Hey guys! I got a new horse last week, but am unable to ride him as I do not have a saddle that fits him yet. He will be an eventer, but we are focusing on flatwork for the next 2 weeks. Our first (schooling) show is in 3 weeks- dressage, and low jumpers (2’0" or less). He is lean, but not well muscled (getting there… I have been riding him for 2 weeks now), he has his leads, lead changes, seeking contact, transitions, leg yields, and square halt down.
However, he has the awful tendency to “forget” his front end. He reaches under him well with his hinds, but when doing circle work, he really drops his shoulder. It gets so bad I have to pull his head almost 90° over to avoid hitting the fence, because he won’t turn… almost as though he can’t (because he forgets to use his front). So ignoring riding cues for now… I want to know a few things for groundwork.
What can I do on the ground, whether free lunging, lunging, or in hand, to get him to lift and use his front end, and “reach” with his front legs? What can I do to keep his shoulder from dropping and his head straighter through the turns?
A good friend of mine believes he needs to also re-learn his body movements as he has been out of work for a year or two, we think. She says free lunging will be good for this. Is this a good idea, and how often should I let him run around?
I have been working in hand on the “3 gaits of the walk”- collected, free, and extended. I have also been working in hand on lateral movements off of leg pressure (using my hand) and lighter bit contact. Is this a good idea to set him up for easier, more harmonious turns, transitions, and riding later on, or not?
What are good exercises to build muscle when not riding? I’m currently focusing on varied work (some intense flatwork at beginning of lesson, more relaxed hill work/cool off outside). I have access to a bank, hills, but mostly flat area. I would love to ride, but I don’t want to ride him with an ill fitting saddle.
You are or are not currently riding this horse in lessons? You do or don’t have a saddle?
You want to take him in a jump show in 3 weeks but he is so uncoordinated he runs into fences? How is that an good idea?
Do you have a coach? Do you have a good coach?
There is a lot you can do with teaching lateral work in hand but you really should get a coach to show you.
As far as a horse lacking balance. You need to get the hind legs engaged and active and that will help sort out the front end. Then you need to get the horse bending and flexing.
Question: how broke is this horse? What did he do before you got him? What were the good points about him that made you buy him?
I’m thinking you have yourself a green horse that hasn’t learned to balance on a circle yet.
Cancel the show plans and get a good coach who can train green horses.
I have ridden this horse lots, but I’m not currently riding him because my saddle does not fit him now.I am a trainer He does not run into JUMPS, rather he needs work on his left hand turns, but is a beautiful jumper.
He is well balanced at the trot, and the show is not so much a show- he is entered in it as a basic test of his skills- for me, shows are a way to test a horse’s training, more than anything else. I feel he will be more than ready, but he simply needs those 3 weeks to work on and remember his balance (he could, in fact, enter now, but would not succeed). It’s not a jump show so much as a schooling show, and the majority of our classes will be on the flat, in the Developing Horse category.
He’s not green in the least. He hasn’t been worked consistently in almost 2 years but knows his leg yields, sidepasses, square halt, lead changes, correct leads, jumping, jumping gymnastics, rein back, transitions, collection, engagement, impulsion, and contact with the bit. The key here is to bring this stuff back to him, much like review, while he regains his muscle mass, we find a saddle, and he begins to become rebalanced.
Before I got him (2 weeks ago now, that i think of it), he was in a 50 foot by 30 foot pen with 7 other horses (not moving at all), a 4 on the henneke scale, no muscle at all, with cracked, chipping hooves and bad teeth. A week ago, his teeth, hooves, and vaccinations were corrected. His hooves are already far better with the chips and cracks almost completely healed (yes, he has been checked completely for lameness).
Also keep in mind his turns particularly are likely due to an ill fitting saddle, he extends and lifts his shoulders nicely on a straight line, but drops them on a circle.
In short- I am looking for improving that shoulder drop on turns, some lessons (for him- you could call them sessions or exercises) to review and bring back what he already knew, and reestablishing his muscle and movement. He engages his hind end beautifully, but needs to remember how to lift and engage his front while turning. My explanation at the start was terrible, and for that, my apologies.
As you are a trainer, you will know that a horse travels easily in a straight line, but that a circle is much more challenging. You will be familiar with the length of time it takes a green horse to learn to bend correctly on a circle and trot a true round 20 metre circle. I would assume you would also know the basic gymnastics to help create that bend, and that such problems are not corrected quickly because they require not just obedience training but balancing the muscles. You will know that it is typical for a horse to be hollow on one side, and therefore turns to that direction more easily, and that gymnastics to balance that hollowness don’t need to necessarily take place while riding a circle.
If he is unable to turn left because of the pain of an ill fitting saddle, then you have your answer there.
