GSP with osteosarcoma--update 8/27. He's gone :(

[fish]

My incredibly wonderful 12 year old GSP (German Shorthair Pointer) was diagnosed with bone cancer ("probable osteo/chondro sarcoma) on Tues., Feb. 21. Conventional treatment is amputation preceded by biopsy and followed by chemo. For a variety of reasons, starting with his age + dislike of going to any vets except his chiro, I’ve decided against that and am instead, searching for alternative therapies. So far, swimming him for exercise is working out well-- he LOVES that-- no lameness in the water at all, and he’s so proud of himself! Started Essiac tea 2 days ago, am upping omega 3’s and all modes of fresh protein in his diet, following the recommendations in The Complete Holistic Dog Book, given to me by my neighbor, who’s been running the supplements department at a Whole Foods for over 20 years.

So far, so good, but it’s only been 5 days since the diagnosis. Anyone else out there “been there, done that” who can give me additional recommendations, not to mention warnings, on what to expect?

I’m sure I don’t need to tell this forum that I love this dog beyond measure. That’s just the way it is.

[cute_lil_fancy_pants]

Osteosarcoma is exceptionally painful for dogs and they are so happy and relieved once they get that painful limb removed. Some of the happiest dogs I know are on 3 legs, even older and larger dogs! So if you want to give your dog the best quality of life, get that painful limb taken off ASAP. Of course first you have to get some chest radiographs to check for metastasis of the cancer to the lungs, if there is metastasis to the lungs it might be too late anyway. But please, consider amputation for your dogs sake!

[Laurierace]

My neighbor just went through this with her lab. She too opted against treatment which would have been amputation in addition to chemo. I helped her keep him comfortable with some different medications that I had on hand and showed her how to use a towel to help steady him. I am sorry to report that he lasted about 3 weeks after the diagnosis. It tends to go pretty quickly. Jingles that your experience will be a better one.

[clint]

Our 13 y.o. lab got that diagnosis. I wish I could give you a cheery outlook, but I can’t. Hers was located high up on her front leg, so amputation wasn’t an option, but even if it had been, with her age, and with her having some arthritis in her hind legs, we wouldn’t have done that to her. We managed the pain, which is very important, and she was comfortable for a few months. However, she rapidly deteriorated, and our wonderful equine vet came to our house and put her down so she didn’t have to travel. This same vet had a Rottie with osteosarcoma in his spine. He had surgery, and then radiation, but never recovered full function and was finally euthanized. Knowing what I know now, with a younger dog, who could have a normal life with an amputation, that seems to be the only path and even that is a temporary solution. Another vet friend had a young lab with it, amputated the front leg, but cancer came back within a year or so and he was put down.

All the best with your beloved dog. Hopefully you can manage this so he remains pain-free and happy.

[deltawave]

Osteosarcoma can grow to be VERY painful, VERY fast. I understand completely not wanting to subject a dog to chemo, but please don’t delude yourself that alternative therapies are going to help the dog. At all. Sometimes the kindest thing that can be done is amputation and pain control. Chemo is difficult and sometimes not in the dog’s best interest. But alternative cancer treatments DON’T WORK.

I would amputate if you think an older dog could cope on 3 legs. My lab had it up in her spine so that option was not viable. Vet gave me enough morphine to get her through the first week after diagnosis and after 2 nights I’d gone through all the morphine and couldn’t keep her comfortable so we gave her the kindest exit we could.

Really, really sincerely, if there were holistic and kind and un-dreadful treatments for cancer that worked, they would be utilized and harped from the rooftops. Good luck for you and jingles for your doggie.

[fish]

I was, of course, hoping to receive more encouraging news. The decision not to amputate is based on several factors, and supported by the vet my dog likes best-- a small animal DVM specializing in Chiropractics. Remember, this is a 12+ year old dog – he neither looks it nor acts it, but that’s what he is. GSP’s are like that. The tumor is on a front leg, he already has spondylosis, + a history of excruciating displacements in his neck (hence the chiropractor, who’s been enormously successful in managing these), + some laxity (think "dropped pastern) in the toes of one of his hind legs, in addition to a decided distaste for veterinary hospitals going back to treating problems stemming from his life before I got him (at 1+ year old, after the pound picked him up emaciated and full of worms from living on his own for no one knows how long.) This is why those who know and love him best do not believe he’s a good candidate for amputation. Especially because it would be a front limb that would be lost, the chiropractor fears that attempting to adjust his balance to accommodate amputation could easily throw his cervical vertebrae out again-- which was much more painful to him than the cancer has been thus far.

