I am about to become a guardian for a local breeder. Dog is 3 years old and after her last litter, she would be spayed and belong to me.
Any experience on the board with doing this?
Yes. Of course, it was a long time ago, but my experience was wonderful. As long as the breeder you’re working with is reputable and ethical to start with, it can be a great way to get a wonderful companion dog.
Sheilah
Yes, I have one, too. She came to me at 7, after two litters (one at 4, one at 6). She is from my other dog’s breeder, and it was just one of those things that worked out for everyone.
Do make sure to follow up and change the paperwork to reflect you as the owner. In my case, we live near each other, and it would have been difficult for the vet clinic to know how to handle the situation without updated ownership paperwork from AKC.
Could someone explain what the guardian relationship is/how it works?
Well, I’ve never heard the term “guardian”…but from the OP it sounds like my experience - where I became the new home to an adult dog (in my case, she was an ex-brood bitch but that wasn’t the reason she was rehomed.) But in some cases, a breeder wants to own a bitch until she can no longer be bred, and the looks to place her in a “forever” home where she can just be a pet.
As with anything - the details can be different (e.g. sometimes the breeder/owner might retain some co-ownership). And, in some cases it could be a “puppy mill” breeder that wants to move on to the next fertile female and looking to dump the old bitch wherever they can…versus some great breeders that want a different family situation for their beloved brood bitches. You definitely want to do your research. I surely would not want to encourage a bad breeder to dump their no longer profitable bitches…but for someone looking for an adult dog, this can be a great situation.
In this case it sounds like the breeder has most of their bitches living in guardian homes as pets, and brought back to them only for breeding / whelping. They think this way the dogs are happier and have a better life, as someone’s pet. After about 4 litters the dog is spayed and stays with her ‘guardian’ for good, and the breeders transfer ownership to the ‘guardian’ .
The contract they gave me sounds very fair and straight forward. For me, the advantage is to have an adult dog vs a pup, the possibility to take the dog back to the breeder when I have to be away, and it’s also a sort of ‘trial’ period in case the dog doesn’t work out for some reason, since it is an adult dog…for instance, this dog has had no contact with cats, and I have a cat…so we’ll see!
Thank you for the positive feedback everyone!
I got a show dog who was deemed not quite good enough at 16 months. Loved her to pieces. Part of the deal was we spayed her. Funny story- there was a co-owner who wasn’t the one showing our dog and wasn’t local so took the other owners word that she was pet quality. Several years later, remote co-owner was in my neighborhood and saw our dog. They were just back from a dog show with a van full of the same breed and said our dog would have won everything. But they were happy she had a great home.
How many bitches does this breeder have? 4 litters is more than I personally like to see from a bitch.
[QUOTE=sophie;7860855]
In this case it sounds like the breeder has most of their bitches living in guardian homes as pets, and brought back to them only for breeding / whelping. They think this way the dogs are happier and have a better life, as someone’s pet. After about 4 litters the dog is spayed and stays with her ‘guardian’ for good, and the breeders transfer ownership to the ‘guardian’ . [/QUOTE]
Eh…I’m not really a fan of this scenario. It’s not what I thought. This is often a way for a high volume breeder to defer the cost of owning multiple breeding animals, use them to breed for money, and get rid of them. Four litters by 3 years old isn’t a very good sign.
It can be done well, but I would be more wary than supportive. Usually when it’s done well, the “guardian” is a co-owner, not just someone that foots the bill for the breeding animals until they are no longer profitable.
What happened to this bitch’s first “guardian”?
I don’t think the bitch has already had four litters. My first two corgis were retired (and spayed) when they came to me. I wasn’t at a point where I could raise a puppy, so for me, it was wonderful.
Since this is a bitch who would still be in the breeder’s program, I would make sure everything is spelled out clearly in the contract.
They are done breeding by age three? and they have 4 litters? That seems kind of puppy-millish to me- in order to have 4 litters by age 3 the poor bitch has to be bred as soon as she comes into her first heat, and bred every single heat after that. When is she going to be shown/proven to be worth breeding? Never, since you can’t really prove a bitch that young is worth breeding.
Many really reputable breeders DO farm their bitches out- they have co-owners who keep them. But they don’t breed 4 litters, and they aren’t done by age 3, and the people who keep them actually own them from an early age onwards. They aren’t called guardians because they are owners.
A more normal co-ownership is the pup is sold on a co-ownership contract to someone, goes and lives with the person, and is shown in some way usually using a professional handler or trainer, depending on what tests are necessary for that breed. If the bitch meets all of the requirements for breeding, then she’ll be used for one or two litters and then spayed- well after age 3. So the bitch lives most of her life with her family. And she is mostly owned by the family.
This is far preferable to breeders who keep their dogs in kennels.
