At shows, do you prefer Full-Care of Half-Care? Usually I prefer full, but it depends on the show and how many horses I have. How many Mexicans does your barn usually bring? Do your Mexicans speak English? Only some of mine do so it makes it hard.
<3, Kelsey
[This message has been edited by Kelsy (edited 10-11-2000).]
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by magnolia:
here we have the rich girl with horses and the money for grooms being stomped on for well, being rich
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nonsense!!
An uneducated statement was made on the board and commented upon. You don’t know which of the people who responded are richer than Midas or poorer than a church mouse.
Most respondents tried to educate, not ‘stomp on.’ I never stopped to consider the economic status of the poster; apparently you did and think it matters. Do you think if the poster prefaced her comments with “I’m poor” we wouldn’t have the same reaction to the Mexican comment?
At shows, do you prefer Full-Care of Half-Care? Usually I prefer full, but it depends on the show and how many horses I have. How many Mexicans does your barn usually bring? Do your Mexicans speak English? Only some of mine do so it makes it hard.
<3, Kelsey
[This message has been edited by Kelsy (edited 10-11-2000).]
Wow, I didn’t think htis many people would reply but thank you all- I was really steamed and you restore my faith in the horse world.
FYI I have worked many seasons as a groom, although always as a working student/ground person (so not quite the same thing)and most people are very nice (or they can clean their own $%$%ing stalls! is actually our attitude). I have also worked many years as a rider with grooms to help me and I can tell you a good groom is worth their weight in gold to any training or show barn which is why so many of them work for the same trainer for so long-the clients may be idiots but they know they are truly appreciated by the owners/ trainers who need experienced people to help them get throught 25 horses a day. Having said that I stand by my original “no patronizing” comment, ESPECIALLY for young people- remember you are one tolerant parent away from grooming to pay for your own show habit. Yes I have worked in Europe and for Europeans in the states and they will exploit you every bit as much if not more (see the recent stories in England about laws to protect stable workers) BUT they will not expect you to be grateful for it.
Happy horsing
I’m sure it wasn’t meant to be derogatory, but I agree with you, Paige. These people deserve our utmost respect and appreciation. We don’t have “grooms” per se at our barn, but there are a few Mexican men who are employed by the owner to do stalls, feed, turn out, and keep the grounds. I respect and admire them so much. They have left their country, family and friends, to come here and do the wonderful job that they do in order to make a better life for themselves and their families. I can’t say enough good about their work ethic, and their love of family. The poster above is right–the horses love and trust them; horses are a pretty good judge of character, I think.
I don’t see the Mexicans’ presence as taking jobs from Americans—businesses are crying for help here, and we sure have plenty of Americans still on welfare…don’t get me started! I think a lot of us could learn a whole lot from them.
Wazup homies?? At da shows I got da full care thang goin on. Ma grooms (Felipe, Gualdalope, and Jose) tack all ma horses and do all dat stuff. When I ride at home ma grooms just be dere for da moral support… ya no yo?? Day are just dere in case i need 'em.
I think dat at da shows, when yo got more den 3 or 4 of dem horses, you need da help. I aint sayin that yo cant do it without 'em but it helps yo.
Ma grooms and I be very tight. We show da love. I think dat you people at 'em boards need to show da love a lil more. Dis fightin aint goin no where. Jus because some of us people got da groom thang doin on doesnt mean dat we be rich snobs, ya no what i mean yo??
At shows, I’m on full care, mostly because I’m usually late getting on with help… imagine if I wasn’t on that plan? 
And it just makes me less stressed, which I found helps me relax more (duh) and I end up having a better show because I’m more focused. Our barn usually brings around 2-3 grooms, no one has their own personal groom and not everyone is on full care. At most shows, we’ll have around 4 people (including 2 of the trainers) helping out w/ grooming, plus any of the students who aren’t showing that day usually pitch in and help out to make it a little easier.
it seems so disgusting.
