Has Anyone Ever Successfully Retrained a Bolting Horse?

[Crockpot]

I read the first post again and you state you have medical conditions. How did you expect this horse to work out for you?.

maybe you should read it again

Horse was not intended for Op and does not really sound like he is a lost cause =read it again maybe - though that seems to be always suggested here for any time there is a bump in the road - dump the horse.

He seemed a perfect gentleman on the ground, sane, solid, sweet. Once I sat in the saddle, I fell absolutely in love with him. Very nicely forward without rushing, balanced, sensitive, rode without whip or spurs and he w-t-c, did all lateral work, changes of direction, everything great. At the canter, all I had to do was sit and draw myself up and bring my shoulders back and he collected. Lengthen leg and put heels down to transition down. Seller rode in him tight contact with a whip and spurs, I rode him in a somewhat lighter contact and he was perfect and I could feel him asking me what I wanted and was so obedient and compliant. We had been told about a one time incident where the previous trainer had come off at a show, kept questioning was told it was once, never happened again, lead to believe it was a rough trainer, and would be suitable for seller. I would’ve bought him on the spot for myself, I never felt such a connection ever when trying a horse, fell head over heals, but since I was looking for a friend, I highly recommended him to her.

So, after lots and lots of questions between seller, trainer, buyer, her trainer, myself, she decided to buy and had him shipped. He was great, settled in well, went right to work for his new owner, super! He really bonded to her as she spent a lot of time just hanging out with him.

Fast forward a month or so, and after a lesson, she told a friend to get on him and hack him down the road, which was his routine, Trainer walking alongside, they went down the drive and out onto the quiet road, where he suddenly spun and bolted hell for leather back to the barn, dumping the rider hard on her side. Luckily she wasn’t hurt badly. Horse went to owner and put his head on her shoulder.

[exploding_pony]

I feel horrible for the horse. Also for the people who have tried to help. Horse sounds like he has a very bad panic button.

A couple of months with a trainer isn’t going to fix this, it will probably take years before he is reliable.

I wish everyone involved the best of luck. Like I said in the string about this horse originally, in my experience horses have default behavior. That’s where they go when they have a problem.

If the person who took on the horse isn’t there to work with the trainer, even if the trainer gets it fixed, it’s going to come back when the owner gets it back unless the owner is there working with the trainer every step of the way. Would be much, much better to have a trainer working on site with the owner.

I don’t see how you ship a horse off for a couple of months and expect something this ingrained to be “gone”.

[Crockpot]

it will probably take years before he is reliable.

based on what- horse was perfect until 1.5 months in when different person got on and went on a trail ride

I think the judgements here on the horse are overly harsh¨and negative - and no I dont know any of the people involved.

[caper]

I agree with exploding pony. I think you missed this key part of the OP first post.
It will be a hard fix indeed.

@artisticgold;8561007

Owner reached out to former owners, and trainers, and found out that this horse has a long history of bolting, out of nowhere with no warning, and has since he was started.

[IPEsq]

@artisticgold;8646613

Yes, unfortunately it’s not the update I wanted to post. I did a ton of work with him on the ground, lots of respect groundwork, desensitizing, despooking, etc. He is a very bright, enjoyable, sweet horse that loves people. Finally I rode him in a pelham as the first owner/trainer suggested. I felt like he was too heavy in my hands and I couldn’t get him to soften, and carry himself as well as I know he can. The third ride in, after I had lunged and ridden about 15-20 minutes, he got strong and ramped up at the trot, and I couldn’t get him to come back to me. I turned him in a tight circle, and instead of slowing or stopping, he picked up a canter, and then we slingshotted out of it across the arena, and he galloped around several times before coming to a stop. My biggest worry is he would fall with me. My husband had been watching and was terrified, and told me to get off! As much as I wanted to, I said “No, I can’t”. So, I gathered him back up and proceeded to work him harder, doing a lot of suppling and lateral work, haunches in, shoulder in, renvers, bending, giving, unlocking. I walked and trotted, I have to admit I was a bit scared to canter again. At one point he started to feel strong again, so I ran him into the shavings pile corner, and made him keep his head in the corner, and did some giving to the bit again. Continued to work him for about a half hour until he got soft, light, responsive. When I was happy with the work, I finally got off, lunged him some more. After that I did more ground work, making him move his feet and stay out of my space, and stay with me. THEN I did some clicker/trick training. As much as I wished it hadn’t happened, at least I stayed on, and then made him work longer, harder, so he didn’t get out of work, which I think was a bit of a success.

