Handling of weanlings and yearlings

[PiedmontSporthorses]

First… I’m curious to see how much handling and work you do with your weanlings and yearlings??? I typically like to handle them regularly - i.e. haltering, leading, picking feet, standing quietly, intro to tying, grooming, taking for walks around the property - simple, elementary stuff… as I also believe they should learn to be horses, just grow up, and not be over tasked at this age. I know some breeders turn them out with their age groups and handle them only for farrier/vet care until they are ready to start them. And then I know other breeders are cross tying by the time they are a year old and lunging. I try to stay in the middle somewhere.

Second… This method has worked for me with numerous young ones - modifying as needed for each individual of course. BUT… I have one filly (10 months) who is a love bug one minute and a sassy little brat the next. I imprinted her at birth and have handled her daily since. I’ve tried the “do more” approach with her and I’ve tried the ignore her “do less” approach. I’ve tried many different methods! Nothing is working for this tough cookie. Although there are many things she is doing very well with, she still is not great about leading, is “ok” about her feet, she will often pin her ears at me when I ask her to move away from me, and when really pushed she will even kick. I have never had a young one like this. She is not scared of anything, is super bold, and already tries to push around her babysitter aunty (who is an alpha mare herself), and her fellow weanlings/yearlings (who are doing great with their “manners”). Any thoughts on a difficult young one???

[alliekat]

We handle them from day one for what I would consider regular handling. They halter, they lead, they stand for a shower, I like to teach them the idea of ground tying, in the winter time when they are yearlings they clip, they vacuum (I mean will let me vacuum them LOL I wish I could each them to vacuum )
We also incorporate fun, silly things that help us gauge their ability to cope with new, strange and what could be scary things. I find that in this age group, their curiosity is my biggest asset. We introduce tarps, noodles and balls. How they react to these things help us when more formal lessons will be used with them and what is the best way to go about it.
Now our foals do live out pretty much 24-7 in like age groups. Other than coming in to eat, we do not do something with our foals everyday. I find that they teach each other more than I can each them.
How I gauge if we are over doing the interaction… I open up their gate and enter their field with a halter. They almost literally fight over who is getting to go out with me to see what we will do next. If it was not fun and interesting for them, I don’t believe I would get this reaction from them.
I also don’t lke to do the same thing over and over. No need to drill them. If our lesson is clipping and they are great for it, I don’ break out the clippers for months. I want every experience to end on a good note, one that makes them excited for their next time out with me.
Babies require a fine balance. IMO too much is far worse than too little depending on who is at the end of the lead rope.
Good luck with your babies. Working with them is the highlight of my day!

[MysticOakRanch]

I handle babies a LOT in their first few weeks - multiple, short sessions every day. Then, but the time they are about a month old, twice a day. At about 3 months old through their 3 year old year, about 3 times/week. They learn to lead, bathe, clip, pick up feet, load in the trailer before they are weanlings. Then once weanlings, they go on walks, continue to pick up feet, load in the trailer, etc. By the time they are yearlings, we start tying them (they start with a rope wrapped around hitching post with some give if needed, but they tend to get the hang of it pretty quickly). Then it is really just “maintenance” - 15 or 20 minutes every other day. The rest of the time, they hang out with the gang in the pasture.

I don’t cross tie babies, and I don’t believe in lunging until they are ready to start under saddle (3.5 years) - that is a lot of strain on a young, growing horse, imho.

[EventerAJ]

It sounds like your filly is an alpha mare in the making.

IME, it doesn’t matter how much you handle them, but rather the quality of the handling. Horses grow up just fine if they live out and come up once a month. They can also turn out fine if you prep them every day. What matters is how they are handled: so that they respect and trust people.

Ear pinning and threatening to kick you should NOT be tolerated. She’s trying to boss you around, and clearly does not respect you. It sounds like she wants to be friendly on her terms, which puts her in charge. While you can’t really “punish” a horse for pinning its ears, you can negatively reinforce it.

My (normally respectful) yearling colt started acting dominant at feeding time, pinning his ears and attempting to get in my space as I went to dump his feed bucket. Before he could ever think about escalating the behavior, I chased him out of his stall (opens into a run paddock) and made him stay out until I left. Now, every day whether he pins his ears or not, he has to go stand outside until I leave his grain and invite him in. It’s MY stall, MY food, not his. He’s not a mean colt whatsoever, he gets along well with people, but it’s important to set boundaries NOW before it’s truly necessary.

