[QUOTE=TSWJB;8148959]
I see the riders butts glued to the saddle keeping those hind ends underneath the horse with soft hands but never allowing horse to waver between the shoot created by the hands. I do see sometimes the rider leaning behind the vertical. That tells me the horse is strong! [/QUOTE]
Whether the horse is strong or not, that’s the European style of riding over fences. It’s much different than the American style.
no experience with auctions, but I lived in Germany for four years and tried and bought several horses while I was there.
In my experience, the young ones are NOT NEARLY as broke as those riders make them look. I boarded at a fairly large barn with both an upper level dressage rider and top jumper trainer in residence. I watched the top jumper’s progam take a barely started (like 30 days under saddle) horse and start aiming it at 2’6 verticals. No pole work, no teaching the horse self carriage or to balance and stay soft to the base. Most of the young horses just kind of ran at the fences and they were taught to be brave, but it required a lot of rider strength and finesse. When I would go try sale horses at outside barns, when jumping, I’d have the entire ground crew clucking at my horse, because my “suitable hunter pace” was way under what they wanted. Meanwhile I felt like most of the horses were kind of dragging me to the fences. I found a few horses that adjusted to, and thrived, with a traditional hunter ride, but had my coach tell me at one point, quite seriously, that I shouldn’t release (medium crest release) in the air, because of course the horse would buck me off on the landing if I did that.
there are some lovely, amazing, and talented horses in Germany. I learned a ton riding there and getting to do the jumpers (no hunters there). But I would not assume that those videos of super-prepped horses being ridden by very talented and skilled riders (who specialize in hiding a horse’s faults and showing them to the best advantage) are truly representative of the horse you’d get off the plane.
I’ve purchased my last 3 from Europe (not auctions though.) I wanted a nicely started, quality young horse around 4 years old that would make up into a good amateur hunter.
Maybe I’ve just been super lucky but all three have been absolutely wonderful. Two got sold when I got offers that were way too good to refuse, and the other is my current show horse who’s done everything for me from the hunters to jumpers to equitation and now dressage with a high degree of fun & success.
Buying in Europe requires the same things that buying in the US does: a good eye for conformation, relationships with agents/breeders/trainers with integrity, a willingness to be objective about things like the vet check and the usual amount of luck that is needed for ANY endeavor involving a horse.
FWIW, I expect to pay between $7-8K for the import (on a gelding) into FL. Even adding that cost into the equation, as best I can tell I have paid anywhere between one third and one half of what the same horse would cost here - and as I think Findeight posted, I had the luxury of looking at a huge amount of horses to choose the one I liked best. Last time I think we must have looked at 50+ in a single weekend.
As my beloved show horse is getting older, I expect I will be in the market for another youngster in the next couple of years. Unless something really unexpected drops into my lap here, I expect I will go back to Europe again to buy. It has nothing at all to do with being “blinded by the cachet of going to Europe,” either. It is about getting more bang for my buck and having a better selection to choose from, without the need to make multiple trips to look at 2-3 at a time.
[QUOTE=Lucassb;8152012]
I’ve purchased my last 3 from Europe (not auctions though.) I wanted a nicely started, quality young horse around 4 years old that would make up into a good amateur hunter.
Maybe I’ve just been super lucky but all three have been absolutely wonderful. Two got sold when I got offers that were way too good to refuse, and the other is my current show horse who’s done everything for me from the hunters to jumpers to equitation and now dressage with a high degree of fun & success.
Buying in Europe requires the same things that buying in the US does: a good eye for conformation, relationships with agents/breeders/trainers with integrity, a willingness to be objective about things like the vet check and the usual amount of luck that is needed for ANY endeavor involving a horse.
FWIW, I expect to pay between $7-8K for the import (on a gelding) into FL. Even adding that cost into the equation, as best I can tell I have paid anywhere between one third and one half of what the same horse would cost here - and as I think Findeight posted, I had the luxury of looking at a huge amount of horses to choose the one I liked best. Last time I think we must have looked at 50+ in a single weekend.
As my beloved show horse is getting older, I expect I will be in the market for another youngster in the next couple of years. Unless something really unexpected drops into my lap here, I expect I will go back to Europe again to buy. It has nothing at all to do with being “blinded by the cachet of going to Europe,” either. It is about getting more bang for my buck and having a better selection to choose from, without the need to make multiple trips to look at 2-3 at a time.[/QUOTE]
I think that the difference is that you went to try them - not at an auction - and admittedly - 50+. Your odds of getting what you want is pretty high.
