Why are the horses so cheap in Europe? My sister just picked up a horse at the Hanoverian Verden auction for a steal. Even including shipping cost to get to the US! I looked on dreamhorse and Equine.com and there is hardly anything out there when I screened 20K or less.
Yet there were many that sold as 6yo for 6K to 8k Euro. My sister said the shipping will be 7K. These appear to be nice horses! And yet there really isn’t anything that I have found here. That’s really like 15k for a horse jumping fairly big jumps and has training on it.
I have been looking at the market because a dear friend of mine, had her horse get seriously hurt and may never be sound again. I am devastated for her and feel the pain of not having a horse to ride. Wondering what the options would be for her if she decided to buy another horse.
Thanks!
Lots of Euro horse failures are “dumped” into the American market. Americans seemed overly dazzled by the “import” factor and clamor to buy them almost blindly. Beware and know with whom you are dealing. Just like in the States, there are many upstanding European dealers, and many not so upstanding ones, too. Horse people are the original used car salesmen - after all!
well is the Verden auction reputable? My sister said her trainer has imported several and they are all winners. That is why she took the chance. I at this time am too afraid to take the gamble. I will watch to see if her gamble pays off!
BUT these horses looked very nice. I like the horse my sister bought. He looks athletic. Maybe just green, because the auction rider seemed to be riding the pants off of him. but the Quality is there and so is the bloodlines. So what risks are you facing?
a local view
Many horses that come from the auctions need a break. It is high stress and loads to take in. You can get nice horses there but a next top level horse will probably not be found there, at least not to often. I think one reason for the nices prices is that at least in Germany we have a lot nice horses. Many people here want to buy under 10k for the low stuff.
And at the auction the sellers are often the breeders not a trainer. They have to sell the horse to at a minimum have some stable space for the next one. You can get the breaking and some training under saddle for 500-600 euros per months. I believe that is more in the US.
The auctions of the associations are a market Place for the members, the breeders. Years ago we had diffrent people and more people breeding. Back in the day more people broke and started their own horses. It is bevormundend a more pro job nowadays. So the prices for the horses will go up.
The Boss of the State stud in Celle one Said he believes in 2016 the demand for horses will be higher than the amount of offered horses. This will be a result of the declining breedings.
Basically horses here are cheaper because people don’t have to pay as much to make a horse sellable
Just from watching several of my friends’ experiences - and these are very experienced people (go to WEF every year, compete in Harrisburg, etc). One horse had vision issues that increased as he aged, one was a psychological basket case that finally had to be donated and destroyed his owner’s confidence in the process, and one with that developed a horrible quarter crack and tore a ligament deep in his hip due to conformation issues. I am certain there are also great stories out there, but I wouldn’t do it, especially if you don’t have the $$ to throw away.
Further, there was another thread not long ago about how European sellers automatically jack up their prices when they know they have American buyers. Try to search and find it - you may find it interesting.
[QUOTE=LowerSaxony_Jumper;8146221]
a local view
Many horses that come from the auctions need a break. It is high stress and loads to take in. [/QUOTE]
what do you mean by this? the horses need a break so they go to the auction?
I think she means many of the horses are not psychologically (or physically) ready for the demands of the auction. They are prepared for the auction without consideration for the long-term well being of the horse. So, the horse that hasn’t done much at home much less gone to any shows is asked to jump around a 3’6 course. The professional rider manages it for that particular event, but the horse and next owner can and frequently do suffer the repercussions of the horse being overfaced.
Yes I am very picky about conformation and good feet. I don’t know how you could tell from the videos posted whether they have good feet and conformation. I also almost bought horses off a video in Manitoba. I was soooo sure I was going to buy one of them. But I chickened out! I bought a plane ticked to Minneapolis and drove 8 hours plus to see the horses. I didn’t buy any of them even though I went to 3 farms. I didn’t like riding them. I was surprised my novice rider sister was so bold in buying a horse sight unseen. I hope it works out for her!
I have a friend (professional) who bought a horse sight unseen from Canada. The horse was unstarted which eliminates a lot of the baggage issues. She had it vetted up and down, spoke to the vet and got a lot of pictures taken and decided the gamble was worth it. She has been thrilled so far. If I could afford a second horse, I would be more willing to take that sort of risk. With one horse, I need to ride it and love it.
There are also many locally bought horses that develop problems also (vision problems, quarter cracks etc are certainly found here too!). I gave some thought to buying overseas but decided against it and bought from a well respected Canadian breeder. But I could be unlucky and have any number of problems crop up, even with a clean vetting and riding the horse beforehand.
It would be interesting to see how many people have had some sort of problem with their North American horse vs those that have purchased overseas. It might be that a given percentage of every pool has issues no matter where it was bought.
I would be more inclined to buy overseas with a good agent who has connections. I do think you would get taken advantage of trying to do it without that.
I mean they need a break after the auction. It is two or three weeks of high stress. Even if the horses are well prepared at home but they leave their normal barn, go to a strange barn with lots of new stuff, they don’t have a lot of time to get used to all the new things. They have to go in the presentations and are tried by people. Some of the people trying are good riders, some not. Maybe a horse had a soft rider at home, now the auction riders have to ride them harder because of the time and the people coming to try. They do not get the one on one time many horses are used from their home stables.
All this is asked of 3-5 year old horses. It is a lot! I heard many success stories but it took sometime for some horses.
Wait these very experience people didn’t notice a conformation flaw that resulted in a torn ligament in his hip?
Those things all happen when you buy in America too.
Because they bought from a “reputable” importer. The hip thing happened after several years. True, those things happen in America. As I stated.