I would take any threat to kick very seriously. Carry a crop and use it; expect her to yield to your space. Also, try to limit interaction that could confuse her. For instance, I know my colt wants to be mouthy and could be pushy if I let him. So I don’t spend much time hugging his neck, kissing his nose, or cuddling. That’s just encouraging him to nip or misbehave; it’s too much like playing face-bites with his friends. Humans are NOT other horses. He needs to respect me and my space, not think that I’m always approachable. I can rub on his face anywhere, anytime, but only when it’s my idea.

Some baby horses are very submissive by nature, and will accept more “pet” handling without getting bossy. My colt is not one of those, and it sounds like your filly isn’t either. That doesn’t mean they’re difficult, just that they have a lot of self-confidence and will test the boundaries. Be firm, keep the boundaries clear, and they’ll grow into well-adjusted adults who are easy and respectful to handle.

[Ticker]

I had a filly that sounds much like yours OP. She was a love bug, but would leap ahead of me while leading and try, sometimes successfully, to kick me. I ended up having to use a chain over her nose as a yearling a few times to keep her from leaping forward. I used a water squirt gun in her face when she started to act up while leading, and a few free longing sessions in the indoor to build respect. I only had to resort to these tactics for a few weeks. She got the message pretty quickly. I may have carried the squirt bottle and shaked it at her as a warning to behave for a longer period of time.

Usually, I rarely have a problem with a filly and only use the above tactics on a naughty colt. Every once in while…I get a sassy baby filly

Added: I had a problem with a youngster that would not move away from me, even with longe whip in hand. Instead, he pinned his ears and charged. Sooo, I opened a large golf umbrella in his face, next time he charged. Never pinned his ears or charged again…just moved off as I was hoping for. This was done in a large indoor arena and he was at liberty and not restrained in any way. Never had to hit him or touch him to make my point…he is still my heart horse 12 years later.
The lesson learned here is that there are many simple solutions that can be used to correct a problem that also cause no harm. A closed umbrella that is ‘slightly’ flapped at a youngster also works to get them to move away in a non restrained environment.

The water trick is an adaptation I learn from stallion handlers who would hide a small mouth spray in their palms to keep the stallion from nipping at them while showing in hand.
The umbrella trick is an adaptation I learned from a professional young horse handler where he used it to animate the youngsters while training for in hand classes.

[secretariat]

While they’re babies, they’re not very trainable. They do need habituation, but you can teach them in 2 minutes at 3 years old what it takes weeks at 6 months. And then you have the schizophrenic personalities from day to day … They also have no sense of self preservation.

We leave ours alone, living out with their siblings 24/7. That said, we do halter/lead from day 1, usually accomplished to/from paddocks with their moms. No tying or leading alone, no generating a fight - they have no sense, high likelihood of one of you getting hurt. We do farrier work starting about 2 months, sometimes earlier if there’s a problem. As babies, everything is WITH their mom; older, it’s with/near/around their group. Don’t set yourself up for failure, horses are herd animals especially as babies.

We do the minimum necessary until they’re 3. No lunging, no exercises, no nothing unless it’s horse care related. They’re wormed, vax’d, regular hoof care. If they need a blanket they get one, whether they like it or not. We’re not teaching anything other than we don’t put up with any bullshit. For a very small minority such as your “alpha” filly, try a broom.

We’ve done 16 this way in the last four years, and their baby personalities have ranged from in your lap to feral. They’re backed at 3 then turned out until they’re 4. 100% have responded completely to their training when they were old enough, even (especially) the feral ones.

Not recommending this for anyone - it’s just what has worked for us.

[BC5098]

I am with Secretariat. I dont mess with the babies that much. I used to - but have discovered that when they are ready to start there is little difference, from the ones that were handled a lot and ones that had the minimum. I put a halter on them the day they are born. They get their feet trimmed everytime the farrier comes out - starting the first time he is there after they are born. They get handled for the vet. The basic lesson is that “You have to do whatever I ask, and I promise I wont ask you to do anything that will hurt you” Once you have established that - you can do anything you want.

The rest of the manners come from Mom - or if she is a marshmellow - after they are weaned they get turned out with either the lead mare - or the big gelding - and they teach them manners. A 10 mo old that pushes Auntie around needs a stronger personality for an Auntie. Granted those horses are not easy to find - one that takes no crap from a baby, but wont physically hurt them - but they are worth their weight in gold. You cant spend enought time with them to teach them herd manners - and their place in the pecking order. This is what is lacking in your baby.

