He is accepting contact though in a mullen mouth snaffle. I specifically stated that.
whatever.
this is why I hate public forums. Y’all are downright rude, and mean. I have a very complicated history and terrible anxiety anf this just makes me want to get back out the equestrian world.
No you said he gives in a Mullen mouth kimberwick. Sorry you’re not hearing what you want.
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If you hate public forums then I don’t know why you are asking for advice on one.
Your first post and your last post completely contradict each other. There is no way a horse that was going like you described in the first post is going like you described in the second post after a week.
And while horse in photo is in decent weight he is undernuscled. He looks like a sweet old lesson horse, not a jumper or dressage horse of any ability, based on his conformation.
And I don’t understand how or why someone who is working for a Western trainer is buying up a broken down jumper to take in schooling shows and doesn’t have the first clue about basic schooling.
In other words, OP, I think we are being spun a bit of a story here by begginer lesson kid who can almost talk the talk but can’t quite keep the story consistent.
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He’s not “forgetting” his front end. He’s popping his outside shoulder and running through your leg and outside rein. It’s an evasion he’s learned. Could have started for a number of reasons, to get out of working, soreness, lack of proper muscling, etc. A trainer would recognize this.
It was one of the evasions my horse had practiced to an art form before I bought him and if I get lax in my riding he’ll still try it. No quick fix here, just lots of correct riding. You aren’t going to fix his problem in 2 weeks. Or two months for that matter.
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Why don’t you have a friend or someone at the barn take a video? That way we can give better advice on what is going on and how to better answer your questions
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I just read your first post, OP.
I, too, think what you want will take awhile. I also think it’s a strength issue. But in answer to your question and search for a quick solution, here are the two things I’d teach this horse.
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If you are skilled at it and already know what I mean, I’d use some Buck Bannaman-esque turns on the forehand and then turn on the haunches. Those both rock the horse back on his hind legs and give you and the horse practice at controlling the position of the front- and hind pairs of legs.
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More specifically, I’d also teach this horse to do a slow, walking turn on the haunches from his back, Same for a turn on the forehand. This is the similar to what you did on the ground. And you can to it in an ill-fitting saddle or none at all.
It seems to me that when your horse is leaning so hard on that outside shoulder that you are pulling his head 90 degrees to get him to turn, what you really need is the ability to “close” that outside leg (and rein) so as to capture that drifting outside shoulder (and he’s leaning on that outside leg and dragging himself with it/falling in that direction).
So if I were talking along and this horse started to lean out that way, I’d ask him for a few steps of gentle turn on the haunches. By “gentle,” I mean that his hind legs are merely making a smaller circle than his front legs. They aren’t necessarily on one sport, nor did he plant the inside leg and pivot on it as some of the western/cutting horse peopel want. What you are feeling for is this horse stepping over and feeling lighter in that outside hand. You will get most of the step over from your outside leg; the outside rein perhaps half-halts initially to tell the horse he’s going to stop walking forward (and leaning onto that outside front leg).
One great way to teach this is to ride a square. Walk straight on the sides and make your corners via a quarter turn on the haunches, then walk straight again.
If you teach this horse how to respond to your outside leg and hand and he starts to know that he should rock back on his hind end for the short time it takes to make that 90 degree turn, he’ll be able to do a bit of that when you apply the same aids, on the fly as when you are trotting. So if I got those square turns really good and reliable, I might pick up the trot and when I felt my horse lean on that outside leg, I’d apply that half-halt and then some outside leg to suggest a small step of turn on the haunches. At the trot, what that will mean is that he engages his hind end and stops onto his inside pair of legs from that outside front leg that he was leaning on.
All you need is a foot-fall or two of turn to the inside and you’ll have what you want. See how this is about the opposite of pulling his head 90 degrees to the inside in order to turn? But it will accomplish the same thing in terms of keeping this horse on the path you want.
Good luck to both of you.
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The Kimberwicke is not helping your cause for some biomechanical reasons. And coming from Western World, I see why that would be a bit you’d own.
The bottom line is that it asks the horse to flex at the poll. The problem is that the head and neck really need to be in the position that the horse needs in order to maintain his balance while he lifts his ribcage between this shoulder blades and carries his carcass in an uphill posture. And that takes lots of time and muscle to do. If, however, you use a bit or your hands to the the horse’s chin tucked before he is strong enough to lift the base of his neck and the front of his ribcage with it, he’ll find a very bad “work around”-- curling up his neck while leaving his back low. Do not go there-- it’s a bitch of a problem to fix!
So I’d choose one of two kinds of snaffle and apply pressure or release according to when he is using the top of his neck well and you feel any degree of lightness or uphillness in the front end.
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A stable, soft bit like a D-ring hollow mouth snaffle for one who already likes to curl behind the bit. You want him to be willing to “go up to” the contact and, from there, allow you enough contact so as to put his head and neck where you want in a relaxed way.