From the back story, this is a reasonably well schooled horse that feel on hard times and ended up as a throwaway. Why? If he has so much training, why was he tossed into the back paddock or dealer’s lot or rescue where you found him? Why wasn’t he earning his keep as a jumper or a lesson horse? What happened to him? Did he go lame, or does he have a personality disorder? Does he bite, bolt, buck, when he is feeling better? Did you know this horse in his previous life, or are you just taking it on faith he can do these things because the seller said so? Does he have a show record that can be verified? By and large horses with that much training keep their value unless something goes very wrong for them. In other words, be prepared to discover that he has something physically wrong with him that doesn’t exactly translate as lameness, or that he has a problem behavior, or that his training isn’t at all as claimed.
I still don’t get the point of taking him in a show of any kind in three weeks time. Even if he is meant to be a quick turnaround project, you are better served by keeping him at home until he is muscled up and balanced. You will not add to his value by taking him out in public as an unbalanced and under muscled mess, or having him blunder about.
This horse will not have built up much muscle, or fixed his balance, in 3 weeks. And you aren’t even going to be able to ride him until when??
If what you want is to get some more experienced eyes on him, go to a clinic. Go to a trainer.
I mean, OK, you are a trainer because you are the person trying to sort this horse out. I’m a trainer too if it comes to it, we all are. But from the questions you are asking, you are not an experienced trainer. You need to find an experienced trainer to help you along and give you some pointers. There is no shame in that. The highest ranked pros have coaches, nobody who gets anywhere gets there trying to go it alone.
Part of my skepticism here is based on the fact that I’ve seen young adults trying to start out as trainers with no guidance, and get into unholy messes. Unless you can perform credibly and your horse is going nicely, you are not going to impress anyone by turning up even at a schooling show with your rescue horse that can’t turn to the left. And while it’s great to come to COTH for advice, my advice is that you need someone competent on your side IRL.
This horse’s owner died and his seller this spring actually knew nothing about him- i uncovered his entire history. That’s why- there’s nothing wrong with him. When his owner died, her husband and kids moved immediately to Germany, they were not horse people.
I’ve already taken him to quite a few clinics.
This show is SPECIFICALLY designed for developing, unfit, and young horses… I mean, everyone’s horse will be out of shape, we have 3 feet of snow still. And I’ve readjusted my entries to take him into developing horse flat classes.
so much for a different perspective. I don’t need a lecture. I’m asking for some exercises to do lunging and in hand. Not a life lesson.
You are throwing out a few red flags as far as doing things that, from what you have described, your horse should just NOT be doing. This is one of those cases. You should absolutely, under no circumstances be working on a collected walk. At best you should have a working walk and free walk. The terminology is important. Collection at the walk is not something to be taken lightly for horses working consistently at 2nd level and 3rd level. A horse being rehabilitated needs to stay away from thinking about collection for months at the very least. You can’t bring a horse back in 2 weeks if they’ve been off for 2 years to any kind of a muscular state where they are ready for collected work. All you will end up doing is making them take shorter strides and tensing their back to do so.
Please seek some outside help. I don’t want to jump all over you, but the words you are using and the decisions you are making are going to lead almost everyone on this forum to ask the same of you. You do not have a solid enough grasp of training to be doing this alone, you need guidance and most of all you need more knowledge to make sure you are making the correct decisions. Best of luck, but please take things a bit slower at the very least.
Emma reading all this tells me that you may be a performance horse trainer, but taking a thin unfit horse to a show of any type is doing him and you a severe disservice. A horse falling on his shoulder that severely is not answering your leg. Your going to the hand tells me you are in over your head with a horse that needs you to ride under the eye of an educated instructor.
I find that transitions every half or even quarter of the circle help keep a horses weight shifted further back which frees up their front end and creates better balance. It also prevents them motorcycling around the circle. The horse needs to be responsive to voice aids. I really like how it tunes them in to you.
Properly adjusted sidereins are helpful for developing muscle, and can help keep that shoulder straight. Lunging in a chambon is also good to develop their back and less restrictive than sidereins so might be better for a horse at this level of fitness.
I don’t like free lunging because it leaves you little control. Free jumping in a chute is another thing and might be helpful for developing his back and hind end. Most trainers have multiple saddles and half pads to fit most horses.
I don’t understand why you would want to take this horse to a show. It doesn’t sound like you have been riding him very much, nor have had the time to develop a relationship with him.
Showing for me was always an opportunity to see how well our training has progressed. I always made sure that I was able to meet all the requirements of the show at home before I tried to reproduce our level of competence away from home. Most dressage riders usually school a level higher than the level they show at.
Unless really well prepared, mentally and physically you are setting yourself and your horse up for failure.
OP, you bought the horse a few weeks ago. You didn’t know him previously. You have no saddle and aren’t riding him. When did you get time to take him to “multiple clinics”?
By clinic I mean a 2 or 3 day intensive riding lesson/training session put on usually by a relatively accomplished or even big name trainer. They tend to cost a bit depending on whether or not it is George Morris or Charlotte DuJardin or just someone regional. Clinics are a good way to get intensive training and feedback from a new pair of eyes. If you want feedback they are a better use of your dollar than a show.
