I’m going to agree with him, not that I’ve ever ridden at that level, because the accident that made me quit jumping was a 2 stride vertical - oxer. My problem with the veritcal-oxer isn’t the combination itself but the distance it was set. This was set on a longer 2-stride (some people were putting in three, I probably should have tried that with my horse & had the rail) and my horse TRIED his heart out to save us when I asked him to step up, but we both wound up going down. Granted, this wasn’t an A/AA show, I’m not a professional, people had raised flags about the course setting before, but I’m just going to agree with him only because of my pure hated and PTSD when it comes to vertical-oxer 2 strides. 
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It’s not at all fair to the horses to set combinations on stupid striding just to try and get a points spread in the results. I 100% agree and I’m tired of seeing it in classes.
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I agree, that there should be some minimum standards because in the name of “technique” I feel riders at top levels are pushed to a sometimes unfair degree. I’ve heard some appalling distances set even at WC levels from firsthand accounts - talking a 7m combination at 1.60 and full spreads. 
I get it these are pros but there should be so much more to SJ than fitting into unreasonable distances.
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Personally I find track questions much more indicative of skill vs Can Your Horse Jump Max Spread From A Standstill.
I agree - you don’t have to set traps to test riders and horses. Not if you’re a good designer.
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Olympic gold medalist, son of a gold medalist engaged to Eve Jobs.
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Can you even imagine what the Jobs family paid for him, I love that horse.
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Update.
Harry Charles was second in the qualifier yesterday for the Grand Prix that starts at noon tomorrow in Wellington.
Order of go:
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Glad he’s ok. Where are all of our top riders - is there a big money class somewhere else this week?
There is a World Cup Qualifier class in Thermal this week plus a 4* in Ocala. A bunch of East Coast riders have flown out to CA and I saw a bunch of top names in Ocala as well.
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The qualifier and the Grand Prix are out on the grass field down on the corner this week, not at the main showgrounds, so I’m guessing some people may have elected not to show in those classes.
Plus there are so many shows and so many big classes every week these days. It’s kind of crazy.
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I figured they had gone on to bigger things somewhere else this week - thanks!
Here’s a video of Harry’s jump off on Thursday.
https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1150374976456048&id=100044506688408
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McLain is hurt from his fall a couple of weeks ago.
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I just saw the video of this fall, and it was pretty bad. But interestingly, it was essentially the same thing that happened to Harry Charles, but at a single oxer (or maybe coming out of a long line). The horse looked like it totally misjudged the jump and left a step out. So I think that calling for getting rid of vertical oxer two strides because the horses can read it wrong, is crazy. I would also like to know if anyone else in the class that Harry had trouble in had a problem with that combination. Unfortunately sometimes horses misjudge a jump.
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The local course designers always put the oxers first in similar type combinations or lines for safety reasons - it’s what the course designers are taught here. I am talking Bronze shows, so developmental type classes, but it the logic stands at lower levels, it makes sense it would stand at higher levels.
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Harry Charles ended up seventh in the Grand Prix out on the grass in Wellington today as the fastest four faulter in the first round.
Richard Vogel won yet again. He was not on that superstar bay horse of his, but he is fast and slick on all of them.
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FB post from Peter Charles: https://www.facebook.com/100044506688408/posts/pfbid04ept9PJbjmanMBz4S4M94mhNYKZ8caPDtfKnP2gpTsHniCBfE4KFCCgNFAHaK1efl/?
A statement from Olympic Gold Medalist, Peter Charles MBE
Currently we’re out here in Wellington, with a nice mix of new and regular horses.
Last week though, on our second week of jumping; something happened which has worried me for a long time.
Course builders making distances short in two stride verticle to oxer combinations.
Harry had a bad fall as his horse picked up in one stride, although both horse and rider didn’t get injured, both were extremely lucky.
Harry rode it perfectly, and as Nick Skelton said “ he couldn’t have ridden it better”
This brings up the question why?
So over 25yrs ago, riders got together to ask for the removal of triple bars to be taken out of the middle of combinations or second part of a double. Why? Because on two strides they could pick up in one and even on one stride paddled, resulting in bad falls.
Nobody missed those dinosaur jumps.
Then shortly after the “short” 2 stride distance came out of Germany, as a means to help the course builder, to limit clear rounds. This soon was copied on a large scale worldwide.
Since then a lot has changed, generally ground conditions have really improved, to the point which when on sand there is nearly no speed limit a horse can travel at. The time allowed’s are much tighter, and horses tend to have a lot more quality and are more careful.
So when horses leaving a stride early, it usually results in a hard fall.
They seem to do it more to a oxer then to a vertical, sometimes the pole goes in between the front legs resulting in a rotational fall, hurting the horse and rider. These are extremely bad falls. There are plenty of examples worldwide in 2 stride vertical to oxer combinations/doubles to verify this, with some very very sad outcomes. This shouldnt have happened as often as it has.
Numerous top riders/trainers absolutely agree on this, it’s in my opinion it’s the worst fall you can get while jumping.
Also on sand this fall is extremely painful as the surface’s are now very compact.
In comparison the most extreme 2 stride competion in the world is a 6 bar where the horses jump only 2 stride down 6 jumps.
Personally I’ve never seen a horse pick up in one of these, and I’ve seen, ridden, and won plenty of them.
Why ? Because the distance set, are very fair not short, and maybe because no oxer?
This years Olympics provided some of the very best jumping the sport has ever seen. There was not one of these combinations included as the course builders rightly judged them to be a risk we couldn’t afford after last time. That really answers a lot of questions going forward as the sport excelled world wide with no drama.
The solution? Have a minimum set distance it can be. This has to have a good tolerance built into it, to accommodate bigger striding horses.
Limit the use of vertices to oxer 2 stride to 5 star course builders , or under their supervision as TD. I would certainly not use in a jump off or speed class. Education of course builders,to realise horses are flight animals by nature, be fair and try not to confuse them, by what is bad course design. This also has to filter all the way down the ranks, everyone deserves the same attention to detail in course design. By the way there are excellent course builders out there and you know who you are!
I’m not talking about making heights, or time allowed or angles easier, or backing away from challenges that the very best need to face, I’m on about not cheating the horse with one partiicular situation that when it happens great riders/trainers have not found a reliable solution for. that even when ridden correctly as Harry did can have a bad outcome.
There’s a lot in the heat of the moment in competition, we can’t change like the weather, quite rightly the shadows or reflections of water, in night classes etc, but this is something we can be proactive with, make it better, and if small alterations keeps more horse and rider combinations on their feet and not getting badly hurt, while maintaining the integrity of the sport and everyone from the riders to our precious horses and owners and hard working grooms benefit, I’m all in.
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That was a well-reasoned argument. Undeniably time is way more of a factor than it used to be. Seems like a simple fix to make a minimum length requirement in the two-stride. I love the historical reference to Germany. It was fun when the Nations Cups were in essence Yorkshire vs Hannover.
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He’s absolutely right. The argument is always that it’s testing “rideability” and “adjustability” but it’s just not fair to the horses. I hate seeing people jump into a combination and crank the horse down to crawl over the second element.
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Does anyone know the distance of this “short” two stride? I’m curious how much variability there is.
In eventing land, our combinations are pretty standard 12’ strides at most horse trials. 24’ one stride, 36’ two stride. You used to see some more 27’ one strides and 39’ two strides 20+ years ago, but I can’t say it has been common in recent times.
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