Has Anyone Here Done Any Packing?

My husband and I talked last night about trying to do a pack trip next year with our horses. Probably in the Great Smoky National Park or near Mt. Rogers…not sure yet this far out as I have not had a chance to research it. I know horses are allowed in both places.

My main questions are how to safely use the packs and pack horse/mule as well as the logistics of it…what to take, how much food for the horses, what feed is best to take, etc… I’m a seasoned backpacker so going into the backcountry carrying all I need is not new to me…I know what people need…what I need to learn is the best ways to provide/care for our horses.

Our horses are Spanish Mustangs. They are smaller and thrifty, sturdy and don’t need a lot of feed or concentrates. Granted on a trip like this we’ll have to provide them with more feed than normal due to the level of exercise but I still doubt it would be as much as a typical larger breed horse. None of ours are hobble trained yet but that we can work on but I’m unsure of how much grazing horses would be allowed to do in some places. High tying overnight would not be an issue…our horses tie well.

So I’d love to hear from those of you who know how to pack out and what you take, how much, etc… Training a pack horse tips also…we certainly have plenty of steady horses here we could train for this but will need to work on it. We are thinking next summer so we have time to prepare…but I wanted to start thinking on it now. If anyone can suggest any resources, I’d appreciate that also.

Thanks!

bad news- you cannot graze them in the GSMNP, and there’s nothing to eat anyway.

Cowboymom et al will be along-and you should buy Joe Back’s book, Horses, Hitches, and Rocky Trails.

My husband bringing a string of her horses out of Cowboy Heaven
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b5d909b3127ccecbed2714934500000010O08AZN2TRm4Ytwe3nwA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

her husband and two horses in Placer Creek, I think?
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7d908b3127ccec1ef9a1e268200000010O08AZN2TRm4Ytwe3nwA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

OMG Katarine…that Cowboy Heaven picture is incredible! Heaven indeed!

I kind of expected that from the Smokies after backpacking last fall from Fontana Dam to Newfound Gap on the Appalachian Trail. There is some grass on top of the balds where the AT crosses but not much…enough for a night though for one/two horses. I know that the Smokies are VERY strict about use and where you camp, etc…no dogs allowed, etc…but interestingly there are hitching posts all over the park where horses are allowed as well as bear boxes you can use. There are a LOT of bears in the Park.

One plan that might work to avoid having to carry a lot of food for horses is to ride from horse camp to horse camp and have food/hay waiting for us there. Not as fun as truly packing out all we need but maybe a better choice for two greenie packers like us. There are (at least on my map) a number of horse camps maybe 10-12 miles apart in the Southeastern part of the park. I know one lady, Lucy Lowe, who runs a camp up near the TN-NC border and I need to contact here about the feasibleness of doing that up there. Long story but I met her last fall while hiking. Super lady.

Thanks for the reply and info!

I would very much suggest, if possible, getting a book like Smoke Elsers Packin’ In (he puts on clinics here every year and they are outstanding) and taking a course in it (they offer them out here every year and they are worth every penny. http://www.amazon.com/Smoke-Elser/e/B001KIRLCG

you will learn about how to set highlines, hobbles, etc.
What kind of tack is best, how to manty a load (we have speed competitions!), how to use and pack “panniards” and Decker vs sawbuck pack saddles
which knots are the most helpful (I learned a bunch!)
Feed-here we have to use certified weed free,
emergency equipment
how to manage stock
tips for packing food

you may know all that stuff already but I found it very very helpful and will be taking the clinic again when it is offered.

Have fun, sounds like a blast!!

Thanks lilitiger2! I’ll check out that book.

Smoke’s book is good, yes. He’s the real deal.

DDB that trip was magical and tough. We missed a trail (stepped over it) and spent about 8? hours trying to drop down and turn left. At one point we came out of the trees onto a hillface so steep I got nauseous.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b5d909b3127ccecbedb961937f00000010O08AZN2TRm4Ytwe3nwA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/
See those trees? that’s what we scrambled up.
See that snowpatch? that’s where we were.