[QUOTE=TSWJB;8146140]
BUT these horses looked very nice. I like the horse my sister bought. He looks athletic. Maybe just green, because the auction rider seemed to be riding the pants off of him. but the Quality is there and so is the bloodlines. So what risks are you facing?[/QUOTE]
The Verden auctions offer different levels of quality throughout the year. The auction staff preselects horses and grades them into “elite” auctions and “other” auctions. The most recent May Auction in Verden is one of the “other” auctions. Many times otherwise nice horses in these “other” auctions do not have “Class I” x-rays by European standards (which are good, but might still not be “perfect” by American standards). The auction provides access to the x-rays in advance so people know what they are buying. But that might explain some of the lower prices that you see at this particular auction.
[QUOTE=Bent The most recent May Auction in Verden is one of the “other” auctions. Many times otherwise nice horses in these “other” auctions do not have “Class I” x-rays by European standards (which are good, but might still not be “perfect” by American standards). The auction provides access to the x-rays in advance so people know what they are buying…[/QUOTE]
what do you mean by class 1 x-rays? Do you mean these 6k euro horses have things like OCD lesions?
well, I just want to go back to the initial question: why is it so cheap?
all what “Bent Hickory” wrote ist right, however in my opinion you dont generally have “elite” horses at the elite auction nor you have lower quality horses at the “other” auction. in both auctions you can find good and not so good horses. of course it is more likely to find a steal in these “other” auctions than in the elite…
why it is so cheap? cheap compared to what? to prices in the states! well…that is simple a 100% economic question. first you buy here in the “producing country” that is way the price is cheaper than anywhere else. although it is an auction where you normaly pay mor than “at the breeders barn” you still get a good price. than of course the person who is importing the horse takes all the risks and concessions. all other costs, maybe the cost of the journey to see the horse, the captial cost of the investment etc. and simply the importer is not doing it for nothing > he needs to make money with it. and dont undererstimate the risk taking! the risk could be that he bought and imported a horse and the horse is a failure - what could happen easily - just a broken leg when on the field - and an investment of 20.000 $ is gone… so the price has to cove that too. a good breeder back here says out of 10 horses 4 are a failure, 4 break even, and with two horse you maybe earn money. and one out of 100 is a jackpot. I am not sure but I would estimate that you have to reckon that 1 out of 5 horses is a failure -> so the oher 4 have to carry the lost of the one…
and last but not least -> supply and demand. the us is a seller market, back here we have a buyer market (in that class of horses).
you have to ask yourself the question: why dont you buy the horse from video in verden or in germany? get yourself an good agent (and pick him carefully) and buy the horse for the cheap prices in germany… 
it really is not that hard - and - of course there are always some deals which didnt work out perfectly. but this happens everywhere. you always hear about the bad you never hear about the good buys… first of all the buyers wont disclose their “good” source and than you generally are quick to critize than to praise…
sorry for my english - havent used it for a long time. and yes - I am from europe, but I am not afflicted withe any association, nor breeder nor seller or else… I have my breeding mares and I enjoy being a retiree…
[QUOTE=TSWJB;8146570]
what do you mean by class 1 x-rays? Do you mean these 6k euro horses have things like OCD lesions?[/QUOTE]
Some of them maybe have OCD discrepancies or some other finding that according to the European system prevents the horse from having “Class I” x-rays. In general though, the Europeans are not as neurotic about findings on x-rays as American buyers. Again, all of this available to potential buyers before the sale.
[QUOTE=Bent Hickory;8146845]
Some of them maybe have OCD discrepancies or some other finding that according to the European system prevents the horse from having “Class I” x-rays. In general though, the Europeans are not as neurotic about findings on x-rays as American buyers. Again, all of this available to potential buyers before the sale.[/QUOTE]
how can you see the x-rays online do you know? or does your agent read them. I know she had an agent bidding for her.
I was very careful about taking x-rays to rule out OCD. I will not buy with this. because I have seen bone break off and cause chips.
so the Europeans class the x-rays. do you know the different classes?
I watched the videos on the 6, 7, 8k euro horses. these horses seemed pretty nice! one of them had a great canter and he seemed like he had quite a bit of training on him. he was balanced and didn’t look so green. so of course I am wondering why he went for 6k.
I know that you need to be experienced in order to bring these horses along because they are big warmbloods and need good flatwork. a lot of people are lacking in their flatwork so it wouldn’t work for them. I have spent the last almost four years training with a top notch trainer. she has really shown me the difference between a good canter and a bad canter and the good canter takes you to the jumps. she is teaching me to put my leg on especially when the bad distance shows up. I feel in a year or two I would be ready to take on one of these horses as a sales prospect IF these cheap horses have quality and are just green. the green is what is so expensive. It costs a lot of money to have pro rides here in the States. You pretty quickly eat up your savings on a green horse if you are not capable of doing it yourself.
When some of these imports get over here, buyers find they are way more Green then they thought they were. These horses aimed for early sale as youngsters don’t get a year or more of quality flatwork, they get broke to go both directions at three gaits and then they jump them. No slow development, no time. That’s why some are less expensive, not paying for extensive training or elite level potential. Some take many shortcuts, anything to get them to jump around when presented at either auction or sale yard. Course some do that here too. Be aware.
The more expensive ones were selected early on for more intensive training in hopes they would prove breeding quality or possess elite level talent. These are the ones that basically wash out much further along in training and are gelded and sold at age 6 and up. Obviously there are plenty of exceptions but that’s one reason for the price difference. First group is pretty Green, those sold later are the ones jumping around WEF a few weeks after stepping off the plane.
I am impressed by sisters import price of 7k. Is that door to door including vet work, quarantine and ground transportation in the states? Very good deal, don’t know anybody whose gotten one over for less then 10k, more like 12 and more to the west coast.