“People seem to think that because I asked if they spoke English I said they were dumb. They’re not dumb and I know that. I was just wondering about the langauge because I don’t speak any Spanish so I can’t communicate well with mine.”
with MINE? uhhh, yours? do what?!
do you own these people? since when?
I’m sorry, this was frustrating. I work in a coffee shop and would most definitely prefer to be working at the barn but truthfully there’s reasons why I never asked for a job there and they have nothing to do with loving horses or barn work (I used to work a ton of hours for free, and I LOVE doing barn work, but the reason I stopped being able to also coincides with the reason why I won’t get a job there)
I love grooming for shows on the grounds that I get treated like a person, and if I don’t, I just won’t do it. I don’t get paid for it. I’ve got other ways to spend my weekend, but I love horses and horse showing so I’m always glad to groom if someone wants me to.
I just think it’s really derogatory to refer to grooms as “mexicans” and as if they were yours, cause they’re really not. I know it’s kind of the same thing as when you say “my trainer” but it just sounds so much worse.
I’ve never had a groom and sometimes it scares me when people do stuff for me at the horse shows, I’m like “I can do this! No, let me get off and put on the hoof polish!” and then someone’ll growl at me to stay on my pony so I don’t get dirty (but knowing me I’ll get dirty anyway)
I don’t know
people that treat their grooms like slaves need to be broke for a while and see what it’s like to do their own work
When I lived in England as a groom I was illegal and didn’t have a “green card”.
I was referred to as the “American”, "Yank’, “Yankee” sometimes with “Girl” added to that.
I never took offence to it.
I also worked long hard hours and got in return room, meals and 20 Pounds a week pay.
Since I wasn’t legal, the “Lads” took my horses to the races, and kept any tips the owners gave them that were really for me.
Being a groom no matter where, is a hard but well worth it job.
The memories and experience of learning to cope through just about anything is something I would never trade.
[This message has been edited by Bumpkin (edited 10-12-2000).]
I feel like I am in congress where all they ever do is fight with each other when they should in fact be making laws.
Oh now I have offended all the people who have ever known a congressman . . .oh I have also offended all the people who have ever lobbied to get laws passed . . .and i have offended anyone who ever wants to be a congressman and now I have offended all the people who want it to be called congresswoman . . see how this can get a little out of hand???
This is getting a little ridiculous guys . . .Kelsey was just trying to start some threads that she thought people would want to respond too. After all most of these topics (as well as hers) are about showing. I do not have grooms (and some of the grooms that I have come to know and love ARE IN FACT FROM MEXICO . . .aka MEXICANS) or a scooter or a golf cart or show at A shows or drive a BMW or whatever but I was not particularly offended by Kelsey’s posts. I understood that she was just trying to start post’s and may not have posed them the best way.
I think that at one time or another everyone on this board has said something that offended at least ONE other person on the board but did they get totally bashed . . . ?
I am surprised (although glad because everyone’s opinion is important . even if we don’t agree with it) that Kelsey is still here. I hope that you all have not totally scared her into hiding . . however maybe if she went into hiding she could start a peep protection program . . . . .
In a past life we always did the do-it-yourself method of horse showing. We were so small and at times I thought we looked a bit like The Grapes of Wrath pulling into the show grounds.
My recent experience of going to a show with our local barn was interesting. They had taken a groom and when we arrived my natural instincts kicked in. I felt compelled to help clear out the stalls for bedding, unload the trailers, sweep do what ever. Pretty soon I started to get the feeling I really was in this guy’s way. He had a system and an incredible sense of order. I had to FORCE myself to go sit in a chair. It was a new experience.
I will say I could adjust to having someone do the prep work at a show. I have done plenty of bonding with my horse on a daily basis. It would be a treat to me.
As far as our demeanor to the grooms. They abolished slavery years ago. They are employees and of course should be respected for their work.
