My guy is currently on Purina Ultium. He does well on it, and I like the energy it give him - but we aren’t jumping on the circuit right now, and I feel like it makes him a bit spooky. Not really bad, but definitely more spooky than normal. I’m considering taking him off of grain,and switching to a ration balancer. I will still keep him on the Equine Omega Complete for his omega and fat needs. Looking at Pro-Elite Grass Balancer or the Triple Crown Ration Balancer. Anyone have any experience doing this? Good or bad?
If he’s maintaining his weight well on the Ultium, consider what the calorie change will be. Calculate how many calories he’s eating per day of Ultium, and how many calories he will get from the recommended daily amount of ration balancer. Since ration balancers are more nutrition-dense, you can’t just up the quantity if you think he’s getting a bit skinny. Check the label - there is usually a small feeding range - like .5 to 2 pounds per day. You’ll need to add another calorie source if you need more calories than the top of the range provides.
I’ve done it several times for horses who were not eating enough regular grain to meet the recommended daily minimum - and thus needed a vitamin/mineral supplement. It simplifies things to be able to feed them just the ration balancer.
For the harder keepers, it just complicated things. We switched them back.
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“Has anyone switched to a ration balancer over a complete feed and NOT liked it?”
My horse.
Was thoroughly disgusted with Triple Crown 30, and would not touch it (a sign of his sophisticated palate, as TC 30 smells and presumably tastes like cardboard). He is happier with Vermont Blend from Custom Equine Nutrition, which smells like over-fermented butterscotch, but, whatever. Combined with his Cosequin powder, which I find smells like rotten lillies, it makes for an interesting smell in the car.
But, it’s not about me; it’s about my horse, and all I ever wanted was for him to be happy, and never want for anything, and have his mani-pedi and his massages and his chiro and his fine European accessories and his organic treats even when his mother goes without in order to give to him, and she lives only for his happiness and sacrifices every day in order to give him the best and treat him like a prince because of course he is and all his teachers and the other horses should know this…
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TC 30 really did used to smell and apparently taste like cardboard LOL Since they added the ButiPearl last Summer, that changed, due to the peppermint oil. That said, any feed, balancer or not, has a set of horses who hate it.
It’s a little unfair to ask about a straight switch from a regular feed to a balancer. They aren’t an apples to apples comparison.
As stated, it’s a significant to VERY significant calorie reduction.
For your specific situation, we’d need to know how many pounds of Ultium you’re feeding. Anyone can feed lots of calories on top of the proper feeding of a balancer, and then it becomes about cost and convenience, and at some point how much volume a horse is willing to eat.
The same question could be asked in reverse - did anyone not like changing from a balancer to a regular feed? The answer will always be yes, for a variety of reasons - too many calories, horse didn’t like it, or they changed brands altogether to one with a nutrient profile not well-suited to their forage, etc.
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Yes, unless your horse is spooky because he’s just plain getting too many calories and has the chonk to show for it and you are feeling him a pretty small amount of grain already… a ration balancer seems unlikely to solve that problem.
Balancers are great (as JB said) to provide a balanced diet to horses who need reduced calories, meaning once you find yourself feeding less than the recommended minimum of a non ration balancer feed to keep a healthy weight, or maybe you are replacing grain with more hay or pasture but still need to meet protein requirements for performance, the balancer it’s going to solve that problem.
But an energetic horse at a healthy weight who needs 5+ lbs (roughly) of a high quality grain to maintain weight is probably not going to have that problem solved by a balancer.
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Part of why I want to switch is because he’s only on 2 1/2 lbs of the Ultium per day. Which really doesn’t give him enough of the vitamins and minerals for his activity level. He’s an easy keeper - he currently gets 5 flakes of a good quality coastal, 1 large flake of alfalfa and about 1/2 lb. of small alfalfa pellets (his nighttime snack). Plus his Supersport, Outlast, chia seeds, joint supplement & the Equine Omega Complete. (It’s all in a spreadsheet! LOL!). I’m trying to bring down the NSC in his diet. Ultium is 16%. Pro-Elite is 13% and TC is the lowest at 9.8%.
Thanks. You’re right, 2.5lb is under-feeding by probably half. And, Ultium has corn, so this may be a lot more about getting corn out of the diet, than it is about going from a fortified feed (Ultium isn’t a complete feed, it is not meant to be a sole ration for horses on little to no forage)
I definitely think moving to a ration balancer is a good idea. You can always increase his alf pellets to 1-2lb if he needs just a little calorie boost.