When the bolded part happens, this is when you do the pulley rein into the arena fence with one like this. Don’t wait for the switch to flip.

Did you think he would fall at the gallop because he was going to fast for the size of the arena? Or something else? Practice bridging your reins and doing it on the fly. It’s a little more of a mess with double reins but can be done.

These methods aren’t the fix, but they are some coping/safety techniques you can keep in your mind.

[dog_amp_horsemom]

This horse simply lacks confidence and it has now developed into a habit of wrong behavior as well.
I would find someone who will ride a nice calm horse with you and this horse and after you ride in the ring take him out with the other horse - starting with just a few feet away from the barn and then back to the barn - going further away from the barn ea. day. You can also work him intensely around the barn ( circles, changes of direction, then calmly walk away from the barn and let him rest in a spot away from the barn and then go back to the barn. You need to do these behavior modification exercises ea. day if possible to gradually reduce his anxiety and you must remain confident as well.

[artisticgold]

At this point, my trainer is his last chance. I don’t want to put him with anyone locally and have them fail or possibly screw him up worse. He is an absolutely lovely horse to have around, and absolutely wonderful in the saddle, he is quite addicting to ride. If he were a jerk, mean, or nasty, I never would’ve taken him on, he’s a joy to work with, with the exception of this one training fault. I don’t believe he is scared, he just gets ramped up and is hard to bring him back. I did turn his head to his side, but didn’t have the other hand braced on his neck for a pulley rein, it’s something I need to practice. I am not an inexperienced, or timid rider, it’s not the first time in my life a horse has bolted with me, but I don’t want him to make a habit of it, so that’s why he needs to go to the best horseman I know. I also realize it may be a long time or forever that he isn’t completely trust worthy, but if he is trained to disengage the hind quarters and stop the feet from moving, it will be a safety valve if he starts to escalate. If he weren’t to go to this trainer, he probably would end up at an auction either going to the Amish or for meat, that would be a shame. I have had lots of horses with serious problems under saddle, and have always worked through it, I just need someone more skilled than I am to short circuit the behavior and then teach me how to duplicate it. If he needs to stay longer, then we can talk about it, but not sure if they train in the dead of summer, as it gets very hot there. Anyway, he is leaving on Saturday, and I’m not worried as he is a very good traveler and I have a great shipper lined up. Once there, I have no worries at all. I will post updates as I get them!

[Crockpot]

I think you are doing the right thing-not sure what the negative people are suggesting as an alternative- kill the horse now maybe.

Hope your plan gets good result. No harm in trying.

[Justmyluck]

@artisticgold;8646613

Yes, unfortunately it’s not the update I wanted to post. I did a ton of work with him on the ground, lots of respect groundwork, desensitizing, despooking, etc. He is a very bright, enjoyable, sweet horse that loves people. Finally I rode him in a pelham as the first owner/trainer suggested. I felt like he was too heavy in my hands and I couldn’t get him to soften, and carry himself as well as I know he can. The third ride in, after I had lunged and ridden about 15-20 minutes, he got strong and ramped up at the trot, and I couldn’t get him to come back to me. I turned him in a tight circle, and instead of slowing or stopping, he picked up a canter, and then we slingshotted out of it across the arena, and he galloped around several times before coming to a stop. My biggest worry is he would fall with me. My husband had been watching and was terrified, and told me to get off! As much as I wanted to, I said “No, I can’t”. So, I gathered him back up and proceeded to work him harder, doing a lot of suppling and lateral work, haunches in, shoulder in, renvers, bending, giving, unlocking. I walked and trotted, I have to admit I was a bit scared to canter again. At one point he started to feel strong again, so I ran him into the shavings pile corner, and made him keep his head in the corner, and did some giving to the bit again. Continued to work him for about a half hour until he got soft, light, responsive. When I was happy with the work, I finally got off, lunged him some more. After that I did more ground work, making him move his feet and stay out of my space, and stay with me. THEN I did some clicker/trick training. As much as I wished it hadn’t happened, at least I stayed on, and then made him work longer, harder, so he didn’t get out of work, which I think was a bit of a success.

