H/J vs Dressage

[Velvet]

How come H/J riders can be snobby sometimes, and yet still find a way to get along on the boards during discussions? Seems dressage people are just too opinionated to be tolerated. (I’m included in that group…no one needs to tell this pot it is black.)

I came out here on a lark and have decided to stay (along with the Event board because they are also really fun to be around). I think I need to abandon any and all dressage forums. They suck. Everyone takes everything apart and no one has any fun. I used to go out and poke a stick at the tigers in their cages (jerk the chain on some of the over-inflated dressage egos) but even that isn’t fun anymore…it’s just frustrating. Most of them don’t have a sense of humor, and everyone has an opinion that is different from anyone elses…even if it appears obvious that they should agree.

Okay, I’m done complaining. Maybe it’s just that I’m not a H/J rider that I don’t see it out here. Is that it? Am I blind? The only place I see any snipping is when discussing fashion…and that really shouldn’t set too many peoples’ hair on fire–unlike training arguments on the dressage board.

[ccoronios]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>What I like about Dressage Forums Is that they discuss training and problem solving, for both horse and rider. For all the traffic the H/J board <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think this has something to do with the fact that (as someone else pointed out) many dressage riders do a lot of work by themselves, under the tutelage, but not constant supervision, of a trainer. Also, it would do precious little good for a trainer to ride the horse all week and have ‘DQ’ arrive at a show in time for her test. (Of course, it’s MY opinion that this does precious little good for the h/j ‘rider’, too, but that’s a whole different story!) Since most h/j competitors board and ride with a trainer, and since that trainer’s word is expected to be taken as gospel (although nowhere NEAR as GOSPEL as that of a saddlebred trainer), h/jers rely on said trainer’s opinions and sometimes seek other opinions on our BB if they’re having problems or just out of curiousity. Someone who takes a lesson once a week, doing much of the work at home, alone, tends to ask questions and mull over - out loud - solutions or alternatives.
And here I am, with another lengthy response…

[Velvet]

I’m not sure I’ll become an H/J rider all the way, but hanging out here is a definite MUST! (I also enjoy the eventers.) I’m defecting from the board, at least. I wouldn’t actually mind going back to jumping and doing a bit of showing in that field again, and even a little eventing, but I really do love to teach dressage and travel around doing clinics and helping people. Funny thing, the most fun I had was when I did a clinic in Sydney, Australia. Those dressage riders are a blast. They work hard and have a very flexible mind…no great egos or opinions when getting trained. Usually, though, there are a few that come into a clinic with a chip on their shoulder and others who are very eager to learn. The ones with the chip on their shoulders make you wonder why they are even spending the money. Does that ever happen at H/J clinics?

[Velvet]

I saw that!!! One of the reasons I’m leaving is what you posted. Sick of the high-handedness of a few posters out there.

You are correct in asking questions and seeking advice. Ignore the reply you received. It was more insecurity than anything else. I mean, I taught when I was younger and of course I didn’t know everything, but I never claimed to. I would work out some of my students problems on my own horse by see where they could be having the problem, or I just hopped on their horse. It taught me a lot about how to be a better instructor, along with asking my coaches and riding for them. You need to work out problems and asking others where it might be and what they have done to fix it gives you an opportunity to explore new areas…and get a broader education. It’s just as important to know what things you will never do as it is to have tools to use all the time that never fail to work.

I still think the draw reins would help them find the feel. I think that contact is the issue for the riders–and the horses.

Let me know what happens and what you choose to try. It’s always fun watching the learning process for both the horse and rider. Nothing I like more than educating a rider so they can make the horse happier…which is what your situation sounds like to me (in the posting).

[Medievalist]

Come on now! If one has to dress in all black and white and wear a skirt around the show grounds, one is bound to be a little more uptite j/k… I think that the majority of the people on these BBs get along, always with a few exceptions. Perhaps it is just more noticable in the Dressage boards because less people frequent them.

Of course, there is always the time I got misquoted on the Dressage boards ( http://chronofhorse.infopop.net/2/OpenTopic?q=Y&a=tpc&s=691099205&f=502099205&m=523099505 ), but I’m sure that happens to everyone once in a while. Can’t we all just get along?!

[Velvet]

Probably. It seems a bit more accepting out here. Pretty much an “agree to disagree” mentality rather than a frying pan to the head of those who don’t follow your line of reasoning.

I do have one other thing to say, true there was a generalization made out here by many, but there also has to be a reason why so many of those personalities we were discussing (the major DQs who ride Training Level and really DO believe they have the talent for the FEI levels–and can do them in a week) are involved in dressage more than H/J. Come on, Worthy, you know there’s got to be a reason…and isn’t it worth asking for an outside opinion to see if you can find it?

[rescuemom]

I don’t understand the point, really, of all these generalizations about h/j and dressage riders. Does it make anything better? Do we all learn to get along? Will the thread succeed in silencing a certain dressage poster with more (and lengthier) opinions than God? If I say that I have found h/j folks to be a heluva lot snottier than dressage folks, who cares? If I felt that was universally true I wouldn’t be here, eh? I agree that most dressage boards, including CotH, suck, to a greater or lesser degree. Which leaves me with a choice of (a) abandoning the sucky boards; (b) hanging at the exceedingly few dressage boards where people are nice, helpful and still have a sense of humor; and/or © improving a board which could, based on a comparison of snotty-DQ versus helpful-dressage-rider posts, be a pleasant place to play. IMO, the only analysis needed is what part I play in making a board nasty or nice.

