H/J vs Dressage

[rileyt]

Velvet, you naughty naughty pot-stirrer! hee hee… gosh I wish I could get those stupid smiley faces to work… Just kidding, yeah, I saw the reply… to each her own.

For those of you who are sad about BB bullys, fear not! I have no intention of stopping my un-ethical postings! And I DID notice that Most of the replies were, at least, attempts to help. Which is GREAT! Well, after I send the horse off to Reiner Klimke for a year of PROPER re-training,… What? He’s dead? Horrors! Whatever will I do now? He’s probably the only one who knew THE ONE, CORRECT, DRESSAGE, WAY! I feel like Luke Skywalker talking to Yoda,…“Luke, you’re not ready to be a Jedi! Trust the Force, Luke, I know the force, but I’m not telling you” he he. Sorry, the sarcasm is getting a little thick. It’s my post-lunch sugar low. Thanks to all who were supportive and helpful. I’ll keep you posted.

[Velvet]

How come H/J riders can be snobby sometimes, and yet still find a way to get along on the boards during discussions? Seems dressage people are just too opinionated to be tolerated. (I’m included in that group…no one needs to tell this pot it is black.)

I came out here on a lark and have decided to stay (along with the Event board because they are also really fun to be around). I think I need to abandon any and all dressage forums. They suck. Everyone takes everything apart and no one has any fun. I used to go out and poke a stick at the tigers in their cages (jerk the chain on some of the over-inflated dressage egos) but even that isn’t fun anymore…it’s just frustrating. Most of them don’t have a sense of humor, and everyone has an opinion that is different from anyone elses…even if it appears obvious that they should agree.

Okay, I’m done complaining. Maybe it’s just that I’m not a H/J rider that I don’t see it out here. Is that it? Am I blind? The only place I see any snipping is when discussing fashion…and that really shouldn’t set too many peoples’ hair on fire–unlike training arguments on the dressage board.

[Velvet]

Now I’m going to throw something out because of the trainer/barn issue. Why is it that I do see more H/J barns run by the trainer and in the dressage world most trainers go to different barns or just work out of one without having a vested interest in the place? (Oh, oh, is that another huge generalization?)

It does seem that the H/J world has more money being thrown around as a general rule of thumb. Is that the reason? The dressage trainers always seem to be running from barn to barn. A few top ones have places, but even then a lot of them don’t own the barn, they have a sponsor or a good connection with someone who owns a barn and they work out some sort of mutually beneficial releationship. In the H/J world I tend to see barns owned by trainers…and run by their hired managers.

Tell me if I’m wrong or just confused.

(Oh, and VB, I had to laugh at those examples. They were DEAD on target! )

[Dementia_13]

Hmmm, I guess you weren’t here for the chain nosebands debate…

Or the “grooms” debate…

I’m just kidding guys! I enjoy this forum and I particularly enjoy reading the differing opinions on a variety of subjects. I also appreciate hearing the opinions from the junior riders, even if I don’t always agree.

[Velvet]

But, I remember flying over much higher jumps than I probably should have been doing when I was young and felt invincible. Doesn’t that happen in H/J?

[Goodyfourshoes]

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[Beezer]

Sometimes, it’s a very good thing that the computer gods are looking out for you and freeze your computer so that you have to reboot and it gives you time to take a deep breath…

Because before that happened, Worthy was about to get an eyeful from an overprotective little sister. Now, I hope, I can offer a more reasoned response.

Worthy, please reread Merry’s post. There were several disclaimers in there. A little unsolicited background: We breed WBs for the hunter market; we’ve done so for more than 20 years. Through the dint of (apparently unfortunate) experience, we no longer even show horses to dressage riders for the very GENERALIZATION that Merry made. We found that most of the AA dressage riders, at least out here, have visions of themselves far, far beyond their current abilities. To be sure, so do many of the AA hunter riders; the difference is, in our HUMBLE experience, they generally realize that their chances of ever riding a grand prix course are nil. That’s why they’re looking at a hunter prospect for X amount of money, not a made jumper for XXX amount of money. The dressage folks – again, GENERALIZING here – expect that same green hunter prospect to fulfill their dreams of being a grand prix horse for their sport.