TC 30 is a superior balancer to the other 2, IMO. ProElite is a fairly close 2nd.
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My horse also agrees, but tough luck for him. I’m a TC devotee & he was on Complete for years & was a hard keeper when in work. I was initially worried about switching to a balancer, just because I’d managed him as a hard keeper for years & years. But he’s retired now, doesn’t need those calories any more, & I’d been able to cut the Complete back to where he wasn’t getting the full nutrient profile, so I took the plunge.
He’s on TC30 now & doing wonderfully on it, even better than he was on the “small amount of Complete + vit/min supplement.” He did find it pretty unappetizing for a while, but since he was convinced I was trying to starve him to death, he ate it anyway (so it can’t be that horrible because he is pretty picky). I also throw in a handful of Complete still since I have another horse still on that, just to add some flavour.
And since @JB mentioned it, I did notice he seemed to be less unenthusiastic about it late last year, I didn’t realize they’d added that stuff, that makes more sense now.
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And depending on your general area, and your store’s turnover, it could have definitely taken several months for you to get the new formula. I think the addition was in July, but I know I didn’t get a bag until maybe October.
Yes, and for the second time I’m not thrilled. In both cases the calorie reduction was needed (stall rest for first horse, new horse is more of an easy keeper once I got weight back on him after he lost a bunch in travel). While the weight is good, I’m not/was not happy with their coats especially. Even with some supplemental fat/omegas to make up for lack of fat in the RB. I’ve used both the Progressive and TC.
For first horse, I wound up just feeding a small amount of grain and supplementing with v/m and anything else as needed (aminos for a time, vitamin E, flax oil, magnesium). I was in part treating him like he had a muscle disorder (MFM, PSSM type 2) with the diet, but eventually I dropped most of the extras except the combo v/m with gut supplement. He ate a lot of forage.
New horse is not the growing teenager type and doesn’t need as much overall. But in harder work I thought he’d benefit from the RB. He had been shedding out nicely until I finished transitioning to the RB, and I just don’t like how he looks. He’s quiet natured so that hasn’t changed. I also had put him on magnesium and the same v/m supplement. I’m afraid to add oil or something to this horse and turn him into a blimp. I think as I use up this RB I’ll just go to a small portion of the grain I was feeding (TC Complete – had tried him on TC Senior to gain weight and it made him gassy) with the supplements.
One thing I don’t like about the RBs is the amount of soy. I was considering trying the new TC Gold RB, which I think my local dealers will be able to get. But now I’m not so sure.
If you are only feeding 2.5 lbs of Ultium a day, even though it’s not as low NSC, what really matters is the NSC of the total diet. 2.5lbs out of the total diet, including forage, is not going to have a huge impact whether it’s a higher NSC grain or 2 lbs of a lower NSC RB. My previous horse ate maybe 3 or so lbs of the Complete, which is a higher NSC feed (I think close to 20%) after the RB didn’t work and he quit eating Senior. But he ate 2-3 flakes of alfalfa and I think 6 or 7 flakes of mixed grass hay at his lightest amount of food per day (big horse). And beet pulp. I was more concerned about the NSC of his grass hay.
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That’s a significant calorie change. If you like Purina I would switch to Healthy Edge or Impact Professional Performance. They provide calories and vitamins without being so high octane. The impact is lower NSC, low starch, and corn free.
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I absolutely agree. I think it’s the corn that is the issue, because the NSC is lower on the Ultium than most feeds. It’s also more calorie dense too. I’m definitely trying to get the corn out of his diet completely. I had contemplated switching to a different feed but a friend recommended a ration balancer. Open to other ideas! Seems like it may be the best way to get him what he needs without a ton of extra calories?
I put mine on a RB for the warmer months when they have grass. I usually use the TC30, I really like TC products and they are also on the senior. This year, in an effort to save a little money, I got Buckeye Gro N Win, as I know several people who feed it and like it a lot. I am only about halfway through the bag so it’s too early to notice any physical changes, but I will say it seems a little bit gross. Both of my horses get their feed soaked and the GNW gets kind of weird when it’s wet. I didn’t notice anything too weird about the TC 30 but the GNW gets clumpy and kind of icky. They both also get about 2lbs of senior with the GNW and also flax meal so with everything else, they eat it up no problem, but I’m thinking I’ll switch back to the TC30. I tried other Buckeye complete feeds last year and they also got a little gross when wet, Not sure if that is a consideration for you … otherwise I am typically very pleased with my horses summer diet, which is usually 1-2 lbs of TC Senior, 1.25lbs TC 30, flax meal, and previcox They are turned out on decent grass for about 16 hours and get a flake of alfalfa and a haynet of orchard mix in the stall.
