flavor, Fenugreek Flavor, Calcium Pantothenate, Tocopherols, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, L-Tryptophan, L-Threonine, Calcium Iodate, Magnesium Oxide, Cobalt Carbonate, Ferrous Carbonate, Monocalcium Phosphate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Manganous Oxide, Sodium Selenite.
Your friend is likely on a fool’s errand that can harm her horse.
If she is an experienced equine nutritionist who can craft a proper program based upon sound science then God Bless Her. If she is a “lemming” following the “all grain is bad” mantra propagated by folks who know not much but speak loudly then we should all mourn for her horse.
If she wants to have a DIY feed there are many mills who will craft what she wants. It will not be cheap as she is buying for one horse and the “overhead” involved in preparing a custom feed will be substantial. It will be even more for her to “craft” her ration from off the shelf products (for which she will pay full retail including sales taxes and shipping). At the end of the day how will she measure her program?
This approach sounds mondo kool but in reality is just using the poor horse a guinea pig for somebody’s equine nutrition theories.
G.
@Amy3996 - well, that explains it! My senior would shrivel up and well, die, if I only feed him 2qts a day of anything.
I mean, good grief, 2qts is like nothing to a 17.2h horse, let alone one doing eventing! And that’s not directed at you, obviously! 
Anyway, if I were to make up a combo of what she’s suggesting for my horse, I’d start with 4lbs of alfalfa pellets, 1/2lb of rice bran (this can be really rich, so definitely have that be the lowest quantity of the three), and 1.5lbs (soaked weight) of beet pulp - fed twice a day. My guess is that’s not going to be enough - but I’d rather underfeed and adjust up, rather than the other way around.
But I know there are more knowledgeable long-timers here on COTH that would probably have better suggestions on portions (this is just what I’d do for my guy, when he was younger and working - and I’d adjust as needed if he gained too much or lost weight. I own my own farm, so this is a non-issue, seeing them several times a day).
Not all horses like beet pulp - so she might want to try adding that solo to the Ultium first to see if he will eat it. For more weight gain, up the bran slightly (maybe 3/4 pound at each feeding).
Switching over should take at least a week (I’d go for at least two+) - slowing getting rid of the Ultium. But I’d say for this horse, since she’s so stuck on the 2 quart rule, that he’ll be better off with a non-grain combo, since her 2 quart rule won’t apply. But during the switch over she needs to keep an eye on his stools - alfalfa pellets + bran is a fairly rich diet. So make sure any noticeable changes in his poop are watched for carefully.
Correctly speaking ‘grain’ is the product of cereal crops - that feed has wheat middlings and some ground corn but apart from that no other grain at all. Soy is a legume not a grain and the oat hulls are just the casing around the seed so just fiber with no nutritional value.
Feeding the suggested daily requirement won’t hurt the horse but if you exceed it you’re more at risk of over supplying Vitamins and minerals, particularly selenium and iron.
Beet pulp’s good for weight gain and so is rice bran so adding either or both to the existing feed would work. If you’re worried about NSC levels then don’t buy beet pulp that’s had molasses added to it. Beet pulp compares well to cereal crop produce in terms of calories but safer in terms of starch and sugar for a horse that might be IR
Hard keeper because it’s getting 2 quarts a day and 20-25 lbs hay? Yeesh, she’d consider mine ruthlessly impossible keepers, then.
Several years ago I put my mare on a no-grain diet to combat recurrent ulcers.
She got free-choice grass hay (ate probably 25-30 lbs/day), 4 lbs alfalfa pellets AM and PM, rice bran oil, and a multivitamin.
She didn’t love alfalfa pellets, so it only lasted about 6 months, but she maintained weight okay for the duration.
I don’t care for beet pulp, myself.
If she wants to go grain free she will fail with Ultium since it has ground corn.
I’ve never heard that - where did she hear that? I suspect she remembers a few numbers and is rearranging them. 5lb is typically the recommendation, or a bit less if a feed is too much under 1lb/qt
She wants to go grain-free because her horse has some allergy issues, and she wants to see if eliminating processed grains (soy, etc.) from his diet helps with that.