I am sorry to hear such discouraging reports on the alternative treatments, especially given the numerous exciting reports google, etc., turned up. My feeling is that the best/only thing I can do is try everything that does not cause my dog more pain, enjoy spoiling him rotten every day he has left, and have the vet put him into his last sleep, in our own bed, when the day comes when my doggie tells me he’s no longer enjoying this world.

Right now, I’m using Essiac tea, omega 3’s, turmeric, a high protein diet including fresh, optimally raised, fish, chicken, etc. + rimadyl and tramadol for pain and swimming in the beaver dam for exercise. He limps when he walks, but swims like a champ and still looks SO happy when he’s doing it-- and getting rubbed down for a nap by the fire afterward.

It ain’t over 'til it’s over.

[deltawave]

Google is not filtered for veracity, more’s the pity. :sadsmile:

Sounds like your plan is making the best of a bad situation. In a palliative-care setting whatever the patient wants is the best treatment.

[cute_lil_fancy_pants]

With regard to not amputating because the dog has other problems: right now the dog is not fully using its leg anyway, soon it will be non-weight bearing on that leg if he isn’t already, so he functionally isn’t using that leg, and it is causing him pain. Removing it will remove several pounds of painful limb, removing it will not compromise the other limbs because the dog wasn’t using it well anyway so the other limbs don’t have to carry much more weight then they were before the painful limb was removed. Just some food for thought.

[alto]

[QUOTE=fish;6163826]
I was, of course, hoping to receive more encouraging news. The decision not to amputate is based on several factors, and supported by the vet my dog likes best-- a small animal DVM specializing in Chiropractics. Remember, this is a 12+ year old dog – he neither looks it nor acts it, but that’s what he is. GSP’s are like that. The tumor is on a front leg, he already has spondylosis, + a history of excruciating displacements in his neck (hence the chiropractor, who’s been enormously successful in managing these), + some laxity (think "dropped pastern) in the toes of one of his hind legs, in addition to a decided distaste for veterinary hospitals going back to treating problems stemming from his life before I got him (at 1+ year old, after the pound picked him up emaciated and full of worms from living on his own for no one knows how long.) This is why those who know and love him best do not believe he’s a good candidate for amputation. Especially because it would be a front limb that would be lost, the chiropractor fears that attempting to adjust his balance to accommodate amputation could easily throw his cervical vertebrae out again-- which was much more painful to him than the cancer has been thus far.

I am sorry to hear such discouraging reports on the alternative treatments, especially given the numerous exciting reports google, etc., turned up. My feeling is that the best/only thing I can do is try everything that does not cause my dog more pain, enjoy spoiling him rotten every day he has left, and have the vet put him into his last sleep, in our own bed, when the day comes when my doggie tells me he’s no longer enjoying this world.

Right now, I’m using Essiac tea, omega 3’s, turmeric, a high protein diet including fresh, optimally raised, fish, chicken, etc. + rimadyl and tramadol for pain and swimming in the beaver dam for exercise. He limps when he walks, but swims like a champ and still looks SO happy when he’s doing it-- and getting rubbed down for a nap by the fire afterward.

It ain’t over 'til it’s over.[/QUOTE]

You & your care providers know your dog best - certainly far better than any Interwebz reader :yes:

Unlike DW I’m a pretty big fan of alternative treatments - sometimes they work very well (they just don’t get to be anything other than anecdotal so never any “scientific” breakthroughs).
Having said that, sadly osteosarcoma is not a disease that tends to have a good outcome no matter the treatment choices.
It’s one of those diseases that instead of focusing on the time that’s left, be glad that your dog has done so well up until the diagnosis (I suspect we are just very late with the diagnosis of osteosarcoma & the disease has been silently present for year(s)) & be as cheerful as your dog is

It sounds as if you are doing everything right for YOUR dog at this time (amputation & chemo are no guarantee that you will buy your dog more than weeks to months; yes there are some longer term survivors but there are some major heartbreakers too).