No, the guardian is really the breeder looking to get the dog off of their feed and management bill. I would not let someone take my dog, breed it and raise puppies from it. It does sound puppymillish and I had never heard of this until recently. She is not retiring at age 3, they are hoping for probably 4 more litters out of her. No way would I support this.
Eh, sounds like a pretty name and feel-good excuse for the breeder to breed a ton of litters without paying for the dogs or having any responsibility post-breeding age. My parents got their lab puppy from a place like that, the breeder bred 10-20 litters a year and claimed that the ‘top’ puppy in the litter would only be sold if you agreed to let the breeder use her for a few litters. She never bothered to contact the new owners, just relied on people contacting her when the dog was breeding age. We never bothered and spayed our lab at 3, never heard from the breeder.
[QUOTE=Calamber;7861204]
She is not retiring at age 3, they are hoping for probably 4 more litters out of her. No way would I support this.[/QUOTE]
Ah, gotcha - I thought the OP was getting a spayed bitch, like I did.
No, I’m not a fan. Co-ownership is one thing, and can work out great with the right relationship and contract. I know a lot of co-owned bitches, especially, and most often it is because the breeder doesn’t want the bitch bred without her permission - not “lending” the breeding bitch to someone else until they are done using it.
To the OP…it could work. The word “guardian” is a big red flag to me, because it’s such a weird puppy mill-ish term.
If the breeder is a good breeder, the bitch has been determined to be breeding quality (by being shown or competed to some title(s) and/or measure of performance); if the appropriate health testing is being done…and you are ok with the terms…then sure, ok. Get everything in a contract.
Breeding isn’t for the faint of heart, and not being the owner you will not have a legal say in the breeder’s choices - e.g. to breed another litter if there were problems whelping the previous one (meaning, your bitch may die), or if the breeder wants to breed back to back litters even if the bitch is still underweight from the first one…etc. Be sure you understand what you are getting into.
I assume you are not whelping/raising the puppies? Have you seen the breeder’s whelping area and are you ok with the quality of life your bitch will have during this part of her life?
[QUOTE=S1969;7860835]
Well, I’ve never heard the term “guardian”…but from the OP it sounds like my experience - where I became the new home to an adult dog (in my case, she was an ex-brood bitch but that wasn’t the reason she was rehomed.)[/QUOTE]
That is my situation with my dog. I was handed the intact dog and told that she has one more year to use him then he can be neutered. Once neutered, the papers are transferred to me. That last part hasn’t happened and he was neutered two years ago :mad:. In all other aspects, I am his owner.
I think this arrangement varies widely. Think about how much involvement you want from the breeder and then ask questions to determine if the breeder has the same opinion. Ask other breeders about this person. Write down who is responsible for what medically and monetarily.
I have never ever heard the phase “guardian owner.” Be careful this isn’t a miller.
I just read more posts on this thread. My spidey senses are now awake 
. OP, what breed and what state?
Maybe I wasn’t clear enough? The dog in question is 3 now and will have 2 more litters, one litter a year, so I would own her after that, when she is 5 I assume, and she will be spayed before they transfer the papers to me. One litter a year doesn’t sound too much to me?
So I would be her ‘guardian’ for 2 years. The contract clearly states things like vet bills, dog care, etc.
Bicoastal I will send you a PM.
[QUOTE=S1969;7861095]
Four litters by 3 years old isn’t a very good sign.
What happened to this bitch’s first “guardian”?[/QUOTE]
I don’t think she’s already had 4 litters! But These are questions I will certainly be asking. Thank you.
[QUOTE=sophie;7862870]
I don’t think she’s already had 4 litters! But These are questions I will certainly be asking. Thank you.[/QUOTE]
No, I was wrong - I thought you were getting her as a spayed female, after she produced “about 4 litters.” In re-reading your post I see that she is not done breeding, so I doubt she has had 4 litters so far.
A local breeder does something similar. They give out the females on “breeders terms”. You keep the female until age 1 or 1 1/2 years old. She is bred to male of their choice. You welp her and keep the puppies until weaning. The owner of the female gets 2nd choice of litter. You can either keep that puppy or the breeder will pay you for the puppy. A year later you do the same thing. Once the second litter is weaned then they will sign the papers over to you.
I was told that the breeder mixes multiple weaned litters of puppies in the same pen back at the kennel. Not sure how they keep track of which litter is which. The buyers only get to meet Dad since the bitch doesn’t live there. My understanding is this breeder ships puppies all over the world. They don’t seem to show and seem to primarily breed for size. I can normally tell when I see an adult dog if it came from this kennel as they are so big compared to breed standard. It is not uncommon to see female dobermans in the 90-100 pound range.
Although looking at their website they still do breeder terms but it appears to be one litter now and no puppy. The website does show that the studs are all champions but from countries like Serbia. Good luck confirming that. The Rotties don’t seem to have champions on them. If I remember correctly they have breed Filas and Shar-peis in the past.
Puppy mill to my mind.