I don’t see where in your story you had time to take him to multiple clinics.
Btw folks sometimes mistake the purpose of a schooling show.
The point of a schooling show is to take a horse and rider that know their job and introduce them to showing in a lower pressure environment.
The point of a schooling show is not to school the horse at the show. I mean, any more than is needed to get over show nerves.
It is showing that is being schooled, not basic training. You are meant to go in the ring and show off a horse that is going credibly not show off your efforts to school.
I don’t know quite what to say. Your posts are confusing. Other than it takes more than 3 weeks to bond and get to know a horse, and if he has training issues at home, they are only going to be amplified at a show. Taking this horse to a show now would be doing him a great disservice.
This. A show is a stimulating and even scary environment where you will be under constraint and pressure. All your problems will be magnified and you won’t have time to school what’s needed.
You could cause behavior problems that will take a long time to fix.
Plus it’s dangerous to others and disrespectful of the show community to turn up with a horse that can’t do the job.
If you are considering yourself a trainer now you need to behave in a professional manner and put your best foot forward at all times. You can’t be successful if you call yourself a trainer but behave like a yeehaw self taught teen and water-ski around the show grounds on a horse that’s unfit and not fully schooled.
If he was in the conditions described and “no muscle at all” 2 weeks ago, he needs to be rehabbed a bit with proper diet and bodywork before riding. Then, depending on age, I would do some combination of longeing and riding on terrain, starting at a WALK only for at least two weeks, then slowly adding in increments of trot. Look up interval training and think of what he needs as a “Couch to 5k” program for horses. This is before you even think about jumping or doing any “dressage.” He needs to do probably 4-6 weeks of forward, straight, and relaxed (with ~4 days/week) to build up a base of fitness and get his muscles working again, before asking him for anything harder.
If he’s older (and sensible enough) I would do less longing and more riding or handwalking straight lines to avoid the strain of small circles on his joints.
While I think the average sound, youngish horse can come in from pasture and do W/T/C under saddle with much less preparation, that is not the horse you have. Think of it as the difference between someone who sits in an office all day (with no gym time and driving to and from the office) and someone who works in a barn all day, and what it would take to get those two different people ready to run a few miles.
I’m still confused as to how a horse purchased 2 weeks ago has been to “multiple clinics” despite 3 feet of snow.
Never mind the whole 3 gaits of walk thing. Please don’t teach the horse to rear with this type of “in hand” game playing. That’ll be a tough nut to crack if you do.
Quick update. The purpose of the show was to introduce him to it in a low expectation low stress way while still participating not at all to showcase any skills. I do not expect to place, just to introsuce him to the show environment.
he will be entered in developing horse classes. Walk trot test a and b, and then Hunter On Flat and Hunter Under Saddle over cross poles and trot poles.
Not a competitive environment just a very friendly low prestige place. Not at all to advertise my training. I am a western trainer, at least that is who I train for on the side as a source of income. [ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:“none”,“data-size”:“small”,“data-attachmentid”:10103839}[/ATTACH][ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:“none”,“data-size”:“small”,“data-attachmentid”:10103840}[/ATTACH]
Even with the training he has received he is proving he will be ready. We will begin jumping next week starting low and making sure that he really knows his basics.
He has improved tremendously, he just needed to come back into work.He is much more balanced and no longer drops his shoulders or leans into the bit, instead accepting light contact with self carriage. He has had past dressage training so it is more a matter of reviewing this stuff, which is something I forgot to say. We also found a much better bit for him and this has helped him to shine.
he is much better with his leads. Straight, correct transitions. He uses his hind end well and travels with impulsion, rythm, and straightness, but is supple when need be without drifting out of a circle. Side reins have really helped him in correcting the overbend of his head and neck, teaching him to reach for the contact, and encouraging him to carry himself.
Our focus now is finding a saddle, working over jumps, and practising our test. He was previously a jumper though so I am not in the least concerned.
i have been riding him as well bareback.
I attached a photo from 4 days ago. He has gained muscle extremely well but I don’t have a before picture. He looks so much better. Now he is at home and on 24/7 40 acre turnout so he will really be able to exercise, gain weight, and muscle as our pasture is on a hill.
i apologize for my very contradictory and confusing posts. I stopped replying for a reason which is to focus on him.
I am sorry how does it?
my apologies. I’m really shitty at properly conveying info over any kind of forum. I’m not sure how it contradicts but I always try to be as accurate and honest as possible.
A horse who “really gives his head” with a curb and “fights” a plain snaffle is not “accepting light contact in self carriage.” In fact, said horse is not on the contact at all and certainly isn’t working correctly.
He does not run into JUMPS, rather he needs work on his left hand turns, but is a beautiful jumper.
I train performance horses. He’s also not a horse I would ever sell.
