Ah. They won’t register H/H horses, but they sure as heck still register N/H horses. So yes, AQHA registers positive foals. They may not be as severely affected, but they’re affected none the less. Until they stop registering ALL positive horses, the disease won’t go away.
[QUOTE=monstrpony;2959380]
This is quite true, and inspections alone won’t solve the problem. QH shows ARE essentially the breed inspections. The top breeders and judges are so much in bed together–there’s that money thing, again–that it would be very difficult to stop the cycle.
Same with the WP thing–the judges don’t want to ding their buddies who then won’t hire them to judge, and the top trainers sure don’t want to have to re-learn how to train horses to a different style.
Somehow, the consumers, if ineed that group can ever be identified, have to be educated and pursuaded to change their practices. When the whole thing is driven by money and back-scratching, it’s pretty hard to make change happen.
***I just hope the QH industry serves as a warning to any other discipline that sees the almighty dollar becoming the driving force behind its competition industry. It would be a shame for all of those deformed QHs to have suffered in vain.[/QUOTE]
Really it is all the same problems in the Paint industry. Half the judges are the same. They are judged to the same standards. Actually the APHA is worse…they have no rules regarding HYPP.
Vomiting now…they all looked lame at the walk…or was that a walk! C’Mon people.
This is soo disturbing for someone who grew up with a loves QHs. The barn that I started at was a top notch QH barn in Atlanta and they all went naturally…lovely to watch. I would sit and watch them all go and drool.
Miss Space Bar and Classy Adams were my favs!!
What will happen if any horse stumbles? Why does it make a difference if its a WP horse or a Rolex eventer?
These WP horses would certainly not be a “pleasure to ride”. What it is, is taking the horse out of the horse. Make it a zombie. If they don’t like to ride horses, ride a shopping cart. Can you imagine riding a WP horse on a trail, or across a field? I guess an advantage is that you could trail ride all day long, and never leave your 50 acre property, and never go back over the same trail.
Stupid question…do they train them to move that way or are they bred (i.e. conformational issues) to? They look like they are in ultra slow motion. Is that like the western version of the piaffe? The one stallion looked normal at liberty but seemed forced into this wierd gait under saddle.
I just can’t imagine any of mine willingly going that sloooowly. Even my young boy at liberty, who is about as lazy as they come in that regard, canters around the field slowly but it still looks like a normal canter, not like I’m dragging the pause button.
They are both bred and trained to do that. Go visit the farm that stands Zips Chocolate Chip down in Texas. Those babies are low and slow from the day they are born. Good trainers just put the spit shine on them.
How is it really that different from other disciplines - are dressage horses born doing piaffes or passages? No - they are trained to do it. But those BRED to do it are that much easier to train.
They ABSOLUTELY do piaffe and passage naturally, ALL horses do, just different quality. That IS the point of dressage, to RIDE the movements they use when free.
I don’t do dressage, so my apologies. However, that backs up my point even more. If horses are born doing piaffes and passages, doesn’t a GOOD trainer just put some spit shine on them for the show pen? How is that any different then WP horses being born slow and low and a GOOD trainer just polishing it for the pen?
ETA - a GOOD TRAINER…all disciplines have their bad trainers. That’s not the focus here…
I broke out a colt for a pregnant friend as a favor, he was bred for WP. I broke him English, taught his to go forward, steer, accept the bit, the basics. Later on, his owner asked if I would start him under western saddle, teach him to kneck rein. He was to be her pleasure/trail horse, no showing. I haven’t done much western riding, so it was a project. It was much easier for him to shift gears and go slow with me sitting on him, although he didn’t really lope, than to go forward, which felt like I was running him off his feet. He had a short, slow-legged stride and his conformation led him to have a low headset, naturally. I showed him for fun at a couple of open shows and got quite a few compliments. He wouldn’t have been competitive among the WP horses like Zips Chocolate Chips, but it was a more natural gait and carriage for him.
So, yes, I do believe conformation and breeding play a big part in what is natural for these horses. My WB mare would never make a WP horse, no matter how much training. Those little QH’s, as a good friend once told me, would rather you “sit back and cadillac.” All it takes is a few bad trainers to paint a negative picture of any discipline. And I’m sure we can all think of abusive means for all disciplines. I think everything we do with horses is an extreme of what is natural for them. Horses can run, but racing isn’t “natural” any more than jumping with a cracking topline and tight knees or jogging/loping with low headsets, or piaffing and on and on…Sometimes the line between molding what is a innate quality (having speed, jumping correct) and resorting to measures of making a horse do something that is not natural can get blurred, and what people see most is the abusive tactics (rightfully so).
