[QUOTE=findeight;8146961]
When some of these imports get over here, buyers find they are way more Green then they thought they were. I am impressed by sisters import price of 7k. Is that door to door including vet work, quarantine and ground transportation in the states? Very good deal, don’t know anybody whose gotten one over for less then 10k, more like 12 and more to the west coast.[/QUOTE]
well I am impressed too! I thought importing was at least 8K. but that is what she told me, so I guess that is the cost!
and I do know that green costs money too! I paid $50 bucks a pro ride. this can totally eat up your savings if you need a ton of pro rides and can’t do it yourself. So that would explain the cheap prices.
HOWEVER I cannot find cheap prices like this for green horses in the US. I did a search on Equine.com and Dreamhorse and I couldn’t find anything really for under 20k. Gelding 16.2 hand or higher between 4 and 8.
[QUOTE=TSWJB;8146997]
HOWEVER I cannot find cheap prices like this for green horses in the US. I did a search on Equine.com and Dreamhorse and I couldn’t find anything really for under 20k. Gelding 16.2 hand or higher between 4 and 8.[/QUOTE]
Then you should load up a flight with these “cheap horses” and start selling them here!
That is probably because amercian green and euro green are very diffrent terms.
If i break and sell a youngster I would say it is very green when an advanced rider can ride it Walk, trot, canter in both directions. Maybe even pop over a Fence. Basically you can ride without getting bucked off, steer and stop.
You need to keep in mind that it is pretty common that riders here have ridden youngsters. That with the more dressagey back ground you get at least in Germany this level is okay for the home market for a 3/4 year old.
Here many Young horses are ridden by semi pros and stay with their breeder until they get sold. So that lowers the cost as well. Most of the time full care in Germany is seen a diffrent way than in the us. Makes them cheaper. Shows here are cheaper, only a weekend and everywhere. Again keeps the horses cheaper.
Since we do not have show hunters eveybody jumping is doing jumpers. So the riders ride diffrently than a US hunter ammy.
It’s almost not fair to compare the way they are sold in Europe, how they are presented over there or even the way they operate as breeders.
Over there, they are managed as livestock and culled. Countries are the size of some rural counties over here, everything is a days drive, two at most, Buyers can go to 5 sales yards in 3 different countries seeing over 250 horses that meet their criteria, see 100 those go around a course and ride 50 themselves. In FOUR DAYS.
Flying home with up to 6 possibilities for their client. It’s all about volume.
Over here, they tend to be managed as pets, we don’t like to cull and that lowest level of the market is one we view in horror. Distances are vast and in that same four days you’d be lucky to see 15 total, maybe getting 1 or 2 possibilities, maybe flying home with nothing (planning a trip to Europe).
Over there, you don’t like it when it’s lead out? They say Next. Over here you don’t like it when it’s lead out? Might be seen as rude to say don’t want to see more of it. Seller might want reasons. Over there there might be 20 prepped and ready to present under saddle when you get there, see all of them in two hours max. Over here? Might be 3, tends to take about the same amount if time to see them worked.
Thats why shopping at the shows over here is becoming more popular. The horse is further along of course hence pricier. But, at a big show, you could easily find 30 Pre Greens, see them go and try them…and if you don’t like one, they can say Next. Shipping it home is easier to arrange too.
[QUOTE=Bent Hickory;8147014]
Then you should load up a flight with these “cheap horses” and start selling them here![/QUOTE]
I work a full time job! I don’t have time to have more than 2 horse and right now the one I have is taking a lot of time. I am in the process of learning a lot of things. I finally have access to the great training I have always wanted all my life but didn’t receive. I have more skills that I need to acquire before I take a horse on and try my hand at making a profit! but I am thinking that this might be a fun thing to do in the future. just need a source of nice green horses that do not break the bank! I am hoping to brake even if I ever do this adventure!
[QUOTE=LowerSaxony_Jumper;8147023]
You need to keep in mind that it is pretty common that riders here have ridden youngsters. That with the more dressagey back ground you get at least in Germany this level is okay for the home market for a 3/4 year old.
.[/QUOTE]
I love dressage! it really is the key to bringing along a good jumper. I have ridden all my life without proper dressage skills. Now that I am acquiring them, it is making my riding better but I have tons more to learn still! but I really see how the use of your seat properly can make or break a jump. last night I was too handsy to the jumps and my horse was slowing down. yet my trainer wanted my horse’s head connected. the easiest way is the hand! but then I get the slow down. suddenly I decided to use my seat and wala, my horse jumped in a connected frame with impulsion! it was a great feeling, but something I am still learning. I think a lot of American riders do not understand dressage.