A problem only for us? No. The two upper-level dressage riders near us (who’ve been riding dressage for years and also breed WBs) have had the same experience. In fact, it’s become a kind of “in” joke among our group. That’s OUR experience.

Worthy, we’re not “ganging up” on you. (Heck, Merry and I grew up riding with Debbie McDonald when she and Bob did the hunters out here; not dropping names, but merely to show that we are indeed not idiots about your discipline.) It’s a matter of perspectives. Everyone’s experiences are different. We’ve found the dressage riders out here to be very devoted to one trainer or another’s theories and practices; with the hunters, that’s not so true. A generality? You bet. But also our experiences. Yours are different. So be it. That’s what makes the horse world go round.

[Velvet]

Will the thread succeed in silencing a certain dressage poster with more (and lengthier) opinions than God?

Nope, but that is a hysterically funny line. Mind if I use it sometime?

[DocHF]

I don’t have near the posting experience that all youse guys have, being a mere novice with less than 100 posts!
I’m glad that a whole new crew is forming opinions about the dressage BB we all got kicked off last millenium.
But you’re all welcome to haunt hte Community of the Horse, which, you will probably all say sucks as bad as the rest of them, but hey, we’re at least willing to admit it, and laugh at ourselves. And we’re PROUD of being as snotty as possible. Why is this such a bad thing? seems to me we could all learn a little.

“Angels can fly because they take themselves very very lightly”

[jl1]

I have been equally offended by the broad assumptions and condescending tone of said poster in the dressage forum on occasion. However, to abandon that forum because of one poster is giving them a far greater measure of control then they deserve. Please remember RileyT, that nearly every other reply was in your defense. I too tend to lurk more in the H/J’s but I promise to spend more time posting in the dressage board if you and Velvet will come back!

[Canter]

Merry - LOLOLOLOLOL!!!

[Velvet]

Okay, rileyt, you’re in trouble now! I’m a HUGE SW fan! I don’t remember ever hearing anything stated exactly that way. Hmm…should I give you the entire dialog out here? Wait, that might be interpreted as some bizarre slam against dressage riders. What am I to do now???

Stir…stir… Or should that be “Boil, boil, toil and trouble. Cauldron burn and cauldron bubble.” ???

[Velvet]

Did I kill this string by altering the topic in the end? Should I start a new one? Or are we all tired of this discussion? Hmmm…time to start a new one. Maybe I should jump out and create on based on the rileyt admission to knowing SW and my obsession with it–or would that make me look more bizarre than I already am? Hmmm…don’t know if that’s possible. How about SW vs Horses for a title?

[Velvet]

You are SO right! They all think they know everything at the lower levels. But I do understand the “one way or the highway” issue. I started as an eventer (and played around at a couple local hunter shows) in my youth and the dressage I learned was SO wrong, that I had to spend a few years “unlearning” it and felt like I was starting over from scratch. Then, half way down that road to enlightenment I met an even more experienced trainer with international horses that had another way of riding that was even better, but I had to unlearn a few of the other habits I had now created. You kind of get tired of trying new things when you really are climbing the rungs and have schooled horses that show you how those things work.

Now, with that said, I will say that the flexible mind attitude I had when younger still helps more than it hinders. When I’m training, I listen to each horse and slightly modify my techniques for them, versus being a dictator on their back and forcing them into an uncomfortable mold.

Maybe it’s more of a goal setting issue. (One of the reasons I was arguing for qualifying scores in dressage for moving up a level, and for showing in Freestyles.) I think you were on the money when you said they are unrealistic most of the time. Maybe it’s because we don’t usually have dressage riders in this country that start as juniors. Maybe it’s the example of the upper level riders that we are following that are also part of the problem. Interesting…but also sad. Ah, well, I’ll breath the cleaner air out here and just visit the smog ridden world of dressage whenever I feel the need to bang my head against a brick wall because it feels so good when I stop.