OP is referring to buying sight unseen from an auction, and then repeatedly saying that she can’t find a catch, when all of the other posters are laying them out for her.
Going to Europe, and trying 50 horses in the flesh? Yes, the odds are in your favour.
Watching some videos and bidding over the Internet on auction horses? No, they’re not.
read the conditions of sale, carefully:mad:; for, on site auctions which Professional Auction used to have, they would give contact info for the seller and you could arrange to go try the horse or, meet the seller before the sale and have horse vetted.:yes:
Ok, seriously, how the heck do you find the results on each horse? I’ve just spent the best part of an hour looking for it. Please help! Thanks!
[QUOTE=AdultAmmieMommie;8153887]
Ok, seriously, how the heck do you find the results on each horse? I’ve just spent the best part of an hour looking for it. Please help! Thanks![/QUOTE]
Same here. Can’t find anything.
It is my understanding that the overall stats from previous auctions are archived. The individual results for each horse are only available to see for a short time after each auction…
Man, it was the dang shipping costs that killed us when we imported a “cheaper” mare.
Sorry that’s all the input I have. I was only 15 when we imported her haha.
[QUOTE=00Seven;8152873]
I think that the difference is that you went to try them - not at an auction - and admittedly - 50+. Your odds of getting what you want is pretty high.
OP is referring to buying sight unseen from an auction, and then repeatedly saying that she can’t find a catch, when all of the other posters are laying them out for her.
Going to Europe, and trying 50 horses in the flesh? Yes, the odds are in your favour.
Watching some videos and bidding over the Internet on auction horses? No, they’re not.[/QUOTE]
Ya, took 3 days, sat on about 12 horses in Holland. Horse I ended up buying I sat on on Day 1, so got to sit on him Day 2 and Day 3 as well. He’s gone on to win countless championships with me, and 11 years later is sitting in a field enjoying his very well earned retirement.
When I imported him, his price, plus shipping/vet/my trip there was less than 1/2 of what I would have had to spend in the US, closer to 1/3, for the same animal.
I would do it again in a heartbeat, but I would not buy sight unseen from an auction. I need to be able to handle the animal in person before I shell out any sort of cash!
Roamingnome: I did the same thing after looking here for over a year. Found something that was pretty much 1/3 of what I would have spent in North America. For me it was purely $$ driven and worked out…
[QUOTE=Mistysmom;8154866]
Roamingnome: I did the same thing after looking here for over a year. Found something that was pretty much 1/3 of what I would have spent in North America. For me it was purely $$ driven and worked out…[/QUOTE]
Yes, I’d been looking for several months, vetted 3- all had MAJOR red flags (cancer in a 6yo etc…) I could have dropped the budget a bunch to get the same caliber horse I was seeing in the US, but decided to stick to the budget and got the best teacher and partner I could have asked for!
8k is about the cost right now to get a horse (filly or colt under the age of 2 or any age gelding) to NJ (Newark). Anything that has it’s reproductive parts and is over the age of 2 costs ++++ (mares more on the 10k line and stallions way more than that). If you import the youngsters you can put more than one on a pallet and reduce your costs.
What finally sparked us to have trainer look for a horse for us in Europe was the shenanigans we experienced looking at horses near home. After having people insulted because we passed on horses we tried here (too green, difficult lead changes for the stage my kid was riding at at the time), then glare at us and our trainer at shows, or keep pressuring us, etc., we just felt uncomfortable and didn’t want to chance it anymore. We also noted that other riders who bought local horses had to deal with things like others putting them down when they had a bad trip, saying things like they didn’t ride the horse as well as previous owner, etc. It occurred to us that in addition to other considerations, it might be nice sidestep these sorts of things by looking in Europe.
My friends do an annual auction in Argentina for young horses (3-5 years, generally) where for a couple of months before the auction people can come to their stables and actually try the horses out themselves, or watch them being schooled by a pro, every week. They have current rads on all of them, and videos of the horses throughout the pre-auction training process- both under saddle and free jumping. I would feel comfortable doing something like that, but not buying though a regular auction.
I fell in love with a horse on a European site and asked my trainer if she’s bought any horses off video from Europe. She had, but said she wouldn’t want to do it for an adult ammy client like me. For her, if she gets the horse and it turns out to be more jumper than hunter, she can train and sell it, and ride it. But most ammys like me want the horse to feel a certain way and or respond a certain way, and without riding it, there’s no way to know. It’s just too big a gamble for a client with one horse. I think she’s right, I wouldn’t be happy with a horse who was too far out of my comfort zone “feeling” wise.