[QUOTE=Bent Hickory;8147014]
Then you should load up a flight with these “cheap horses” and start selling them here![/QUOTE]
:lol::lol::lol:
Seriously, OP…you can call about flying a horse to the US…if someone is getting (a gelding - mares and stallions are more) from Europe through quarantine in NY for less than $7500 I would like to know who that is. I mean…seriously…that’s how much it costs just to ship one and pick it up from quarantine. I just did it last year and that’s the best price I could get through a legit horse flight company. This price doesn’t include the purchase price, vetting, commission, etc. Please share who is doing it cheaper.
[QUOTE=showidaho;8147220]
:lol::lol::lol:
Seriously, OP…you can call about flying a horse to the US…if someone is getting (a gelding - mares and stallions are more) from Europe through quarantine in NY for less than $7500 I would like to know who that is. I mean…seriously…that’s how much it costs just to ship one and pick it up from quarantine. I just did it last year and that’s the best price I could get through a legit horse flight company. This price doesn’t include the purchase price, vetting, commission, etc. Please share who is doing it cheaper.[/QUOTE]
I am not close with my sister. She chose the trainer over her sister. we talk and I wish her the best. I really hope it works out for her then maybe I can do it too in the future. Right now I have my hands full with my own horse and I love him! he was a Canadian import imported by me in a snowstorm! LOL
she told me this was the cost. don’t forget you are in Montana. my sister is in NJ.
[QUOTE=TSWJB;8146231]
what do you mean by this? the horses need a break so they go to the auction?[/QUOTE]
No - They are rushed through training and pressured to look good at the auction, which can result in big problems.
[QUOTE=Equibrit;8147231]
No - They are rushed through training and pressured to look good at the auction, which can result in big problems.[/QUOTE]
very interesting! thank you everyone for all your informative replies. If I ever in the future decide to pursue this method of buying I need to be informed of all the risks. I am not sure my sister is aware of all the risks. but she might be!
Just adding a experience of a friend of mine, however she did not buy through this particular auction.
Friend was looking for a large warmblood to start getting back onto dressage scene. She decided an auction was the best place to look. She bid on a beautiful 17h gelding in Europe. This auction company guaranteed the horses they sold sound. She got him for a steal, and imported him. When he arrived, he was a beautiful horse. However, it was clear that he had never really been handled. He could w/t/c under saddle, but didn’t know how to be led. He didn’t know how to hold his feet up to be picked out. He didn’t have a clue what to do when he was turned out, and just stood there trembling, waiting for someone to save him from the ‘big scary field’. He had never experienced hoses, brushes, boots on his legs, etc. The first time he was out side when it rained, he ran around like someone was spraying water in his ears with a hose. Luckily he acclimated to everything very quickly, and became quite a nice horse. When friend called the company to find out if this was normal, she found out that the breeders kept their horses inside a stall 24/7 and only left it to go into the indoor arena to be worked. It was possible this horse had never been outside before he came to the states! :eek:
So did she get a steal of a deal on a wonderful horse? Yes. Was it ethical? I would say no.
Depending upon the auction, you may see the xrays online or they will send them to you as a PDF file. I bought a horse at the Elite Oldenburg auction last spring and had my vet here in the US evaluate her xrays and vet report.
The horses may be pressured to look good at the auction as Equibrit stated which is why they need some time to chill, not unlike getting an OTTB.
It is a very good idea to have an agent who you trust to evaluate the horse and ride it for you before the auction.
I was horse shopping last year and a trainer friend of mine was making a trip to Europe. I am not a training client nor do I currently live close to her but she offered to keep an eye out for one for me while looking for her regular customers and own resale projects. Some of the horses they were going to look at were auction horses, though I don’t think for this particular auction. They had the opportunity to see some of them prior to the auction. The whole idea of bidding on a horse at an auction is outside of my comfort zone, much less for one I haven’t laid eyes on myself, but since there was the opportunity to check some of them out, I took a look at the videos.
Keep in mind I was shopping for a hunter type. Most of the ones I saw were not hunter types. A few had potential. But I could also tell that the pros in the videos were very good and riding the pants off these horses to get them over a few big jumps somewhat in control.
It was similar to non-auction horses where I had the opportunity to look at some video beforehand.
My comments generally were (of the ones I liked): good style, has scope/talent, looks very green, looks too forward/fresh/spooky/all of the above. When trainer friend saw some of these in person and rode some, the general comments were that the horse was too forward/difficult/spooky. As in, pro rider material only and possibly too much horse for the hunter ring. Ones that didn’t have those faults I found other problems with, and a couple of maybes I didn’t love enough to not have gone over there myself.