There is always the chance that your dog will be exception to the predicted outcome.

[fish]

[QUOTE=alto;6163956]
You & your care providers know your dog best - certainly far better than any Interwebz reader :yes:

Unlike DW I’m a pretty big fan of alternative treatments - sometimes they work very well (they just don’t get to be anything other than anecdotal so never any “scientific” breakthroughs).
Having said that, sadly osteosarcoma is not a disease that tends to have a good outcome no matter the treatment choices.
It’s one of those diseases that instead of focusing on the time that’s left, be glad that your dog has done so well up until the diagnosis (I suspect we are just very late with the diagnosis of osteosarcoma & the disease has been silently present for year(s)) & be as cheerful as your dog is

It sounds as if you are doing everything right for YOUR dog at this time (amputation & chemo are no guarantee that you will buy your dog more than weeks to months; yes there are some longer term survivors but there are some major heartbreakers too).

There is always the chance that your dog will be exception to the predicted outcome.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. I am trying very hard to listen to my dog, who is, IMO, being pretty clear about what he does and does not want.

[Burbank]

no advise, just wanted to say that I am sorry

[Ghazzu]

That’s a bad tumor to have.
Wish I could give you some promising alternative therapy, but there aren’t many.
I don’t think your decision to amputate is ill conceived, given the dog’s particulars.
The main thing to keep in mind, IMHO, is pain control, and when that becomes difficult, it’s time to let go.

[CdnRider]

I agree that pain meds can keep a dog with osteosarcoma comfortable for a long time, but its on a case by case basis. I knew a dog that went on for 6 months after the diagnosis, without any radical treatment. He stayed comfortable on NSAIDs and then Tramadol was added on in the final couple months

One thing to think about - as the tumor erodes the bone, the bone becomes weaker and can break. I’ve seen this happen several times. So what could have been a planned euthanasia, becomes an emergency where the dogs final moments are extremely painful. Please consider this.

[Houndhill]

I am so very sorry.

Some battles, you cannot win.

I have lost several Irish Wolfhounds over the years to bone cancer, and just wanted to say I am so supportive of your decision not to amputate, given your dog’s age, etc. Most people with IWs also do not choose this. So many of us have a multi-dog household where bumping is frequent, and IWs are so much larger than conventional dog breeds, and have in general many issues that lead many people to make the same decision you have made, for the hound’s sake.

I have in one case done palliative ( for pain) radiation, and felt it did help quite a bit.

Just remember, there is no “too soon” decision to euthanize with this, only too late, as a separation or bone fracture is possible. I would ask your vet to immediately give you drugs to handle this, should it happen, until they can arrive to euthanize in an emergency, if you are not comfortable doing so.

They can sometimes live a good quality of life for some amount of time with this…but you must be sensitive to their pain level, which dogs often are very good at disguising, and their quality of life, and the danger of fracture/separation which you do not want to happen.

Again, I am so very sorry. This is a horrible thing.

[SquishTheBunny]

Im so sorry to hear. Such an awful disease.

I have never known a dog to do poorly post amputation, actually, one dog I knew lived 3 years post amputation as an agility dog at the age of 16 (b. collie).

However, the decision is yours and if you feel your dog is going to live a better quality life with 4 legs than he probably is. Best of luck with your alterative treatments and I really do wish you all the best. Hugs.

[Judysmom]

Fish- so sorry for you. Osteosarcoma sucks. I lost my best dog to it.

What happened to her- she was a 9 yr old 115lbs rottie. She had bi lateral hip and elbow dysplasia, and she had been doing ok. I was seeing a pain management specialist vet(Dr Moses) at one of the big referral hospitals and she could get around well. Then, Memorial Day weekend she went dead lame and didn’t even want to try to walk. I took her to the ER, so she could be transfered to Dr Moses. I knew she had a bone tumor. Rotties are so prone to them and I watched her so very carefully because of it. Dr Moses xrayed her leg and didn’t see any lesions. I took her home with some new meds.