That being said, I’d still love to go to Europe to shop, the volume of what you can see seems amazing.
As for your sister OP, sometimes ignorance is bliss and hopefully this will work out for her. I bought my mare 2 months after I started riding again after 25 years off…I was in a rush. Part of me wishes I had leased a schoolmaster for a year or two, but I adore my mare now too, and were great partners. So, you just never know. I do hope it turns opt well, let us know with an update!
Question for those who prefer to shop in Europe instead of with US owners and breeders: what is the #1 reason you shop in Europe ?
Are you looking for specific bloodlines, or is it quality of the horses, or the low price (including shipping) ?
[QUOTE=Mardi;8155802]
Question for those who prefer to shop in Europe instead of with US owners and breeders: what is the #1 reason you shop in Europe ?
Are you looking for specific bloodlines, or is it quality of the horses, or the low price (including shipping) ?[/QUOTE]
For me, and my parents, the horses we were seeing were nice, but as I said earlier, all 3 we vetted horribly failed PPEs, and we had a healthy budget in the mid 5 figures.
My mom had a decorator over, she saw my ribbons, and mom told her of our trouble finding a not half-dead horse. She had been on the Swiss team earlier in her life and her Dad was a well known breeder (now retired). She set us up with a fabulous agent, and the rest is history. My parents had no idea what they were doing/were in for, but even two non-horsey people could tell the quality was in a whole other league/the process was much easier.
Knowing what I do now, I would 100% go over there for the bloodlines, the flatwork (!!!) and the price. Still would not buy sight unseen however.
Well I am not sure if she is ignorant or if she is on to a great thing! That is why I started the post. The prices in Europe are really good for what you are getting even if it is green. I am disappointed that you cannot get this over here. I really like to try my horses. Now granted I was shopping in 2007, and prices were high, but I wanted a horse in Manitoba and the owners would not go lower than 30k. I offered them 25k. and I would have approximately 2.5k shipping charges. They said no. there were approximately 19 horses in the 8k to 10k price range at this auction. That is a good price.
I did see my sister at a show this weekend. She told me that she is pretty much guaranteed a great horse because only top notch horses are selected in this auction. For brain, soundness, x-rays and quality. If they do not have all these pieces then would not be allowed in the auction. This seems to contradict several people who said buyer beware in an auction. My understanding from my sister is its pretty much a guarantee. And if she doesn’t like the horse she will sell it and double her money. This all seems wonderful!
I just hope the training has improved at this place because when I was there it was all about jay shuttleworth miracle bits (very harsh bits), tight martingales and tack nosebands. This is a major reason why I decided to explore better training options.
[QUOTE=Happyhooves;8154919]
What finally sparked us to have trainer look for a horse for us in Europe was the shenanigans we experienced looking at horses near home. After having people insulted because we passed on horses we tried here (too green, difficult lead changes for the stage my kid was riding at at the time), then glare at us and our trainer at shows, or keep pressuring us, etc., we just felt uncomfortable and didn’t want to chance it anymore. We also noted that other riders who bought local horses had to deal with things like others putting them down when they had a bad trip, saying things like they didn’t ride the horse as well as previous owner, etc. It occurred to us that in addition to other considerations, it might be nice sidestep these sorts of things by looking in Europe.[/QUOTE]
Dont kid yourself on that one. That crap pretty much came over with the first shipment of horses from Europe in the sixteenth century and still goes on over there. Horse trading is horse trading. I am certain the “caveat emptor” advice originated with a horse deal gone bad and was just translated by the Romans from far earlier civilizations.
You can also hear disparaging comments about imports around the back gate over here made by trainers/agents/clients who saw the same horses over in Europe and passed. Most look in about the same places via the same sources so look at the same sale horses.
Think some are kidding themselves about the level of training young horses destined for sale get too. The statements about all the Dressage work given to them are generally incorrect. They get them going WTC and send them to the fences, anything to get them sold ASAP. They don’t know any more then a horse over here with 6 months under saddle except they jump. The trick is find the exceptions that didn’t get rushed and are honestly reoresented.
There are just as many pitfalls for buyers over there as over here. That’s why so many stress good connections on both sides and taking advantage of the ability to see and try as many as possible on buying trips from trusted agents.
They are generally cheaper then over here because they are treated more like a commodity or livestock. They don’t keep them all forever, they need to sell as soon after its going under saddle and price accordingly.
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