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Have You Ever Been Questioned About Why You Want to Cap?

Hunting
#41

[QUOTE=wanabe;4491477]
I sent an email about capping at another hunt, and received this response:

Dear Mr. xxxxx,

No, we do not have horses to rent.

As you are a member with xxxxxxx, you would need a letter from your Master there as a preamble to applying to cap in with xxx. Permission to cap in with xxx comes from the Master.

I can’t help but wonder why the Hunt you’re with does not satisfy you, especially as you are not involved enough to keep your own horse.

Thank you for your interest in xxxxxxx hunt.

All best,

xxxx xxxx xxx, MFH[/QUOTE]

“Cap in”?

CAP IN??? CAP IN!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Someone is getting their hunting terminology confused with the term used to describe what some staff members do: WHIP IN!

I have NEVER heard of “capping” referred to as “capping in”.

Beverley? Jessica? Anyone…?

And they’re an MFH?

#42

[QUOTE=Jennifer Alcott;4493091]
Jessica? [/QUOTE]

I’m afraid I got stuck on the word “preamble”. I think they meant “prelude”.

But hey - evidently everyone is so casual across the Mississippi I guess it doesn’t matter. :wink:

#43

CAP: As well as being the headgear of the huntsman, the Master, farmers and children, it is the term used for the sum paid by a visitor for one day’s hunting; or the smaller amount, a few shillings, paid by regular subscribers each time they come out hunting, usually in aid of the fund to take down wire nowadays.
CAPPING: When a fox is killed, it is the custom in some countries to cap for the huntsman; some man takes round a cap or glove, and men are expected to drop a half-crown into it. It also means, when a man takes off his hat or cap and waves it to bring on the hounds.

http://www.jorrocks.com/misc/1

#44

Um, well, I didn’t focus on that because, after all, the MFH is king of his/her domain- they can call it what they want, they can have formal attire as turquoise coats, whatever. And personally I wouldn’t care if the hounds provided good sport! Historically ‘capping’ refers to passing the secretary’s cap around to collect the relevant fees on the day, from guests, for hunt staff, whatever the occasion might call for.

My own personal pet peeve, having been both an HONORARY secretary- treasurer and HONORARY whipper-in, is getting referred to as ‘HONORABLE.’ Totally wrong (and yet I’ll bet you the beverage of your choice that you will encounter MFHs and Secretaries these days that think it’s totally right!).

That said, I have known current and former MFHs and secretaries that I’ve considered to be complete and total idiots. As a former secretary myself, maybe I am one- something along the lines of if one out of four people suffer from mental illness, and you have three friends who are decidedly not mentally ill, well, then, it could be you…

Equibrit- I guess we disagree, I don’t know how you might interpret it otherwise, but the statement ‘I am with xxxx hunt’ would be interpreted by me, on the receiving end, as an affiliation. If I had any doubts I’d call the hunt in question to check it out, just to see if there was a troublemaker afoot!

#45

Oh, I know of plenty of ‘casual’ western hunts- that allow newcomers in whatever they got, even if it’s jeans, so long as they have proper headgear and footgear, western saddles are okay for newbies too- but if you went and hunted with them, you’d marvel at how much better they are turned out on the whole than the average Virginia hunt!

Even snickering ranch hands are welcomed, and typically, after the first 5 or 6 mile run up and down mountain ridges, if they are still there, they aren’t snickering any more!

#46

In our hunt, Western saddles are welcome for anyone. In fact, one of our landowners (where we hold our Opening & Closing Hunts) always rides in a Western saddle.

We don’t jump anything except the occasional cactus or little arroyo, so what’s the problem?

<donning Western flame suit, complete with sparkly fringed shirt and jeans>

#47

Oh for pete’s sake, lighten up on wanabe. Has anyone bothered to read his profile? He’s only been riding for 4 years, which indicates he’s most likely not had the opportunity to absorb hunt etiquette by osmosis the way more experienced people have.

I agree that the response he received was rude, but the inquiry he sent could have been better phrased. I believe one or two people gave better examples for him to try.

#48

Here is what struck me…and yes, the initial response from the MFH seemed abrupt, but then I see the “original inquiry”

  1. The OP does not even own a horse, and wants the hunt to provide a "First Flight " horse for rent?
    Sorry, I’d say no, too.
    A phone call to the hon sec might have been more appropriate, and

2.if the OP had really been an active member long enough to ride “First Flight”, he or she could not possibly have escaped absorbing at least a bit of protocol, could they???I’m really wondering.

Or is there more to this? Did I miss something here? Is the OP wanting to go around to lots of hunts and rent a horse to ride "first flight?’ without having owned a hunt horse? It’s one thing to visit other hunts via a joint meet, or invitation from an established member, via permission from a MFH, but I would feel something were strange here, too, with someone just asking to come to “cap” and rent a horse.