A few days later she went to my RDVM, and we pulled blood because she looked pale. She had a non regenerative anemia, meaning that her bone marrow wasn’t making red blood cells. I took her once a week for blood work to monitor the anemia.

3 weeks or so after the initial lameness, I took her back to Dr Moses and we went fishing for cancer with new leg rads and survey rads. Well she found a huge axial skeletal tumor, on her rib. Dr said she went lame on the leg because osteosarcoma changes the way they can deal with pain. I took my Umabean home with fenanyl patches and an appointment for palliative radiation. Dr Moses put Uma down a few days after diagnosis.

I loved my dog so very much and I would have done anything for her, to help her, and there wasn’t anything I could do for her. She died less than a month after her initial lameness.

[Casey09]

It is a terrible disease, and I can totally understand your decision regarding the amputation. Some dogs do well with 3 legs, but with an older, large breed, I can really see where you are coming from. Prayers for you and your dog.

[MoonWitch]

It sounds as if your decision is made and I won’t try to change that. We have to make tough decisions sometimes and we do so with our heart. What I can only give you is my experience.

Ours was different in that she was a beautiful 3yo GS with a lump on her foreleg. Biopsy proved the worst - osteosarcoma. Luckily, it had not gone to her lungs and there was a new drug that was showing promising results. We were lucky to get in on the groundfloor of a double blind study regarding T-104 cells with a vet right in our area. Zelda had the amputation of her left front leg. She recoved rather quickly and she truly taught me the meaning of grace. I watched as she learned to adjust to her new condition and she was amazing. She had such spirit and was an inspiration everywhere we took her.

After her treatment of the chemo and the other drug (5 mos) she had a very happy life…though brief. We had her for another two wonderfuly, healthy, happy years. She had Rimadyl on the bad days but otherwise - nothing.

She went down fast. It was a Sunday afternoon and she was “quiet” for her. By dinner time it was evident that there was something wrong. We took her to the ER vet and they told us her kidneys were shutting down. We let her go in my arms and I loved her to the very end.

No one can make this decision for you. And it’s a burden I don’t envy of you. All I can tell you is that if I had to do it all over again…I would in a heartbeat.

Have peace

[fish]

Just want to thank everyone for sharing their stories while being grateful myself for every happy day I am still having with my beloved GSP. He still bears weight on all 4 legs, sometimes standing, etc., solidly on all four, more often limping, and sometimes not weight bearing at all on the leg (left front) with the lump. His appetite is great, and very appreciative of the sudden improvement in my cooking Kind of interesting is that everyone has noticed that his eyes look clearer since beginning the Essiac tea. Swimming, car rides, ramps to reduce trauma as he goes up and down the places he wants to be all seem to help. He’s now on our bed (30" from the floor), resting comfortably and thinking (as far as I can tell) that ramps are pretty cool. I am very tired and thinking I will nap with him for an hour before the alarm goes off for more meds and tea.

I have to feel fortunate that I do not have an off-farm job that would make it impossible for me to do this for my dog.

[crosscreeksh]

My deepest sympathies go out to you…We lost our much beloved South African Boerboel to Osteochondrosarcoma on Dec. 27. He was 19 months old the day he died!! It was only nine weeks after the initial lameness began. MANY trips to the vet, X-rays, treatments, etc. never provided a diagnosis. Initial diagnosis was a massive infection (Our dog’s x-rays suggested that it was NOT “osteo”). We decided on amputation after all medical treatments failed and we lost the dog on the operating table from heart failure due to blood loss. By the time the vet had resected down to the femoral artery it was too late to turn back…she found the femoral artery engulfed/strangulated by tumor. The difinitive diagnosis never came until the pathology exam of the amputated leg was done. This is a very bad disease!! I personally would not subject an older dog to any radical treatments that would diminish the quality of his remaining time. If you do a Google search of this horrible disease you will find there is not much in the way of success stories available. I’m so sorry for you and your dog. Love him a lot!