To the bolded part you should have gotten off of him when he relaxed and praised the crap out of him. Instead you got off and work him harder after he softened. You just punished him for relaxing? That is the complete opposite of what he needed.

I have a bolter and it has gotten light years better since I started praising the crap out of him for behaving. You work amazing for 15 minutes? I literally get off and give him tons and tons of treats. I don’t care if I planned for an hour ride. He gets rewarded out the wazoo for behaving. If we are on a trail ride and he walks past something scary he immediately gets a treat. There are days where he misbehaves still an I get off of him and walk to the round pen to continue our ride. He hates the round pen but the second he relaxes in it and gives me what I want we are finished. The horse needs a round pen so you can control him and not have any unexpected turns.

But you essentially punished the horse for relaxing and you will never get anywhere by doing that.

[belgianWBLuver]

[QUOTE=Justmyluck;8649987]
To the bolded part you should have gotten off of him when he relaxed and praised the crap out of him. Instead you got off and work him harder after he softened. You just punished him for relaxing? That is the complete opposite of what he needed.

I have a bolter and it has gotten light years better since I started praising the crap out of him for behaving. You work amazing for 15 minutes? I literally get off and give him tons and tons of treats. I don’t care if I planned for an hour ride. He gets rewarded out the wazoo for behaving. If we are on a trail ride and he walks past something scary he immediately gets a treat. There are days where he misbehaves still an I get off of him and walk to the round pen to continue our ride. He hates the round pen but the second he relaxes in it and gives me what I want we are finished. The horse needs a round pen so you can control him and not have any unexpected turns.

But you essentially punished the horse for relaxing and you will never get anywhere by doing that.[/QUOTE]

Totally agree with you! After one good thing - end the work either get off or cool out praising horsey.
This was the approach we took with my abused BWP. Took a long time but it worked and now he is attentive, focused on his rider and a happy horse!
(we also used the round pen on his bad days and YES he understood that the RP meant “Change your attitude, focus and you get a reward”. As soon as he softened - THE WORK ENDED).
I don’t take him out on the trails (where he would spook at nothing at all, buck me off and then bolt or bolt and throw a buck in to get me off) until AFTER his arena workout. Then we put on a “german”, set loosely but there if I need it, and walk on the trails praising him for the good work he did in the arena. 15 mins and we are back at the barn for a massage, shower and all the good things he likes.
He is a lovely trusting guy now, I’ve learned a ton about how to do quality ground work and how to work with a difficult horse. And the most important thing, I feel good about not throwing in the towel on this horse. He is a nice one!!

[atlatl]

OP, I’ve been following this along. I have a horse who like yours is super sweet, loves people, the whole nine yards. He is also very insecure and is perfectly willing to save me from scary situations by getting the heck out of Dodge at top speed.

It’s been literally 3 plus years to figure him out. First and foremost for my guy, we need to be absolutely ruthless about watching his food. He is in full training and schooling the GP this year. Last year he was showing I-1 successfully, with my trainer, and we fed him up a little to increase his energy. No kidding, his brain was fried and stuck to the pan in a couple of weeks as in panic striken running away from things. Cut his grain back to around 1/4 cup, sweet boy was back.

Note also that I, the AA owner, do not ride this horse regularly. My very talented trainer does mainly to make sure that the horse has a good experience every ride. I almost sold him after he took me for a 3 minute runaway in the arena, with a child on a pony in the ring, but decided instead that the best way to help him was to NOT send him down the road without a better understanding of why he bolted. After he was with the trainer for 1 year and I improved my skills riding a schoolmaster and got some confidence back, I showed him 1 season with great results. Then we increased his grain and made him crazy again. Cut the grain and handed the ride back to the trainer to move him up.

The really amazing thing is that there are some things that would spook a normal horse to which he is completely oblivious.