Finally on the path back home…
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b5d909b3127ccecbedd43052b000000010O08AZN2TRm4Ytwe3nwA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

and it was all worth it.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b5d909b3127ccecbece2f8f31f00000010O08AZN2TRm4Ytwe3nwA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

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See these ears? He carried me over all those miles without a hitch. When we crossed a creek late that night, he didn’t drink. He walked an elk trail parallel to that creek for quite some time- from dusk through dark to dark damnit. Finally, he stopped. He looked left, he looked right. He stepped left and drank his fill…then doubled back to his right and carried me to camp. In the blackness he knew he was here. Camp is about 10 minutes to our right.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b5d909b3127ccecbec2425f3a100000010O08AZN2TRm4Ytwe3nwA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

With game trails intersecting real trails, it can be easy to goof up. But the thing is, that’s backcountry for you. And the joke is that if you’ve been packing horses for 20 years you spent 10 of it catching horses :slight_smile:

Sorry, you stirred my soul. If she comes by to post, listen. she and her husband know how to pack a horse, make it right, and make it fun.

We do many many pack trips with our family, nearly every weekend in the summers here.

There are some great books that will help you get started-this one is probably the best. http://www.outfitterssupply.com/Packin-in-on-Mules-Horses/productinfo/WBKP1/

HA! I just panned down and see Kat has introduced me. :lol: I have her Smoke Elser book… :uhoh:

I don’t know what your limitations are there- we recently moved to a spot where it’s entirely legal to take and graze horses in the backcountry but there’s not much grass for them b/c the trees are so thick and hills too steep. So we are having to haul feed for our horses for the first time ever and that’s a learning curve. Have to figure out how many pounds per day per horse, some pack horse cubes (roughage and bulk) and high octane feed for the calories, then figure out which horse can carry it and how many horses to take to carry enough for all of them. It expands quickly! Go high-nothing is worse than a hungry pack horse! They never stop pulling at that rope…

Balance and a scale built into each hand is a gift if you have it. If you have two of anything one goes on each side. Make duffle bags equal each other, get the same kind of sleeping bag/kit for each of you so it all can go here and there. My husband is usually pretty close but it takes practice. Get a set of pack scales: http://www.outfitterssupply.com/Packers-Scale-20-100-lbs/productinfo/WPA212/ and a manty (one per pack horse) and start piling up your gear into two piles. Ideally they are equal in size and weight but life doesn’t always work that way. If you’ve backpacked you’re familiar with the theme-where do you want to “spend” the weight and how, balance balance balance. Don’t get too much on the horse’s shoulders or loin, make your pack horse super comfortable b/c he’s a PITA to repack. Think about how things sit on that horse, you can be high and heavy on one side and low and light on the other and it will still balance if you’re good. My husband packed out a moose head and cape once-had to balance it just right on the tree of the saddle-not an easy trick. Get a decker pack saddle-they’re by and large the best. Sawbucks work but fit and function aren’t as forgiving. Get a packhorse pad-they’re longer on the sides and protect from the saddle and all that rope. We use diamond wool pack horse pads…

Unless you’re a knot maestro you probably want to just load panniers and tie them on. Slinging loads is tricky but read up on it. The higher you pack a horse the more unstable it generally gets. The lower you pack them the sore-er they can get, you want just below the widest part of the barrel generally…That top pack starts to move and shift and if you aren’t on top of your game it will start to throw everything off.

I have a youtube of my husband explaining how to tie on the diamond hitch if you want to see it. It’s the easiest hitch in the world if you’re tall enough to see the top of the packs-there’s one tricky twist in it but otherwise easy to follow. I am short so I like a box hitch-you put it on from the sides.

If you have good horses they will be good pack horses pretty easily. They have to adjust to not being able to see behind them much, being ponied largely on their own recognizance, feeling that pack brush against trees, and the pack cinch that tightens in the middle, not at the girth. And the big tarp-like manty that gets tucked all around the load. Most steady horses take right to it, no problems. Make sure to support the offside pack while you tighten the hitch and load up the panniers to keep everything balanced while you load. It’s a good job for colts too-they learn how to pack weight and despook in good steady company. We try to pack most of our colts before we ride them. Pack in, ride out. :yes:

We take an electric fencer, fence some in and turn the codependents loose. A wrangler horse is always (in theory) contained securely. You want to be able to catch your loose horses if that happens and you want a tattletale to scream and wake you up when the rest leave. :lol:

Many many details, stories I could tell, pitfalls to avoid, helpful hints. But as any old fart packer will tell you-learning it is part of the game. You really have to do it, feel it, find your own tricks and what works for your horses and what knots you know and what rope you like the feel of when you tie on.