Unless she is beating up on the other babies - I would leave it alone. Or if you can’t - take her out of her comfort zone - pasture her with a horse she can’t push around, somewhere else.

[stoicfish]

Second… This method has worked for me with numerous young ones - modifying as needed for each individual of course. BUT… I have one filly (10 months) who is a love bug one minute and a sassy little brat the next. I imprinted her at birth and have handled her daily since. I’ve tried the “do more” approach with her and I’ve tried the ignore her “do less” approach. I’ve tried many different methods! Nothing is working for this tough cookie. Although there are many things she is doing very well with, she still is not great about leading, is “ok” about her feet, she will often pin her ears at me when I ask her to move away from me, and when really pushed she will even kick. I have never had a young one like this. She is not scared of anything, is super bold, and already tries to push around her babysitter aunty (who is an alpha mare herself), and her fellow weanlings/yearlings (who are doing great with their “manners”). Any thoughts on a difficult young one???

I have this filly.
There are people with way more experience but here’s my take. Like others said, dangerous behaviour is unacceptable and should be rewarded with harsh repercussions. I give lots of affection for good behaviour and so they know a way to interact that gets rewarded positivly and I find they grow out of much bad behaviour. I think, like children, they go through developmental stages, physically and emotionally that are difficult. Try not to fix everything or dwell on it. Just react to anything that is dangerous, like kicking, biting or crowding very quickly and firmly. Reward proper behaviour with affection and let them figure it out.
Some of the more difficult foals end up being amazing horses, as they are the ones with strong personalities and they just need to figure things out.

[rosebudranch]

I handle mine on a daily basis… not always pulling them out but I have my hands on them, they all know how to stand still unhaltered for blanket changes, they all get tied or cross tied when im grooming them, I’ll occassionally put them in the round pen just to see them move a little but definitely not regular. When they are half way through their yearling year I like to free jump them over something low just for kicks once. I don’t start lunging until they are yearlings, but just enough so they know how, nothing more. They learn bridling early for the HB stuff, learn how to stand up and trot in hand, but not excessive. I am a firm believer in teaching horses to be good whether you are consistent or not (aka my schedule doesnt always allow to pull my horses out and stand them up every day but if I do great, but if I don’t my babies still know to behave even if I’ve only pet their noses for a week and decide to pull them out).

They get exposed to new environments, vacuums, clippers, farrier, vet etc as much as I can.

As for your filly, all of mine went through phases where I truly hated them for a month or two, I’ve learned letting them be is the best bet, it is their adolecent stage and letting them just play with their friends to grow through it is better than fighting to win the battle for a month.

[lauriep]

I completely disagree with secretariat. As the recipient of many either feral or spoiled yearlings/two year olds each year, I can assure you that either extreme makes my life VERY difficult.

A young horse should be raised from the beginning to do the job it is intended to do. Since my expertise is show horses, I believe they should learn all they can as youngsters. They learn very quickly and well, if you are a good trainer. Yet, they are still small enough that you can push back. They should spend some time in a stall daily, but also have plenty of turnout. Clippers, vacuums, hoses, grooming, leading, feet, etc., should factor into their daily life on a regular basis. Respect for your space should be the first lesson they learn. AND DONT FEED THEM TREATS!!! Reward them for good behavior by a “good girl,” a pat and a release of some sort from the behavior. That is all they need.

As I said, we get the whole spectrum in on a yearly basis. But our consistent, fair approach has yet to fail. And there has been no getting bitten or kicked in our barn, either. Common sense, good timing, and mutual respect form the basis. And swift discipline, followed by immediate forgiveness, conquers the bad behaviors.

[alliekat]

@lauriep;7501207

AND DONT FEED THEM TREATS!!! Reward them for good behavior by a “good girl,” a pat and a release of some sort from the behavior. That is all they need.

I agree 110%
I am not a treat feeder. I don’t like mouthy horses that are practically mauling you looking for treats. I find it rude and disrespectful. I find that expressing your happiness for a job well done by releasing the pressure and a good boy or good girl is more than enough for them.
My mom is a treat feeder and I joke that she looks like a chipmunk because both of her pockets are filled with treats. And you should see how they invade he space.
My motto is “I am the treat” LOL

[lauriep]

They must “love” me because I treat them kindly and fairly. Not because I am a human Pez dispenser.

[stoicfish]

AND DONT FEED THEM TREATS!!! Reward them for good behavior by a “good girl,” a pat and a release of some sort from the behavior. That is all they need.