It helped me learn that I really need to put my butt in the saddle before I write a check and if I have to begin by vetting something off video from a long way away, I know that the riders are very good and learn to look for the potential holes. Such as, oh, this horse jumps great from the long spot. And it is put to the long spot every time. Does it know how to collect? This horse looks small-ish and I’m concerned about step, but they are only jumping single jumps. Can you set up a line set to X feet/meters and video that? Or, I may probe more into the horse’s history since some of the agents just pick a horse up from a breeder’s backyard to make a video but the horse really hasn’t had a stellar training background.
It’s always a gamble buying young and green, but I think it’s easy to be blindsided by excellent video presentation and turnout which a lot of EU sellers are good at if you don’t know how to really read the rider in the videos.
These ventures really aren’t that straightforward.
An ammy at my barn has a gelding imported from Germany, who she bought sight unseen and before starting with my trainer. He was shown jumping around a 1.30m course on video, sent to her then-trainer by his import contact. He looked amazing (excellent conformation, great canter, fantastic jump, straight forward ride, etc)… then he got here and he was not. He was virtually unrideable by ammy standards - jumping made him frantic; nervous and spooky; agitated; difficult. He doesn’t go straight, turn, or stop. The kicker is that he didn’t have lead changes - in the video, he landed the lead after every fence and did one on a diagonal so they figured they were auto. In reality, it’s near impossible to get one out of him on course.
I’m not going to post his sales video, but its on par with this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WubVcOaW-qs
He was supposed to be her 3’6 A/O A circuit horse, go down to WEF and be respectable horse. She’s worked with 2 excellent trainers, and the final conclusion is that the horse just isn’t an ammy ride. She’s an excellent rider who’s grasp of dressage is the best I’ve seen in any H/J rider (better than 85% of trainers), but she can’t ride the dang thing - no ammy can.
Right now he’s working on not losing his marbles in the 2’6 hunters. He would probably fit in more in the baby jumpers, but that would do absolutely nothing for his training.
The reality is that the rider in that video knew exactly how an American buyer would want to see him, and manufactured it. In retrospect, he was probably muscled to those jumps with white knuckles and might have even been given something to calm him down. Also the “trusted” European contact eventually revealed that he didn’t actually take the video or ride the horse, that it was sent to him by someone he met in passing once, and nobody actually laid eyes on that thing before she bought him.
[QUOTE=TSWJB;8147229]
I am not close with my sister. She chose the trainer over her sister. we talk and I wish her the best. I really hope it works out for her then maybe I can do it too in the future. Right now I have my hands full with my own horse and I love him! he was a Canadian import imported by me in a snowstorm! LOL
she told me this was the cost. don’t forget you are in Montana. my sister is in NJ.[/QUOTE]
I lived in NY when I imported him and he came out of quarantine in NY. I know the cost of import (flight and quarantine). Something doesn’t add up with your sister’s pricing, unless i’m missing something? Perhaps there is some more inexpensive shipper about which I’m unaware?
Come to Canada. I think you’d be pleasantly surprised how far your $20 000 budget would go. $20 000 US translates to about $24 000 CDN dollars. You could get an imported warmblood and not have the big import costs or quarantine:)
[edit] there is a sale of Canadian Bred Sport Horses and Warmbloods. http://www.selectwarmbloodsale.com/ during the Pan Am Games this summer. You could make it a Horse Holiday.
I have had great success shopping in Canada
Just to add to Vandenbink’s comments above. I know of some lovely horses being consigned to this sale. My 5 year old Canadian Warmblood jumper mare included. With the US exchange rate at 21% you can’t beat the prices! We are not really that far away for our American friends. And our bloodlines cannot be beat!
[QUOTE=vandenbrink;8148050]
Come to Canada. I think you’d be pleasantly surprised how far your $20 000 budget would go. $20 000 US translates to about $24 000 CDN dollars. You could get an imported warmblood and not have the big import costs or quarantine:)
[edit] there is a sale of Canadian Bred Sport Horses and Warmbloods. http://www.selectwarmbloodsale.com/ during the Pan Am Games this summer. You could make it a Horse Holiday.[/QUOTE]
Vandenbrink: I think I tried a gray horse at your barn in 2007. you sound familiar.
I love Canadian Warmbloods. I bought my horse in the Parry Sound Ontario. I love him!! So quiet and fun! Unfortunately when I bought him the Canadian exchange rate went in favor of Canada at 1.1. It sucked but I got a great horse! It was alot of work however! I did 1,800 miles in 4 days and tried 18 horses! It seems so much easier shopping on your computer in your home! LOL
I remember you TSWJB. I can’t believe it’s been 8 years already. I remember your crazy road trip. Glad it was worthwhile.