Anyway, long story relatively short, the bottom line is that this horse is super sensitive. He will never ever be steady Eddie and the rider needs to be aware of that, be the leader all the time, and have a pretty high level of skills. I joke that he will be absolutely bomb-proof 5 minutes before he dies. I’ve decided that I can live with that and it’s a great motivator for me to continue to hone my skills because, when he’s good, he is hands down the best thing ever, fun to ride, crazy talented and tries his heart out.

Good Luck.

[belgianWBLuver]

@atlatl;8650096

…
First and foremost for my guy, we need to be absolutely ruthless about watching his food. He is in full training and schooling the GP this year. Last year he was showing I-1 successfully, with my trainer, and we fed him up a little to increase his energy. No kidding, his brain was fried and stuck to the pan in a couple of weeks as in panic striken running away from things. Cut his grain back to around 1/4 cup, sweet boy was back.
…

^ This also for my guy. The minute the fat content goes up his brain gets fried. Therefore:
I give him 1/4 of the recommended dosage of his supplement. He gets 1/4 lb of Nutrena Safechoice (non heating) daily
He gets Alfalfa in the AM/PM and free choice Bermuda grass hay daily.
He is happy,balanced and ulcer free on this low grain diet!

[artisticgold]

I do agree with you all about getting rewarding a horse when they have done well, which is what I did in getting off once he felt soft and responsive and obedient. Normally I would’ve ended my session right there, and called it a good day’s work. However, I also had the mind for this particular day, that while it ended well, I felt we should proceed in more work that would get him tuned into me, and focused and responsive. It wasn’t punishing, but instead asking him to respond correctly to my ground signals, and get more and more joined up to me. Maybe it was right, maybe not, but it was what felt right at the moment, as he certainly wasn’t tired, and I just wanted him to keep thinking that he needed to be listening to me, and not to himself. It was a great work session, and never was he upset or angry or testing, I think it was a time to let him go freely around while still testing his response to me. He needs to be well aware that the human is in charge, and when we got done, I felt like he was more bonded and respectful. We ended doing some trick training, which involved putting his foot on the steps of the mounting block on cue, so it was a fun thing, not so much a punishment. He loves clicker training, and enjoys the playful aspect of it, but The respect aspect has to be there first. So, maybe I could’ve done it another way that day, but I certainly didn’t want him to think that bolting ends his work day. John Lyons always says his 3 principles are, the human can’t get hurt, the horse can’t get hurt, and the horse has to be calmer, quieter, and more responsive at the end than at the beginning, which is what we achieved. He was a happy camper.

[horsechick]

Sorry-I haven’t read this whole thread, but have physical issues been ruled out? Lyme? Kissing spine? Ulcers?

[artisticgold]

He was examined from stem to stern by a previous owner, they covered all the bases. I don’t believe it is physical now after being around him, I think it’s just behavioral. He isn’t even scared when he does it, he just gets excited and strong and blows through your aids. I believe he may have been ridden with heavy hands, as he doesn’t really soften or give to the bit, he leans on it. I think the Pelham actually made it worse, not better. They will be riding him in a light snaffle bit, and the goal will be to go back to basics and get him lighter and more responsive in his mouth and his body, not allowing him to lock up on the bit or to lock his neck or body. I just believe he is a big strong boy and now knows his power, that power needs to be taken away by the most capable person out there, and then be able to be replicated by me under his guidance.

[LilyandBaron]

OP- I think this horse is very lucky to have you. You seem to want this cowboy you greatly respect to figure out how to short circuit the bolt. I think 2 months is reasonable to come up with an effective strategy for the cowboy to show you to continue the training - not to eliminate the bolt entirely, necessarily. Or, as you’ve said, figure out if you and this horse aren’t a match. Not sure why the criticism from some. Excited to see future updates!

[Regardless]

I know this is an old thread, but what ever came of the situation?

[artisticgold]

I ended up giving him to a very knowledgeable trainer that I know. She has an excellent support team and found out he had epm and also his body was structurally a wreck so he was very unbalanced when he would get motoring. She put in a lot of tine, money and effort and he has even been ridden in a parade!

[caper]

Didn’t you stated he was looked over from stem to stern? Glad this trainer tested him for EPM and got to the root of his problems and he is in a happy situation.

[WildLittleWren]

I am glad he ended up with someone who was able to work with him! Did the lady ever find a safe, reliable mount?