Hanoverian lines-jumper vs dressage?

[spirithorse22]

Just curious (I’ve always owned thoroughbreds) what the difference(s) between a jumper type Hanoverian vs. a dressage type is(are) and how differently these horses are brought up? I’m just curious to know if it would be more difficult to take the former, an imported jumper Hano, and do strictly dressage with him?

Good training is good training, a nice moving horse is a nice moving horse, but I’m just curious if there ARE differences in the way they’re brought up/trained over there for different disciplines.

Thanks in advance!

[Kareen]

The difference is not so much in the upbringing but more in the training. Since jumpers normally sell either as foals or as 4+yo’s some are started later then their dressage counterparts. Dressage and jumping aren’t as separated here as they are in the States though and most mares will also undergo a performance test where they have to at least freejump. On the other hand many amateurs show both dressage and jumping with the same horse and even the specialized jumper barns normally do extensive flatwork following dressage principles. As many jumper riders are more laidback and casual with their horses jumpers normally have better manners and tend to be less spooky than horses shown only dressage here.
I don’t think you should have any problem converting your jumper to a dressage horse. Good and bad training exists in both disciplines and I assume your former jumper is of high quality (otherwise why would someone bother to import him all the way) and can be expected to have a decent training past.
Have fun!

[cheekyhorse]

[QUOTE=Kareen;3640577]
As many jumper riders are more laidback and casual with their horses jumpers normally have better manners and tend to be less spooky than horses shown only dressage here.
QUOTE]

LOL! Same as around here!

there are a GREAT many jumper bred/competing Hano horses that I certainley wouldn’t kick out of my barn! A great many of the top jumpers would make great dressage horses IMO. An athlete is an athlete.

[Perfect_Pony]

I have a G line Hanoverian mare, all jumper breeding as far back as it goes.

She’s a great mover with a great temperment, however she has a huge step and is much more flat in her way of going. I struggle with getting her more uphill, and our biggest struggle is fitting 20 meter circles into the dressage court. This is all the more amazing as she’s only a hair over 15.1 hands tall! She is 6 years old and still struggling to canter a 20 meter circle.

I would buy an individual more than buy breeding, but there are some characteristics of the jumper lines that will make straight dressage more difficult.

[spirithorse22]

Interesting, thanks for the posts everyone!

I have always owned OTTBs except for my very first horse, an Anglo Trak. (bad idea!! :eek:) lol So, Really, mostly thoroughbreds. I love researching Tb lines, but have never looked into the warmblood breed lines. Not that I wasn’t interested, I just had plenty to keep me occupied in the Thoroughbred world.

Perfect Pony, what other traits do you mean?

I was talking to someone the other day about getting an imported jumper and they all but ran the other direction screaming, “Mistake! He’ll be crazy! Mistake!”. Yes, jumpers can be a little hotter than some horses, and it depends on their training, but I hadn’t ever thought that just b/c they were imported for big jumper classes they would have a screw loose.

Or am I a little naive? This particular horse seems to have a great personality. I agree, buy the individual hore, not the line/breed/etc. but just trying to learn a little more about the warmblood world, so interested in anyone’s experience there…

[Perfect_Pony]

@spirithorse22;3641095

Perfect Pony, what other traits do you mean?

Like I mentioned regarding my mare, she has a very long stride and isn’t as uphill as they want for regular dressage, especially her canter that is much longer and ground covering, rather than shorter and up hill. It’s hard for her to sustain a bouncy up hill canter and do 20 meter circles and smaller circles in the frame that they want for straight dressage.

Dressage trainers and judges love her, but she is hard to ride in the dressage court, and she may be limited to 2nd level and below, time will tell.

But as far as temperment goes, I know of no 6 year horse with a better one!

Something that is very, very easy for her however is lateral work. She feels like a rubber band under me. It’s just hard for her to get engaged behind the way they want for dressage, and sustain it for long.

Here is her particular pedigree.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/georgiana+hh

[FancyFree]

Interesting topic. I’ve always wondered about my own Hanoverian. She comes from a long line of jumpers. Her grandmother was one of the horses on the German Olympic jumping team. Grandfather was a Grand Prix jumper. I’ve had a little apprehension as to how she will do at dressage. But so far, so good.