[B.G.M_heidi]

Yes, Canter. The prevailing theory would have it that the hunters, for some, are intermediary steps towards the jumper ring. While there are many notable exceptions, and for the most part I’m expressing my PERSONAL OPINION, the hunter ring is not, for many, the ultimate ‘destination’. And even if one is a committed hunter rider, there is security in knowing that there is another competitive option in the jumpers.

On the issue of subjective judging, truth be told, I don’t want my 10 year-old to ever step foot into a hunter ring. There are many, including Hans and our trainer BTW, who disagree vehemently.

[Cactuskate]

I knew that was who you two had to have been talking about. Maybe as a frame of reference you should go back to that BB and do a search for that person’s posts. If you read more than one you will see a definite trend in their opinionated point of view.

Then the grain of salt theory will probably make more sense.

Ok back to this subject. IMHO, the reason dressage riders seem (or are) so snobby or snooty, is that we are most often found working on our own. Dressage does not seem to require the on going, daily, weekly support that H/J work does. A wise H/J rider always has ground support when working over fences. No matter what level their talent. They often school in groups.

Dressage requires a certain type of personality to have the discipline to work all alone. Does beyond anal mean anything here? Not meant to be offensive, I put myself right in there with the best of them.

I think many riders are at home, in their own arenas, or haul to lessons/clinics on occasion. Again it does not require the “equipment” and space of H/J. Good footing, proper dimensions, a weird alphabet placed around the arena and voila! you too can be a dressage rider. I guess what I am trying to say is that dressage riding is not always as “social” as H/J.

I seem to fall in the above mentioned category, as any of you might know, having seen my shameless attachment of photo of Bud on a couple of other posts.

And back to the matter of “that other BB”, do you think we could try to liven it up? Maybe if we persisted we could atleast help each other.

rileyt, did you find any solace in my post re: draw reins?

[This message was edited by Cactuskate on Jan. 10, 2001 at 02:57 PM.]

[Goodyfourshoes]

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[Velvet]

Do you really think she would feel it with her thick skin??

[Louise]

Oh well, I’ve calmed down now. Actually, I calmed down a while ago, just wasn’t near a computer. I do apologise Worthy if I upset you. It is very true though, in my limited experience, that the dressage people I know are not good business people at all. Glad to know that that is not universally the case.

I am one of those lower level riders, but I guess that the big difference is that I realize that I am never going to reach the upper levels, and frankly, don’t care. I like the horses, the riding and the striving to improve, and that’s quite enough.

I think Cactuskate expressed it best of all, at least it’s true in my case. I am a solitary, and sometimes at a loss for how to express what I feel, because I’m not used to doing so. Anyway, I wish you WOULD all come over to the dressage forum and help us make that a better place to hang out.

[DMK]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Actually, it is easy to argue that one. According to statistics published in the Chronicle a couple of years ago (I think from the CDC in Atlanta) the most dangerous riding activity (greatest probability of a trip to the emergency room) is WALKING ON A LOOSE REIN. IIRC jumping was
not even the second most dangerous activity. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Statistics are notorious for proving everyone’s point of view to be true It’s a funny thing about numbers… they need to be looked at in context…

For instance, the time you are most likely to get in an automobile accident is when you are close to home. This doesn’t mean that home is more dangerous than I-95 during rush hour. It just means that for most drivers, most time in a vehicle is NEAR home, hence they have a greater probability of being in an accident.

Having not seen the article in question, and not knowing how the stats were developed or presented, I can’t comment. But if you were to look at ALL riding injuries, I’d agree most would happen at a walk - that is probably how, in toto, most time is spent on horses (probability rears its ugly head, no pun intended). Unfortunately, a statistic presented that way does not comment on how dangerous a specific activity is in comparison to another one, which was more to my point.