@firefoot I am surprised you are having quality issues with the GNW. I wonder if quality control has sacrificed as the product has been distributed more widely? I fed GNW for years and years, and even through company/formulation changes, the quality stayed exceptional. Palatability has always been top notch, at least by my horses’ vote.
The only reason I stopped feeding it is because I didn’t always have a consistent supplier. But it seems like more major retailers have started carrying it over the past few years, whereas in the past it seemed like independent stores and distributors were the only sources.
I have been feeding TC30 for the past 3 years out of convenience. My local Southern States carries it and I’m already there dropping half my disposable income on TC Senior for my geriatric horses; no need to complicate my life going to another feed store for another product.
But no one loves the TC30. The donkeys don’t even clean up their handfuls. I didn’t seem any improvements in palatability when they supposedly added the Butipearl (I’m still questioning if this is happening in my locale as the bags don’t mention it even though they are dated recently).
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not bashing the product or questioning your experience. TC30 is fine, everyone does fine despite not loving the taste. I don’t really know why I’m rambling on about this except to point out that experiences can really vary!
Try the Impact Professional Performance. I switched to that off strategy because of the lower NSC, low starch, no corn and I’ve been happy. It provides enough to hold weight without adding heat.
It’s not listed as ButiPearl, it’s listed much more usefully as the ingredients:
Butyric Acid, Zinc Oxide, Peppermint Essential Oil,
When my horse goes on hunger strike, GnW is the one thing I can get him to eat if I take all the other additives out of his meal. I think it smells like candy.
I did soak it for my young horse for a while - You either have to do a sprinkle of water, soak the other feed and toss the GnW on last, or add a ton of water to make it a soup. It turns into a clumpy mush if there’s not enough water. But even like that, it seemed very palatable for the young horse and he happily ate it.
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I agree with everyone saying not all their horses love the TC30 taste. I love the nutritional composition of it but my senior pony seemed less than thrilled with the taste when he got that alone. Because he struggled a bit to keep weight on with the TC30, but got too fat when he received full portions of any other feed, he now gets a bit of TC Senior mixed in which has greatly improved his attitude towards the TC30.
Since going from Seminole Dynasport to TC30 I have not noticed an increase in spookiness from either my large pony or my ASB. Both have stayed about the same though their weights have dramatically improved. The pony no longer looks like a beach ball and the ASB has a much better coat condition.
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I honestly don’t know if it’s quality control issues? When the products are dry, they seem totally fine – smell nice, look good, etc. The Buckeye that I was feeding in the fall seemed really nice, like it “felt” fatty and not crumbly or dry, but one by one all four who were eating it decided they didn’t like it. Two ate it wet and two ate it dry and they all got tired of it. Plus it was a hassle to get from the Mill near me. I wish they liked it because it is so much cheaper than the TCS.
For the ones who ate it wet, I made it into soup and it still turned super mushy and gross. The GNW does the same sort of thing – no matter how much water I add or how much I stir, once it’s all ready to be eaten, the GNW turns to mush and sticks to the bottom of the bucket. Naturally both of my horses are chokers (facepalm) so I can’t just dampen it, it has to be really wet. So far, they don’t seem to care, but I worry that they eventually will.
The TC 30 seems a bit nicer when it’s wet, at least not clumpy and mushy. I couldn’t say if it tastes better, it certainly looks less appetizing than GNW, but they eat it very well and I like the nutritional profile. I totally agree with you, experiences can really vary! I wanted to love the Buckeye complete feeds I tried, especially after reading tons of great testimonials, but the horses (who really aren’t picky for being TBs) had other plans.
I had good luck with Purina enrich rb. When I needed a bit more calories I would add alfalfa pellets or a bit of Purina senior active (what my other horse eats). You might be able to stop with the supersport if you go to a rb.
ETA my horse that eats 6 lbs/day is on the senior active. I did try to feed him rb plus oats/alfalfa/flax and he just does better on the bagged feed.