Just about all trainers that deal with intelligent animals use food as a reward; dolphins, elephants, dogs, parrots.
I have met mouthy horses but I have never owned one and have always treated.
It is not a bribe but a means to quickly show that that right behaviour was achieved. Of course it doesn’t replace respect. And of course when riding, it cannot be used but there is more than a few riders at the UL’s that I see treating their horse after. It can become an issue if not used properly as any tool of training.

And most horses used for sport, the trainers would rather work with a “less handled” horse. I guess if the horse is meant to be a halter horse, then their primary job is to show at an early age. Klimke talks about leaving them alone till they are 4 or 5 as it allows their minds to mature for the real work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9y_8JEjEsY

and… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qy_mIEnnlF4

[lauriep]

Young horses are no different than young dogs, or young children. You don’t leave your child to his own devices until in their late teens or early 20s. Seeing Eye and therapy dogs-to-be begin their training as days old puppies, and many many studies have shown how very open to learning the very young are.

Every single one of our client’s horses are bound for a performance career. Showing in hand is nothing but something else for them to learn to do. We always have horses who aren’t conformation prospects, but they get treated exactly the same. I know of no trainer who believes less handling is a good thing. When to actually start them under saddle is open to debate, but I can’t think of any reason not to teach them how to do other aspects of their jobs as they wait for that step. Their minds can mature for work at the same time they are learning useful skills.

[lauriep]

And as far as treats, a competent trainer using them appropriately in a training situation, is a far cry from the massive over-treating that consumes this country as a whole. The average horse owner isn’t using treats for training.

[rosebudranch]

[QUOTE=lauriep;7501566]
And as far as treats, a competent trainer using them appropriately in a training situation, is a far cry from the massive over-treating that consumes this country as a whole. The average horse owner isn’t using treats for training.[/QUOTE]

I think the difference is teaching a horse to understand a treat as a REWARD… and not a TREAT. Reward good behavior, don’t just treat for the heck of it.

[RWR]

This a great thread. I have a 9 month old filly and it’s nice to hear what everyone else does with their babies. She leads, ties, stands for the farrier, loves to be groomed, loads, has been ponied and is working on trotting in hand. She is fearless and is happy to play with balls, tarps, and anything else I expose her to. I keep sessions short but handle her regularly.

[Zuri]

My breeding vet says that WB babies especially need to be handled from birth. My 2 yo filly will act still for her without a halter :). I credit my breeder/trainer and my daughter for her fab behavior. Her dam was a piece of work and not the best role model…

[stoicfish]

[QUOTE=Zuri;7502226]
My breeding vet says that WB babies especially need to be handled from birth. My 2 yo filly will act still for her without a halter :). I credit my breeder/trainer and my daughter for her fab behavior. Her dam was a piece of work and not the best role model…[/QUOTE]

But as usual people mean different things. Normal handling is great. I have a yearling who I can lead with her mane and pick up her feet and so on. But I think she needs to be out with a herd to learn how to be a horse before she grows up. I don’t want a mature horse that didn’t learn to be a horse. That is like an orphan foal. Moreover it has been my experience that a lot of issues that they have as young horses “magically” go away as they mature. They are WB’s and can be very slow to mature mentally. I have a couple that are part Trak and they are known for maturing slower, very intelligent but they need time to learn how to manage it. Apparently the G-line is also like that.
People have different ways of doing things and sometimes there is more than one path to the end point.

[tuckawayfarm]

Interesting to hear different perspectives, but I agree with stoicfish that there are many ways to end up with a four year old moving successfully into a show career.

Mine live in stalls with their dams until weaning and are handled daily, led in and out, groomed, etc. At weaning they move to a pasture with a large shed in age appropriate groups where they stay until they are 3-31/2. For those years, they are pretty much feral. They are brought up to the barn for the vet and farrier.

They always seem to retain those early lessons from when they were stalled. They are easily caught, haltered and led to the barn where they stand for the vet and farrier. Blanket changes can be done by one person in the field. They love to play with balls, tarps or anything else available.

At three they get 30 days of groundwork, ponying, and then they are backed and trail ridden. After those 30 days they are ready to go to the trainer who will teach them their new job.

This schedule works well for us because we prefer to sell at the baby green stage and it is a very cost effective way of getting them there. If you are looking to do hunter breeding, a program like the ones offered by lauriep or alliekat would be very appealing, but it adds significantly to the total investment in that baby green hunter.