Hey, SLC, whatever happend to you shift key? No capitals is distracting when trying to read your posts.
Now, has anyone here ever ridden with Thoas Ritter? And if so what was your experience like?
Boogey on dudes
two actual accounts!
…just noting that lwmc and mona’s stories are polar opposites. One trained with him for a year and one had audited one experience with him. I don’t believe or disbelieve either one - but hearing both arguments one can better decide if they wish to audit this particular clinician.
I’d have to see him for myself. Would I drive 7 hours to audit him, no. Four hours is my max for an audit anyway. Maybe I’d drive an hour to see him.
FWIW, mona’s post was negative BUT informative. It was her observation, Thanks for sharing! 
Advertising isn’t allowed on these sites. You can pose a question, but don’t try to hide a blantant bit of advertising behind that guise. It insults the intelligence of those who share information out here. We aren’t naive.
[This message has been edited by Velvet (edited 11-17-2000).]
on another bb we have a convention that only positive comments are posted on the bb and that seems to work out well. negative comments are kept to private email.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gwynne:
But I do not think this board is the proper place to discuss religion, faith, etc. There are places online to discuss these issues.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Okay, I’m going to ask why not? I mean, if people are crabby and it’s due to the stress of holidays, that are religiously based, and we are discussing that topic, why is this the wrong place? Would it be wrong if I was discussing showing with a 7th Day Adventist and they wanted to talk about having shows start on Sundays so they didn’t miss riding? Or how about not riding on holy days…whatever those might be?
I’m not flaming out on you, Gwynne, I’m just asking why some of it can’t be discussed out here a bit and why it has to move to a special board. We horseback riders aren’t known as the most “PC” people in the world anyway (thank goodness). As long as we aren’t slamming someone or putting them down (I have friends who like to call themselves “tree huggers” and “witches” and I don’t put them down) why can’t we talk about these things in the context we already were?
Guess I don’t see a problem with it…and I don’t think the CoH does unless we do get inflammatory, derogatory or only discuss those issues and not in an relative way to a string.
JMHO
what i had to say was very negative, and has nothing to do with humor, style or approach, and i won’t post it here.
no one has emailed me or shown any interest in the comment, so i must conclude that no one is interested, and the religion posts are just meanders.
After reading various responses on this post, I am once again reminded of why I rarely venture over here… 
Horse chick, you might want to post your question on the h/j forum. The dressage riders that frequent that forum might actually give you some useful information about Thomas Ritter, rather than just copping a major attitude!
[This message was edited by dublin on Dec. 20, 2000 at 01:16 PM.]
[This message was edited by dublin on Dec. 20, 2000 at 01:17 PM.]
i missed my german lessons, LOL. i’m searching for a german word that covers what mona described, but i can’t think of what it is. that’s the word for a ghostly double.
without accusing mr ritter of training his horses incorrectly on this forum, which is not what this forum is for, i will make some general comments on correct training of dressage horses that others might consider when evaluating trainers and judging their success. the following discussion will be very general, and many important points won’t be covered due to lack of space and my time. but it is a starting point from which to take off and learn.
the training of the dressage horse is aimed at producing a horse that fulfills the basic requirements of dressage, while maintaining a relaxed, rounded outline in a position of the head and neck that is in keeping with his conformation and level of training. there is much misunderstanding about what the basics are, and that causes many people great difficulty - for example, dressage isn’t about riding with the reins hanging down - some contact is needed, and this is refined and developed over time. nor is it about performing movements quickly without a long underpinning of traditional exercises that slowly develop the muscles and mentality of the horse, thereby avoiding physical and mental stress to the animal. nor is it about performing movements in whatever fashion, there is a very detailed, highly formalized definition for how each movement must be done. there is much misunderstanding about this, for example, understanding the difference between engagement and tracking up, or knowing that engagement includes bringing the hind legs in toward the midline of the body, not encouraging a wider stance behind or allowing one leg to land farther outside the body.
signs of relaxation, and this is muscle relaxation, not mental relaxation (which is related but not judgeable strictly by appearance), signs are the mouth closed, the tail relatively still, the action not stilted, sewing machine like or cramped, and the hind legs swinging forward to the correct distance as stipulated by the definition of the exercise being done (more isn’t always better - in actual collected movements, less forward swing of the hind leg is defined). signs that are much more difficult to judge are related to the horse allowing the aids of the rider to pass unencumbered through the body and influence the body, all parts of the body, often referred to in english as ‘‘throughness’’. look for tension and lack of letting go in specific muscles, and the inability to make contact with the bit without opening the mouth to show the aids cannot go through the body.