I took some “new to the horse show world” people with me to the Oaks a few weeks ago. WE spent alot of time standing at the back gate areas. And you know one of the things they were most appalled at was the way the “kids” seemed to be treating the grooms. And I know there are those of you out there that DO NOT do this, I have witnessed. However I did see a couple, walk up to their horses, say to the groom, “I am ready.” or “My boots.” Put their leg up for a leg, get on and walk off. Without as much as comment to the groom. I have probably mumbled more to my mounting block.
Don’t forget there is a universal language, everyone appreciates. That look into someones eyes, and smile. Thank you is also pretty well accepted in most languages. They are people that you trust to take care of your horse. Treat them with dignity.
Erin, your comments are definitely appreciated and I’m glad to hear you did at least get my email.
Woodbern - there is no need for me to start a new board, as I plan on continuing to read and post right here. This is not the first time an offensive post has shown up on the board and also not the first time ‘exercised’ comments have followed.
I live near a ton of Mexicans and they are the nicest people I’ve ever met. They set a fabulous example for how we should live. Those grooms you have now, in 20 years, their children will be horse owners.
I hope that everyone (no matter how you refer to them mexicans, grooms, hispanics whatever) appreciate what they do for you. It pisses me off when people write them off as being dumb. It happens all the time here. I see sales clerks treat them so rudely and accuse them of being dumb it makes me sick (all because during their 60 hours of work a week building your cheap house, they haven’t perfected their english.)
They are intelligent people with a lot of common sense and inherent good naturedness. I have a feeling they will comprise a large quantity of our leaders in the future.
If people here can handle talking about eating disorders, alcohol/drug abuse, and homosexuality, you can certainly handle this.
I’m not here to babysit and remove the threads that make people act like kindergarteners. If you all dig yourself into a hole, as Kelsy did, you’re going to have to dig yourself out. If you disagree, you’re going to have to sort it out without name-calling.
The reason I deleted Anyplace Farm’s post is because it was insulting and downright mean. At least Kelsy’s insults were inadvertent.
Now either find something constructive to talk about, or agree to disagree and drop it.
Wow…I really thought those first posts were a joke. When I realized they weren’t, I was so DISGUSTED that I had to force myself to stay away from my computer for an entire day so that I wouldn’t say something that would get me kicked off here.
This past summer, my barn took 11 horses to a week long “A” show that was 3 hours from home. Do you know how many Mexicans (or other grooms) we took? NONE!!! Everyone took care of their own horses!!! One rider was a our designated braider, and we all paid her for that. A lot of people pitched in on mucking, feeding, etc. and our coaches did all the late night/early morning stuff (in addition to coaching!). My friend and I spent an hour digging trenches in the rain because the grounds were flooding and we thought it was more important that our horses stayed dry then us “being relaxed before our class” was.
I’m not even going to get into the racial slurs thing…although that was pretty bad in and of itself. But who says that any groom deserves to be treated like a peice of property? I’ve got to agree with whoever said that it sounded like “how many Mexicans are you bringing?” could easily have meant how many tack trunks or saddle pads.
Kelsey, not to single you out, but someone said that you are probably young. Well, I’m 16 and I find it disturbing that it is okay to act that way if you are young. If you are not taught properly when you are young, what do you think is going to happen when you are “old enough to know better”??? When you hit 18, you don’t suddenly transform into a P.C. person, not unless you were taught earlier. Please, everyone do all us teens a favour, and don’t assume that because we are “only teenagers” we don’t know any better. You bet your a** we know better, some of us choose to act like snots anyway!!!