I’ve known western trainers who can get their horses to jog/lope with low headsets without bloodying their mouths or tying heads to ceilings. I’ve also known a trainer who severed his horse’s tendon by poling when the horse would brush a 3’6" jump. It’s everywhere horses’ are involved-abuse and good training.
Personally, I don’t get the purpose of the Halter horse (to get back O/T.) However, I did know one couple who had a string of halter horses and their horses did do some riding events, more because they believed it was a good way to exercise them, and keep their minds fresh. They got turned out, but were always alone during show seasons-couldn’t risk a single blemish, and were blanketed according to weather-couldn’t get bleached out or risk bug bites. And during the off-season, or once qualifed, they did get to be “horses”-went for walks on trails, turned out with others. They were pretty competitive, always in the ribbons at big shows. Not saying I agree with breeding for Halter, but there are obviously halter folks out there who do care about their horses.
Just look at the video of the stallion previously posted. He is a very nice boy, with nice free gaits. WHY would any one WANT to see a horse like that moving like he is crippled, and in severe pain. As a stable manager, if I saw any horse lurching like that in the canter, I would be quickly going, “WHOA, WHOA!”, and running to grab a halter. Bring them in, and calling the vet to see if they are foundering, fractured coffin bone, severe abscess, etc. Same thing with the trot. It LOOKS exactly the same as if you were trying to ride a horse with severely bruised feet.
That stallion video does NOT show the same kind of movement free & u/s. TOTALLY different.
I don’t like that way of going, I will agree with you there, however, I didn’t think the horse looked crippled. What I saw was an over-done, overly controling of a canter stride. Maybe I’ve seen enough WP in my life that I recognize that 1/2 jog, 1/2 canter gait that is unfortunatlely popular, I don’t know.
[QUOTE=Equino;2960003]
I don’t like that way of going, I will agree with you there, however, I didn’t think the horse looked crippled. What I saw was an over-done, overly controling of a canter stride. Maybe I’ve seen enough WP in my life that I recognize that 1/2 jog, 1/2 canter gait that is unfortunatlely popular, I don’t know.[/QUOTE]
I was under the impression that the AQHA was making it a rule for WP to be a more ‘free moving’ horse when judged rather than the zombie peanut-rollers. It doesn’t look like that to me :no:
What will happen if any horse stumbles? Why does it make a difference if its a WP horse or a Rolex eventer?
To answer this people die from falling off while hacking horses…if your horse stumbles and you are thrown forward (and they DO NOT wear helmets that I have seen)
a. The horse could land on you
b. you could be thrown and land on anything (your head for instance)
Granted they aren’t going fast but that really doesn’t matter…it does not look SAFE to me at all. The horse’s natural balance is not to go with his head looking for grass!
I could have quoted so many of you, but I selected this because I was recently at a show at the Virginia Horse Center and there were some Halter Classes going on, so I thought I"d take a look…
Bad decision.
So lame - every single one in the classes I watched.
Perched on their feet.
Straight shoulders.
Horrible.
WHY is the lameness overlooked? It was SO OBVIOUS.
[QUOTE=europa;2960083]
What will happen if any horse stumbles? Why does it make a difference if its a WP horse or a Rolex eventer?
To answer this people die from falling off while hacking horses…if your horse stumbles and you are thrown forward (and they DO NOT wear helmets that I have seen)
a. The horse could land on you
b. you could be thrown and land on anything (your head for instance)
Granted they aren’t going fast but that really doesn’t matter…it does not look SAFE to me at all. The horse’s natural balance is not to go with his head looking for grass![/QUOTE]
This could happen no matter WHAT type of horse I’m riding. Helmet or no! The worst fall I’ve ever had was from a horse who was carrying his head in a “natural” position…which happened to be more like a USEF hunter.
[QUOTE=Sassenach;2960068]
I was under the impression that the AQHA was making it a rule for WP to be a more ‘free moving’ horse when judged rather than the zombie peanut-rollers. It doesn’t look like that to me :no:[/QUOTE]
There have been many rules changes put in place, but so far, it seems only the hunters have really shown changes. From the bits I’ve seen online, the western horses aren’t quite as below the poll headsets that was so popular, in WP, still too low, and still too slow for the most part. Until every judge adheres to the new rules, not all will change. It will happen eventually, but it’s coming about very slowly.
Look I am not going to argue with you as I can tell that you are probably a responsible owner but you CANNOT tell me that that is NATURAL.
When you are moving unnaturally and as most QHs are built a bit downhill to begin with you have a recipe for disaster. No wonder they have leg issues. SAD SAD