Soy isn’t a grain. What is her definition of “grain”?
So if she was going to do a mix, how much rice bran/alfalfa pellets/beet pulp should she include?
That entirely depends on how many calories he needs.
Ultium, at the lowest end of the feeding rate, plus a fat source, is going to be the lowest volume of food she can feed to increase calories.
And what if his allergy deal (which is…?) is to alfalfa?
Normally I’d suggest adding hay first, but we board at the same barn and both of our horses are at the upper threshold for hay the BM is willing to provide, so that’s a no-go.
Can she provide extra? More hay is cheaper than commercial feeds.
Ultium is roughly 1900 cal/lb. Both beet pulp and alf pellets are roughly 1000. At roughly 1.3lb/qt, 2qt of Ultium is 2.6lb. That’s almost 5000 calories.
Alf pellets are roughly the same - 1.3lb/qt (about 3c/lb), but fewer calories by over half.
Beet pulp is way, way lighter - roughly 1lb/2.25qt (about 9c/lb for shreds).
Honestly, she needs to feed the appropriate amount of Ultium and go from there.
@JB - agree with all of the above. If it were my horse he’d be getting the full recommended ration of Ultium. But he’s not, and she’s hell bent on getting rid of the grain. So I’m doing what I can to figure out a way to ensure she doesn’t starve the horse in the process. Sigh.
ETA: She hasn’t done any testing to determine what allergies might be present. I think this is a wild goosechase borne out of too much time on the internet. But again, it’s not my horse, so my hands are sort of tied.
I took my two to a similar diet. I did not a million types of feed and wanted to be able to scale up and down easily for work. My TB mare has been off all year as I had other priorities but is currently on:
Timothy( weighed to ensure correct amount)
2lbs alfalfa pellets
1 lb beet pulp ( weighed dry)
TC 30% ration balancer
when in full work to show pellets would increase to 5 lbs and BP to 3, split into two feedings.
I have one that is IR and have found I am able to keep NSC to a reasonable level using this combination.
I know this sounds harsh but she’s being pretty ignorant. If the horse has allergies, consult with the vet. She’s underfeeding her horse. Why are you asking for advice and not her?
It doesn’t sound like she is ready to be rational. If her horse starts looking like crap on her “grain free” diet, maybe she will be more open to suggestions. Why don’t you just let it go until she is in a different frame of mind. What is NOT helping you is that you are consulting anonymous internet sources - why should she believe you? “I read online” is not a legitimate source of information. Probably what she is reading online contradicts what you are reading online.
Last I weighed it was 1.2 pounds per quart.
I feel for you, OP. You’re heart is in the right place concerning both your friend and her horse. Rather than get into specifics concerning the diet, maybe you might make more headway by recommending that she either consult with an equine nutritionist (which would be cheaper in the long run as compared to experimenting with her horse’s diet), or at least use a program like FeedXL to ensure that whatever she decides to use meets her horse’s nutritional requirements?
My though has been not to exceed 4-5 quarts/feeding, as that has been considered the average volume of the equine stomach. Note I said average, I suspect volumes are variable with size and breed. And, I do believe rice is a grain, so rice bran would be out.
I have heard the whole grain free thing in the canine world, I didn’t realize it had wormed its way into some equestrian brains.
I wish Amy luck with her friend.
Horses here would expire without their spring seed tops from the pasture grasses.
Thanks for all the feedback, everyone! The rule of thumb I was always taught was no more than 4-5lbs per feeding. I don’t know where she’s getting her info but she’s set on it. I did persuade her to subscribe to FeedXL, so hopefully she can use that to get a better grasp of how this is all going to fit together to meet his nutritional needs.
I think her strategy is to eliminate store-bought “concentrate” feeds (like Ultium) from his diet. I suppose “grain-free” wasn’t the best term to choose. I’m just trying to offer little bits of information where I can to hopefully keep her from completely crashing and burning on this little adventure.
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