I could go on forever-you go read some, start framing it out and come back to rediscuss. If you want to talk to someone about it all my husband loves to go on about pack trips, it’s the same sort of addiction disease that horses are… he grew up doing it and now he’s taught our kids…there’s nothing like it. highly recommend.

I imagine Beverly and a few others will be along soon, too, there’s a few of us here…

I have a bajillion pictures of my family (the kids from ages 5 to now 15 have been on lots of pack trips) on pack trips if you want to see, let me know, they’re on my facebook…

A few years ago-the first two horses were part Spanish Barbs, full sisters… excellent tough mares but meaner than crap for kicking in the string. not what you’re looking for in a pack trip horse! http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y251/steele4/familystring.jpg The kids are a lot older now-they are leading pack horses now instead of prancing along in the string! :lol:

Heading over a ridge with some good horses and better friends. :yes: http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y251/steele4/8exppass.jpg

By all means-if you want to ask questions, compare thoughts, BS, or tell some good wreck stories PM me for a phone number-it’s part of the deal!

ETA-Aw thanks Kat, seeing that picture of those sweet brown ears always makes me tear up. That good horse died of cancer a few years after that first trip with our new southern family-friends. Good times, gotta have wreck stories and lost stories and fun stories, it’s all part of it. I sure miss some of those horses and places but I miss you and Drake the most!

LOL start 'em young. this is the son of a professional outfitter :wink:
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b6d600b3127ccecebfc053d2df00000010O08AZN2TRm4Ytwe3nwA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

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day trip, coming back from the Hilgard? We packed Taco and called him the Lunchbox.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b8d711b3127ccec56962de1a8e00000040O08AZN2TRm4Ytwe3nwA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

Mrs. High Plains Drifter :slight_smile:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/31281399@N06/3833659682/

all business
http://www.flickr.com/photos/31281399@N06/3832005919/

all party.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/31281399@N06/3832003571/

The Bob Marshall.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/31281399@N06/4877546203/

life is good, it’s been a treat to roll through six years of pack trip photos!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31281399@N06/4876558785/

I will see you next Summer, God willin’ and the creek don’t rise :wink:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31281399@N06/3834559458/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31281399@N06/4876951116/

Cowboy mom those are some awesome pics! I am so jealous you get to pack some often!! I would LOVE to go regularly!! you sound like a GREAT person to pack with!

Fun having the Bob in the backyard, my farrier gets an elk out of there every year (Benchmark, I think)-I head to Dillon, or, in past years, Gardiner!

Here’s one of my husband and I a few years back! Not our horses (I wish!) but so much fun!!

[

Here it is!!

Wow! What amazing pics! Both of you thanks! You all have been super! I am stoked now! We CAN do this! I WISH I lived out west where there is so much more wilderness. Here in the East it’s harder and harder to find places to ride more than 5 miles out and back much less days into the Backcountry.

Thanks again for all the resources. I’ll check them all out! Great tips on the packing too…makes sense to balance it and yes, packing it like I do my own pack makes a lot of sense. My perlino dun mare might be a good pack mare. She’ll follow very well… she’s better behind a lead horse, and she’s pretty steady. I have a four year old recently gelded colt I’m training to be a trail horse now (and hopefully endurance later) that I’ll probably ride next year and my husband on his sensible bold gelding.

Interesting too on packing young horses in first. We have a couple of nice young geldings or fillies that will be started next Spring and that might be a good job also for them.

[QUOTE=l![](litiger2;6378208]
[IMG]http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z356/lilitiger2/calvinatranch055.jpg)

Here it is!![/QUOTE]

Great pic! Amazing scenery! :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=Daydream Believer;6378233]
Wow! What amazing pics! Both of you thanks! You all have been super! I am stoked now! We CAN do this! I WISH I lived out west where there is so much more wilderness. Here in the East it’s harder and harder to find places to ride more than 5 miles out and back much less days into the Backcountry.