in particular, look at how the hind legs are lifted, if they are twisted, bent only at the hocks (at least it looks this way as the hind legs are out behind the body - it gives the appearance of the hocks being tied together, and only them flexing), or not brought forward. one of the most telling tests is the amount of forward swing you want to see the hind legs make in the medium and extended trot - if the horse is incorrectly trained, he may show extravagant action in the front legs, but the hind legs may not track into the prints of the forelegs at these movements.
you want to see the hind legs doing the same thing as the front legs in dressage. this is fundamental and hard for people to learn to detect. it doesn’t mean the fore and hind legs are always perfectly parallel, as some horses, when perfectly ridden, can show a beautiful gesture with the foreleg. the key is can you tell when this is due to talent, and when it is due to the ‘‘all the generals out in front and no soldiers bringing up the rear’’. these two are hard to tell apart and can deceive the best of horsemen and horsewomen - the best clue is again to take the eye off the front of the horse and look at the back end! it is also hard to tell ‘‘dynamic advanced placement’’, when a hind foot strikes the ground in trot infinitesimally before the foreleg - something only detected in videos. it is very, very easy to mistake this for a hind leg that simply isn’t coming through and is dropping to the ground early with no flexion or energy.
again, the only remedy to developing the eye for a good dressage training is time, thought and a great deal of effort and help in person from a person with a much better eye who can pass this along to you.
I had not spent money, time or gone thru the usual preparations of hauling to clinic with him. After 2.5 rides, it was all over for me. I know dressage when I see it. I know borderline training when I see it. This guy was off the scale (and NOT in the positive).
I wasn’t there, so I can’t verify what was said or done. I have seen trainers do exactly as Mona describes, so it is believable.
The horse’s owner sounds as bad (if not worse) than the trainer. Why was she taking a less than sound horse to a clinic anyway? Mr. Ritter should have noticed the hike, and refused to train the pair.
Any owner that would let a horse stand on ties for an hour is disgusting. I’ll bet this owner didn’t even cool down the horse properly afterwards.
It wasn’t my intention to advertise but merely to say the clinic was full, and in fact I was told it was full before the time stamp on horse chick’s message. Sorry to have insulted your intelligence.
Thanks so very much for pointing that out, slc.
- We aren’t on That Other Board, are we?
- I didn’t ask for negative comments, but merely your perspective. Does your response mean you have no input on T. Ritter except for bashing?
- You have my e-mail address, and could have said something privately, instead of coming across as though you were imparting some special wisdom.
soooo…let’s relate it to horses.
for example, i’ve found my horse is VERY bothered by the commercialization of christmas.
he gets totally stressed out at the mall, and his feet slip on the tile floors there. he can’t manage all the shopping bags in his teeth, he always has trouble with his visa card (GALLOPING inflation, i suppose) and runs out of money (he gets a small allowance after all) before he gets gifts for everyone he loves.
he loves everyone.
The original question was posted so I could get some feedback about Thomas Ritter. Did I really get any useful information? NO. Instead, I have to sift through posts about how the real meaning of Christmas has been lost. I enjoy the holidays but this isn’t the place to discuss them.
Perhaps this BB needs a forum for “chatty posts” so the rest of us don’t have to read posts that have nothing to do with horses & training. After all this is a Dressage forum & one expects to read
about DRESSAGE!
I think that this topic has been picked at to death!! For pity’s sake, move on. If you want to discuss something, then post a topic and see what develops. You all know the rules, it is really not that tough to stay within them.
Let me see if I can dig them up again, just to refresh everybody’s minds.
“dynamic advanced placement”
I think SLC is referring to DAP, diagonal advance placement. Anyway, I can’t remember the German words either, but one refers to the horse that is a back mover (good) and the other that refers to a leg mover (not good).
Off the scale in what way? What was he doing?
Boogey on dudes
Are you sure that we are talking about the same guy? Maybe he had a really bad day - maybe you had a really bad day - maybe the stars were lined up wrong - I have no idea - but the guy I rode with - and saw every day for a year and a half sounds like a totally different person.
Rescuemom,
I think it is horse chick, not you, that is being accused of advertising.
Oh please! Have pity on your poor, exhausted moderator, who’s bosses have suddenly realized that it is the last month of the year and they had better get everything shipped that they possibly can and on the books.
Let’s not get into any disagreements about TOB. 'Tis the season of good cheer!
Thanks 