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For a horse how is dull and heavy in the mouth, I choose a thinner, less stable bit like a loose-ring, double jointed snaffle. If he doesn’t salivate, I’ll choose some kind of metal that encourages that. Here, the idea is to make the bit sharp enough that he’s incentivized to let go when you apply pressure and unstable so that when you release, the release he feels is instant. This, too, encourages the horse to find and embrace the pattern of the way your hands add pressure or soften in accordance with how he’s using his neck.
There’s a lot that goes into this. But what you need to appreciate is that because traditional dressage horses don’t go in a signal bit like any kind of a leverage bit until we add the curb bit to the snaffle in the double bridle (way, way up there in a horse’s training), we want them to have a much more direct relationship with contact than does Western World. We never want them to always drop off the pressure and tuck their nose behind the vertical in a way that is acceptable for Western colts still in a snaffle.
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Ok I am thoroughly confused. In this post you say you are a western rider. In one of your other posts you claim to show dressage, hunter/jumper, AND eventing. Which is it?
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All of the above, or none of the above?
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Let’s be honest, “all of the above” might as well be “none of the above” for the majority of people who fancy themselves to be equestrian polymaths. Not saying the real deal master of many disciplines isn’t out there, but you don’t usually find them posting about basic training holes on internet forums.
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Yes, is my reading of situation too.
The original question was so basic that the OPs claim to be a trainer or even work for a trainer in any substantial way didn’t make sense. Why not ask the trainer boss? Western horses bulge too.
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Oh dear. You need to understand that the fact that you are trying to train a horse to do what you want it to, does not make you “a trainer” (to anyone other than people who know nothing about training horses).
You have much to learn. That shouldn’t make you want to leave the horse world. There are plenty of resources. Read. Keep learning!
Consult with your veterinarian about how to bring this horse back to health and good condition.
Your basic horsemanship knowledge as it pertains to training seems lacking, and you are making that very clear by trying to rush a horse that was in very poor shape a few weeks ago into “training” and “showing” and worrying about bits. The horse has not had time to recover physically or mentally. It seems to me from your post(s) that you are in need of much more than suggestions for bits.
From your description of this horse’s condition two weeks ago, he needs hoof care, vet care, evaluation of any parasitic load and dental evaluation. He needs to gain weight before you should even consider trying to “train” him or “show” him.
I know it is exciting to have a new horse but he needs time to recover his strength before you really work him or show him. For his sake and yours, just slow down. :yes:
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I think people have been awfully kind, actually.
This horse needs more time. I probably wouldn’t be riding him yet, as I prefer to prepare their backs on the longe prior to riding.
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All of her posts are confusing and contradictory. Do you think that maybe she is having us on.
In the first post she states she has only had this horse for two weeks and hasn’t been riding him because she doesn’t have a saddle that fits.
Next post states she has ridden him lots and gone to all kinds of clinics.
She is a trainer and has no clue that a horse needs to rehab slowly after a long time off.
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Counter bend and turn with outside aids.
leg yields from rail to center.
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I dont think the post is a straight up hoax. Though it might be.
But I do read it as 13 year old girl, maybe advanced beginner lesson kid, has access to a busted up old schoolie with questionable training.
Rather than ask us honest questions about all the things she doesn’t know, she’s trying to create an online persona as trainer or something. But she can’t keep the façade going because she doesn’t know what she’s talking about. Makes me wonder what kind of story she spins to her little frenemies IRL 
OP if you would be honest about your situation we would try to offer useful advice. It’s clear enough that most of what you are saying can’t be true.
It’s fine if you are a young beginner rider borrowing an older horse, and your parents won’t buy you a saddle. We can work with that. But we can’t offer useful advice if we don’t know the truth.
And as you may have discovered we are all too old and worldly wise to enjoy participating in fantasy games about imaginary horses etc.
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Sigh… I’m starting to wonder if it’s even worth responding. Maybe it’s not her fault that she can’t take our advice, but the games are getting exhausting…
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You’re starting to wonder now? Clearly you didn’t lurk before signing up.
It’s funny that you say that because lurk is all I’ve done here for a long time! :lol:
I hoped that with all of the good input the OP had received from various members, she would take it to heart and approach this horse’s (and future horse’s) situation differently… But I know it’s not an uncommon occurrence for an individual to ask a question and not like the answer. I think we’ve all been there at one time or another. Maybe not on a public forum though… 
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I think she can take advice, I have faith - I’ve seen some great turnarounds on the boards through the years of young ladies who came on board all…exaggerating, and later became valuable members of the community. They went away, nursed their wounds, then came back and decided to learn and be honest instead of telling tall tales and insisting they knew more than the very seasoned pros.
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