[Kareen]

I agree with those who say a good horse is a good horse. However around here the perception is that a good moving jumper can turn out a GP dressage horse more easily than a well jumping dressage horse.
I am very oldfashioned in my breeding approach. I still need my dressage-bred ones to be able to at least jump a 3’11’’ course with ease and I also think a good jumper should at least technically cover an M-level dressage test body- and brain-wise without looking embarrassing.
Nowadays there are a whole lot of breeders following a strictly specialist approach. I think this is somehow backwards because after a few generation of breeding ‘straight’ you seem to lose a lot of things (e.g. elasticity and trainability with ‘purebred’ jumper lines vs. power, engine and stamina with ‘purebred’ dressage lines.
I also find dressage lines that throw a great jumper every once in a while (think Donnerhall, Florestan or Warkant) to be generally more sportive than those who have a rep. for ‘killing the jump’. What lines does the boy you are looking at have?

[spirithorse22]

Well, I don’t know! I got him free from the Give-A-Way board here at COTH. He’s arriving tomorrow, so I honestly can only go from what his owner has said about him.

I’ve never bought a horse without riding it a few times, doing a pre-purchase, etc. but the timing worked, everything kind of fell in place, and I bit the bullet and agreed to take him. So, we shall see what he’s like when he arrives tomorrow. :uhoh:

I’ll ask the owner if she knows his lines…his name is Graziano, don’t know if that will help at all b/c I don’t know if its his full name or not…??

ETA-I sent a PM to his owner and asked if she knew his dam/sire, if she had papers, etc.

[Perfect_Pony]

@spirithorse22;3641224

I’ll ask the owner if she knows his lines…his name is Graziano, don’t know if that will help at all b/c I don’t know if its his full name or not…??

Well, since horses are named after their sires line, he’s G-line at least on top.

fwiw, we have another G line Hanoverian at my barn with another temprment to die for, as well as “gunnar” on here owns a lovely G line Hanoverian gelding that although a little spooky at times, is a very nice horse with a good temperment as well.

Personally I think the G line does tend to have a good temperment.

[VarsityHero4]

I don’t see much of a difference, except that for some reason a lot of the non-jumper bred lines tend to not have that natural jumping ability that the jumper bred ones do. Of course there are exceptions. I have a G-line filly, she’s only 5 months so hopefully she CAN jump! Mostly I wanted to post because Graziano is my last name and I never thought I’d hear of a horse named that… do you know how he got his name? lol too funny!

ETA: I just saw there are 8 horses named Graziano recorded with USEF, weird!

[spirithorse22]

[QUOTE=VarsityHero4;3641432]
I don’t see much of a difference, except that for some reason a lot of the non-jumper bred lines tend to not have that natural jumping ability that the jumper bred ones do. Of course there are exceptions. I have a G-line filly, she’s only 5 months so hopefully she CAN jump! Mostly I wanted to post because Graziano is my last name and I never thought I’d hear of a horse named that… do you know how he got his name? lol too funny!

ETA: I just saw there are 8 horses named Graziano recorded with USEF, weird![/QUOTE]

Well, my mom is all excited b/c our last name is Perugino. She keeps asking, “Has Graziano Perugino arrived yet?” :lol: I keep telling her he’s German bred, but she’s decided that he’s as Italian as we are…:winkgrin:

ETA-I heard back from his owner and she sent his passport with him. He should arrive tomorrow and I’ll know more about his ‘lines’.

[EqTrainer]

Our G-line (Graf Genius) would make a lovely dressage horse. He is uphill, incredible hind leg, great brain. 3 exceptional gaits, particularly his canter.

BUT - he has the notorious G-Line jump. It is phenomenal. The first time he jumped U/S he came out of the corner at a canter and knew just how to get to the fence. It was nothing short of breathtaking - that not only is the style there, but the inherent know-how. Combined with the fact that at 7 years old he is 15.3 1/4 he will be sold as a small junior hunter $$$$$$$$$$ versus as a dressage horse, only $$$$.