BTW, how did the American horse show world get so elitest that there is now a market for illegal immigrants to flood up there and take all these jobs as grooms? Don’t any of you guys actually do your own work?!? Okay, so it is a huge generalization to say that all Americans use grooms, or that all Canadians don’t. But when a teenage girl gets on this bb and casually asks, “how many Mexicans do you use, do they speak english?” and gets dozens of replies going, “well, I bring 2 or 3, most of them only speak spanish” it really gives a bad image of your country. Why don’t all of you who do routinely use Mexicans try going to one show and doing the work yourself. I’m sure if you do, you will notice 3 things:
Now that I’m late for school, I’m going to go…sorry for the length. And thanks to everyone who expressed similiar disgust…scary, isn’t it?
To be fair Kelsy was far from the only one to offend on the first page of this string, and so far I believe she is the only one to apologize. Short of forcing everyone who has posted on this string to actually work as a groom for one month I think the point has been made as forcefully as possible in this venue that any person who works for a living is entitled to a respectful attitude however little they earn or however much you earn or are worth. If they didn’t need the money they wouldn’t bother work. Forget that and evantually life will find a way to explain it to you again. Look at all those celeb exposes! “Horse trainer writes Tell-All” =)
[This message has been edited by letsgo (edited 10-17-2000).]
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Canter:
[B] Anne would it have been any better if ErinB had asked, “Why is it in the United States that so many Hispanic people have chosen to enter the equine industry in the past ten years?”
Perhaps that’s what she was asking? And if so, wouldn’t this be a legitmate question? Not being confrontational. Just asking. Genuinely curious. [/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Amazingly enough, I was just reading some research papers on the uninsured and small business labor market differences in California, to be exact (what kind of job requires this sort of exciting Friday afternoon activity, you ask? Don’t… 
) Here are some interesting thoughts and numbers from the research paper…
“…However, it is important to note that Hispanics are not necessarily less likely than other races to be insured simply because they are Hispanic; Hispanics are often less educated and earn less than workers of other races…”
Additionally, here are some key statistics:
% hispanic workers at or below poverty level - 14% (white = 4%)
% hispanics earning less than $10/hr - 58% (white - 35%)
What you have here is the age old quandary of a booming economy along with a disparate education system. If you were born/raised in Mexico or a poorer neighborhood in this country, your access to an education system that would give you the kind of education that could effectively get you out of the $10/hour ($21,000/year) labor market is limited at best.
However, given the incredible shortage of labor, and the general unwillingness of the “white” american labor market to engage in agricultural labor, the US has a huge demand for someone, anyone to do the work. So, not surprisingly, there has been a huge influx of green card and illegal immigrant labor filling these (and other low paying jobs). Due to legal and education status, it can be very difficult to move up the pay scale ladder, but as with every other immigrant population, it will eventually happen.
(Example - my german immigrant great grandparents worked in low paying jobs… their kids had better ones, and so on. Of course, things were drastically improved when some of the grandkids had the foresight to marry some very well-educated Mexican-Americans…)
Wow! here is a topic I never imagined I would be talking about on a the BB!!
Hmmm… you mean if it isn’t fair to stereotype about grooms, it might be equally unfair to generalize/stereotype about the rider? That every person, regardless of race, gender, occupation, hobby or income level must stand and be judged on their own merits?
Nah… I don’t think we are ready for that kind of radical thought…
Guys, please turn the discussion away from each other. Be nice, or I’ll pull the plug… I’ve used up all my patience for the week.
I prefer full care too. It is just too hard to take care of all of my horses with out any help. I still do things with my horses. I take them for hand walks and sometimes help tack them up. I think that is important not to ignore your horses even thought you can have others do the work. I am always spoiling them with treats!
I get half care when I only have one horse. That way I do everything except feed and muck stalls. And that definatly makes it easier on me! I dont ahve to get up at 6 to feed or run back to the barn in the middle of watching a division to muck my hroses stall!
What do you guys prefer?
We usually only bring 2-3 because we have a small barn but it depends how many get full care and how many peopl get half-care.
Only one of ours speaks English but it is ok because my trainer speaks Spanish.
[This message has been edited by Sandstone (edited 10-11-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Sandstone (edited 10-15-2000).]
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