#49

Sadly, the OP’s request, while honest, was horrendously worded/phrased. Really …horrendous. Custom made for the type of response he got back.

Can’t undo the past, but… in the future the OP (or any newbie visiting this board to find out how to contact a hunt) should call (Hunt Secretary or Master), rather than write so he/they could explain their prior experience in hunting, and ask how he/they might go about receiving permission to cap. One should also remember to ask the Hunt Secretary, NOT the Master, of any local establishments that lease field hunters. The discussion of 1st flight horses should only be with the leasing establishment in procuring a suitable mount, again NOT the Master or Hunt staff.

In his email the OP wrote he was “with” a hunt – that doesn’t automatically imply membership. Saying he was currently capping with, or a subscribing member – if that is indeed the case – would have made it clear as to his relationship with his current hunt. For all anyone knows, the OP could merely be the person who sets up the Hunt Breakfast table – that certainly falls under the umbrella of being “with the hunt”.

I hope the OP has since called the Master, apologized for the vague email, introduced himself more completely, and endeavored to get himself back on better footing so that he does get an invite. I’m sure the Master would appreciate the courtesy of that kind of follow-up, especially in learning that the OP genuinely loves and wants to hunt and isn’t some kook on the internet who is clueless of the sport.

#50

First, let me say that the MASTER was the name given to contact, on that hunt’s website.

Second, I said “first flight horse” as short hand for “I will be riding first flight, and I would like a horse that is suitable for that”. I wish I had used the longer praseology, or not even brought it up in the initial communication.

I HAVE taken note of the examples given and will use them in the future.

Neither my hunt’s secretary OR master are aware of any such tradition requiring master-to-master contact. So, how was I to absorb that?

Finally, yes I did re-contact and apologize for breaking some rule of etiquette, and said I would have my master contact her and spent several sentences giving my background.

Although she was polite, she implied that I lacked experience, and needed to purchase a horse and trailer (and truck), also that, and I quote:

“Those who are busy day in and day out making the Hunt and the hunting don’t always take kindly to hearing about your adventures on the road. It is almost always novices who want to hunt around, or those veterans who aren’t entirely welcome anywhere.”

Regarding email vs phone contact. I may not know all the rules of hunting etiquette, but I think I am qualified to say that an email contact is much preferable to phone, when contacting someone initially.

Finally, the hunt secretary is not listed on the website as a contact. The master is given as a contact, first on the list, and her email is provided. Why wouldn’t I use it?

#51

wow. That’s unreal. I know many, many foxhunters, both novices who are trying to learn and veterans who enjoy going visiting that love to visit other hunts.
I guess they must not have many visitors, but I can see why.

#52

OK my turn!

I disagree with some posters but nobody has mentioned the possibility that there are some hunt politics or bad feelings between the OPs hunt and the neighboring hunt. Boy it sure happens in our area for sure with a lotta hunts close together! Hence cappers from the neighboring hunt are kinda unwelcome sometimes. And…I’ve experienced this w/JS’s own hunt back in the day even so(btw, I bear them no ill will; it was certain people speaking for the hunt at the time)…yes…there ARE snobby/elitist MFHs & hunt clubs. It tends to be with privately owned hunts/MFHs IMHO. Subscription packs are hungrier for the money a lotta times. Hunts can be catty or consider themselves “too exclusive” to have novices hunt w/them. Some look down on hilltopper cappers/members because they aren’t perceived to be up to snuff or “real” hunters etc. I had a sec’y tell me once that I had to be able to jump a 4ft jump to hunt w/them!! Some hunts crank up their cap fees to weed out the novice/casual hunters. They don’t WANT to deal w/novices. Many hunts just have limited land and want to keep their fields small so only serious/super riders need apply!

So I say phooey on them! I’m not gonna pay $$ to anyone who doesn’t deserve my presence!!! :winkgrin: It’s all supposed to be FUN!!! :yes:. Some MFHs are better at setting you up for fun than others. Some are just plain full of themselves. Looks like one here. Just forgetaboutit! i HATE snobby hunts…why do you think I’m the Honorable Secy :cool::winkgrin: of the fictitious Snobbington Hunt!!! To make fun of and be humorous about some of our hunting excentricities. Not humour-less!!!

And the rent-a-horse question as A-OK to me. Livery availability is a perfectly legitimate question for a traveling in capper. There’s always SOMEONE in the hunt w/an extra horse. Many, many hunts have members w/livery available. I know of 2 MFH’S in Va. that run them themselves as their "real"jobs.

So I vote, ease up on OP, I share his angst. Just go elsewhere. Ya’ll can come up here anytime!!!

#53

I wanna be a member of the Snobbington Hunt! (BTW, I’ve heard you mention this hunt before and thought it was real. :lol: )

#54

do a search!