[dalpal]

Another Graf Genius owner here. Put a row of fences in front of her and she just knows what to do…have never seen her refuse a jump…loves it.

I have the same problems as Perfect Pony…hence why this mare needs to be some lady’s jam up hunter. I adore her, dead quiet, level headed…a barn favorite…but she is hunter all the way.

I had one of the trainers jumping her last summer…when the head trainer (who really likes my mare) came out and said…“Do you know what you have here money wise in hunters?” :lol: She has just a natural stride to the jump…she gets that hunter rhythm…it’s beautiful to watch.

My next one (if it’s hanoverian) will be the R or D line.

[Equi88]

I have actually seen several imported jumpers turning out to be lovely dressage horses with really great gaits.
One young horse was sold because her stride was too big and another one turned “sour” by an owner that didn’t know how to ride :rolleyes:

Good Luck with your new horse. He is probably out of the old Gotthard line…?
Great horses- dressage and jumping- come from that line!!

[Alagirl]

Kareen, correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I can tell the dressage/jumper distinction is a rather new phenomenon.

It’s like race breeding, all sprint without stamina gets you nowhere, as well as all stamina without speed will result in the equivalent of a steam boat…slow to start and long to stop.

Jumpers need a substantual hind end to do the job well, not a bad thing for a dressage horse.

And as I have been told this spring, Satchmo, Isabel Werth’s horse has also some top jumper lines in his pedigree. Came to mind because my late sister had a close relative to him in the barn, also trained for dressage.

As Kareen pointed out the training for the young horse is basic dressage, untill they are four they can’t compete over jumps, and only in riding horse and material classes. (but the riders are trained similar, first comes the compulsary before they let you jump)

[PiaffeDreams]

I have a gelding by Escudo I. His dam is by the TB stallion Augustinus xx and out of a mare by Steppenwolf. So there is a little mix of dressage/jump, but the top is definitely jumper bred. He has a bit straighter hind leg than is ideal, but he is very “dressagey” - and a spooky dork. When I bought him I was told he had won a large 3yr old material class in Germany before importation. Apparently, he was on a dressage track in his training from the start?

Since my backrgound was h/j I naturally did some jumping with him when he was a real greenie and I would have killed to have him as an eq. horse in my junior years! He’s a blast to jump and could have easily been a 4’+ horse.

I love his versatility and that he has the feel of being an overall athlete. Generally, he’s a lazy horse, but he’s also a hot-head and is a bit neurotic. Sweet horse, but a little quirky! Interestingly, he has 3 full brothers, two of whom are stallions standing in Germany… although I don’t know their names. I did see a free-jumping video from one of them on the Horse-Gate site at his inspection. He was definitely not as “dressage” type as my guy and a nice jumping horse.

Here’s video of my guy ,Ernst August, in August - I wish I had some more recent video uploaded because a lot has just clicked in for us the past two months.

[Bronte]

a bunch of possible Graziano’s here!

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/

Do let us know!

[spirithorse22]

[QUOTE=Bronte;3642959]
a bunch of possible Graziano’s here!

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/

Do let us know![/QUOTE]

Well, he’s a bay 17h gelding, so maybe this guy? http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/graziano5

The owner said he was 12, but maybe he’ll be 12 this spring? Dunno. He’s arriving today around 2PM our time, so 4 or so Eastern. I’ll definitely bring his passport in the house and double check the lines…

I’m nervous!

[ika]

My filly is half Hano from the G line (Goldschlager is her grandsire) and I agree with what others have said about the gaits being a bit flat. She’s a beautiful mover and will hopefully be my jumper, but she could probably be a great hunter. I couldn’t see her progressing too high in the dressage levels due to flatness.

That being said she has a temperament to die for. I’ve had her for almost a year and backed her myself in May when she was almost 4. She has been a complete doll and has never batted an eye at anything we’ve done. She is curious and really affectionate and spends a lot of time clamouring for people’s attention in the barn…which they give her because she is adorable!