Thanks again for all the resources. I’ll check them all out! Great tips on the packing too…makes sense to balance it and yes, packing it like I do my own pack makes a lot of sense. My perlino dun mare might be a good pack mare. She’ll follow very well… she’s better behind a lead horse, and she’s pretty steady. I have a four year old recently gelded colt I’m training to be a trail horse now (and hopefully endurance later) that I’ll probably ride next year and my husband on his sensible bold gelding.

Interesting too on packing young horses in first. We have a couple of nice young geldings or fillies that will be started next Spring and that might be a good job also for them.[/QUOTE]

James Clark at Deep Creek Horse Camp is a good,really good, resource for you. He is in Bryson City, NC, retired from the NPS and his family has been in the area since the early 1800s, I think he said. He does some pack trips, and knows the area. He may be able to assist you. Maybe go do some camping there and pick his brain. Nicest person on the planet.

http://deepcreekhorsecamp.com/

[QUOTE=l![](litiger2;6378208]
[IMG]http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z356/lilitiger2/calvinatranch055.jpg)

Here it is!![/QUOTE]

that’s a great picture!

Daydream, you’ll do great, it just takes common and horse sense and a sense of adventure! It’s really an amazing experience, nothing brings you closer to your horses or your fellow travelers faster! (for better or for worse) :lol:

Now I’m homesick for the mountains and my friends… Kat’s a great resource for you, she knows your area and she’s been on the business end of a pack trip!

[QUOTE=cowboymom;6378276]
Daydream, you’ll do great, it just takes common and horse sense and a sense of adventure! It’s really an amazing experience, nothing brings you closer to your horses or your fellow travelers faster! (for better or for worse) :lol:

Now I’m homesick for the mountains and my friends… Kat’s a great resource for you, she knows your area and she’s been on the business end of a pack trip![/QUOTE]

Soon- not soon enough- my summer has officially exploded with work- but soon.

[QUOTE=katarine;6378254]
James Clark at Deep Creek Horse Camp is a good,really good, resource for you. He is in Bryson City, NC, retired from the NPS and his family has been in the area since the early 1800s, I think he said. He does some pack trips, and knows the area. He may be able to assist you. Maybe go do some camping there and pick his brain. Nicest person on the planet.

http://deepcreekhorsecamp.com/[/QUOTE]

Yes! That is one of the horse camps on my map! It’s the most southern one. Lucy Lowe’s camp is Big Creek and she’s up towards where the AT crosses at Davenport Gap. I’ve been to her camp as I said earlier…she let me park my horse trailer there while I hiked last Fall. Between the two of them, we ought to be SET!

I may have to put him on my rides list for this Fall! Great idea! Thanks for pointing him out!

[QUOTE=cowboymom;6378276]
Daydream, you’ll do great, it just takes common and horse sense and a sense of adventure! It’s really an amazing experience, nothing brings you closer to your horses or your fellow travelers faster! (for better or for worse) :lol:

Now I’m homesick for the mountains and my friends… Kat’s a great resource for you, she knows your area and she’s been on the business end of a pack trip![/QUOTE]

Thanks Cowboymom! I’m really excited now! I appreciate the help from all of you and knowing Kat who knows this area also is a bonus I did not expect! :smiley:

I miss the mountains too. It’s flat as a pancake here in Suffolk. I grew up in the Allegheny’s of SW PA and when I first left the area as a young woman, it felt like something was missing on the horizon for a long time. I am going for a two day backpacking trip at the end of the month to get some soul rejuvenation time. I NEED that…and the only way I can get a break is to get away like that.

It will be very cool to be able to pack out with the horses and my husband (who hates to backpack) also. We both enjoy riding a lot and this he can do also.

Books are a good start…but nothing beats learning by doing.

My advice? Practice at home on familiar trails before hitting new trails. Pack to a friend’s house and spend the night. You’ll work out any problems with equipment, feed, highlining, balancing packs, etc. before you end up hanging off the side of a hill.

My Unit of Backcountry Horsemen holds packing clinics and “newby” pack trips every year to teach people how to pack. There are rules about overnighting with stock specific to the area you are going that you might need to become familiar with too.

You might try looking up a unit near you:

http://www.backcountryhorse.com/Member_Organizations.html

I used to backpack a lot too, but I’ll never backpack again–not after packing with my horses. You’ll have a blast, I’m sure.