[DocHF]

Velvet, apparently you’re the next contestant on
“The Booger is Right”

http://pub9.ezboard.com/fthehorsecommunitygeneraldiscussion.showMessage?topicID=680.topic

[Janet]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I think the one difference is that jumping IS more dangerous than flatwork. Tough to argue with that statement. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually, it is easy to argue that one. According to statistics published in the Chronicle a couple of years ago (I think from the CDC in Atlanta) the most dangerous riding activity (greatest probability of a trip to the emergency room) is WALKING ON A LOOSE REIN. IIRC jumping was not even the second most dangerous activity.

(The only time I went to the emergency room for something horse related, I was nowhere near a fence.)

I do think that jumping is commonly PERCEIVED to be more dangerous than flatwork.

[Velvet]

Worthy,

But this was never an issue about dressage riders being better or worse in their riding…it was in their board etiquette (and boarding etiquette) that were the issue.

Heidi,

Maybe, maybe not. They sure are vocal enough in the dressage world to draw enough attention to find a nickname (DQ) that everyone uses with abandon. Doesn’t THAT say something? I don’t see it in the H/J or Event world…

[Velvet]

It appears the “boogers” are mis-representing my posts. Oh, well, what can you expect from people who like boogers? Hmmm…and as for being Velvet, I was probably Velvet long before there was a Booger Velvet. LOL

[rescuemom]

It’s the “no room for other opinions” in dressage

As compared to what other discipline? I have yet to find a single area of the horse world that doesn’t have a chunk of folks certain that theirs is the only opinion that counts. In fact, Opinions are what I consider a major characteristic of horse people of all kinds.

[Merry]

In my own humble, rather limited point of view opinion, the difference between dressage riders and hunter riders is that dressage riders, especially adult amateur women, A)seriously picture themselves riding FEI-level dressage in a top hat and tails when they’ve never ridden a training level test at a competition, and B)have a tendency to hear one top rider expound on a theory and then they live or die by that theory forever (“a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing…”).

Hunter amateur riders A)may set goals for themselves, but tend, through experiences, to accept more realistic goals and B)enjoy an “all you can eat buffet” attitude about various theories and practices on riding and jumping. They’re willing to incorporate different ideas, picking and choosing what might work for them.

… And I say this, acknowledging that some of my best friends are dressage riders .

[ccoronios]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Yep, your world is more competitive at all levels. Ours sucks because everyone thinks they can compete at Second Level and higher when they really are only ready for Training Level<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the difference revolves around the jumps. There are many h/j riders who are unready for the level of competition they choose to ride in, but far fewer than dressage - for one reason and one reason only. There are fewer who are willing to take their lives in their hands.
After all, ALL of dressage is basically walk/ trot/canter or some variation on one of those themes. (And if you haven’t the brains to see the variations, it becomes even easier.) So what’s to stop you (sans a strong, caring and opinionated trainer) from riding a 3rd level test when you can barely stay on at training? Whereas careening around at 3’6" is HUGELY more intimidating than doing it at 2’3" or 2’6".

[AmityBee]

THANK YOU !!!
At least one pro for the Dressage board, and you’re right there NOT that different than the H/J people and you’re right a lot of names show up on both boards (like mine)

Velvet is right about that one post on the draw reins question, it’s more than rude and it’s better to just ignore it then to blame ALL dressage riders for it.

You can get quite some good input on that board too.

[DebS]

Is that they discuss training and problem solving, for both horse and rider. For all the traffic the H/J board gets, there’s very little talk about actual RIDING.

The H/J riders that post on the Dressage board seem to go there for training tips, which is great. It might be a shock to the system when they find out how seriously SOME folks take it, but as someone mentioned, always consider the source. There’s usually VERY good info on the dressage boards, here and elsewhere.

I’ve asked some jumping questions in the H/J forum and got a limited response - I found I got better answers from dressage riders who all seem to have started in H/J. This isn’t meant to be a crack at the board - which I do enjoy. It’s just what I’ve experienced.

[Darva]

IMHO the person being discussed on this thread who posts over at the dressage board needs a lesson in manners. May I suggest a chain noseband for her?

[pwynnnorman]

When I read your first post, Velvet, I thought, IMG, that’s ME! You articulated exactly why I stopped frequenting dressage boards years ago.

But I think I know the real reason why this board is more attractive to more people: it’s variety. Correct me if I’m wrong, but you don’t get h-j or western folks on Dressage BBs EXPOUNDING their viewpoints from their sports perspective that often. Here, we with dressage backgrounds are able to approach issues with our backgrounds in plain view, subservient to none, so-to-speak. There are people here who do local showing as well as the A’s, lots of AQHA folks, WB folks–the works.

In fact, maybe its kinda like the difference between COTH and Dressage Today. I don’t think I could take much of someone who reads ONLY DT, but I get along just fine with COTH readers, for the most part.

But I still miss the days of chain nosebands, earplugs and–how could y’all forget this one?–POSTING TO THE CANTER!!!

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[Velvet]

Isn’t it still the dumb stuff you do before you begin to really enjoy your time on your horse?

[Merry]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>“Does anyone truly believe that any one discipline has a monopoly on arrogant cranks and arseholes?” <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course not!I believe our BB has already offered up plenty of nominations for H/J people in both categories.