For a good laugh and lotsa tongue in cheek humour…search threads or words with Snobbington Hunt in it. Get some coffee and a napkin and enjoy! Somewhere here is my party wagon person and we took nominees for mastership as I recall…and huntsman and our attire preferences!!
:D:lol::lol::lol:
A sense of humor is the FIRST requirement for membership & capping.
Happy hunting wannabe!

#55

Wow.

I have to agree with others who said your first contact was a bit clunky - around here the hunts are quite formal, anyway, and I would have done what others suggested in terms of phone calls and a bit of groveling, etc.

But the follow up seems to indicate you happen to have stumbled upon a very unwelcoming hunt, so I would just let it go and find another.

I capped with a hunt here a couple times, at the invitation of a friend (first time ever hunting, too) and expected it to be snooty, but although it was very formal people were very helpful and welcoming.

#56

[QUOTE=JSwan;4493038]
And I also don’t want to catch wind of any infighting. QUOTE]

Trouble is, YOU are the one that I see doing all the fighting here; & very much in public at that!

#57

Okay, well, now I have attire envy. I don’t have a sparkly fringed shirt. However, I DID wear jeans and a pearl-button snap shirt the last time I hunted. In Virginia. Long story, suffice to say that attire dispensations from Masters are good things (and invariably granted by Real Foxhuntin’ Folks).

But you are right- western saddles are often welcome ‘forever’ - even back east in a few cases I’m aware of.

#58

I agree, could be bad blood between hunts. At one hunt where I was a member for several years, they were very careful about members of the neighboring hunt who suddenly wanted to hunt with “Us” (and there was somewhat of a hunt war between the two)
They felt that perhaps they were planning to poach onto “our” country. Or “Get the dirt”

I worked for one of the masters, conditioning and hunting horses for his family, and the neighboring hunt’s joint master called me to see if I’d come hunt with them, and was asking a lot of questions on the phone. I got the feeling she was wanting information beyond what I was up to these days. Since the horses I had for hunting belonged to my MFH, and my trailer would not have acommodated the size of any of them, and my own whip horse was by that time my event horse, I politely declined, but it sure made me wonder what the “inviting MFH” was up to, knowing who I worked for.

It certainly is a strange set of communications, that being said, let it go, and go where you’re welcome. But as others have said, if a member of a hunt is “shopping around”, it could mean a number of things to another hunt’s staff, including trouble between the member wanting to hunt elsewhere, and their hunt. There is enough drama in any hunt without adding any more to the mix.

I think that you are not going to be welcome there, so drop it with those folks. You can’t force these things, but you know that.

#59

Goodness, reading this thread I realize how I am fortunate to have only ever met nice, extraordinarily welcoming people that hunt. It has never been implied to me that I must own a horse or I am Therefore Not Serious - in fact, the first time I ever hunted, probably age 14, I was loaned a horse by a kind member of the hunt who made a small business of renting out seasoned, conditioned hunt horses. She was then generous enough to ride second flight with me and explain everything.

In fact, the kindness that members of various hunts have shown me is the very reason I’d like to hunt. If I’d received the sort of welcome the OP did, I’d undoubtedly not have bothered. Yes, perhaps it was not the most professionally phrased original email, perhaps it did breech etiquette, but I’m sure one could manage to respond without being so utterly condescending. One can weed out those who they do not wish to accommodate while still being polite.

Disregard if I’m confused, since I see a lot of the posts were edited.

#60

[QUOTE=ThisTooShallPass;4494480]

[QUOTE=JSwan;4493038]
Trouble is, YOU are the one that I see doing all the fighting here; & very much in public at that![/QUOTE]

Actually - in the past I’ve tried really hard to help educate newcomers to the sport - including explaining things like etiquette, ethics, attire, history, and customs. I’ve extended an open invitation for any COTH member to hunt with a footpack - as my guest. That means I PAY FOR YOU. You - a stranger to me. I vouch for you, am held responsible for your behavior, pay your cap and you hunt as my guest. And I’ve done my sincere best to help out the OP in the past.

In the end - these are private hunting clubs similar to those created to hunt other species. Mounted foxhunting has unique characteristics, but they are still entities that can make decisions about membership, attire, and rules that will differ a little from hunt to hunt.

It seems the OP got off on the wrong foot with this club, and vice versa. Except the OP chose to make the incident public. So much so that it may create ill will where none existed before. There may have been many reasons, good ones, that this hunt is cautious about mysterious emails - but chose unfortunate language in their response.

Any opportunity for the hunt to rectify the situation is probably lost - because the OP continues to reveal snippets of private correspondence - without the Master’s permission. I find that type of behavior repugnant.

Again - I’ll never excuse those who are intentionally rude and demeaning - I’ve been a victim of that and it’s a horrible feeling. We do all have a duty to try and be good ambassadors for our sport.

On the other hand - the Masters have a lot of people to keep happy. Landowners, members, their Board. We all know that one incident or accident can put an entire fixture off limits - forever.

There is also such a thing as a bad guest. Or a person that likes to travel around and use hunts - abusing their generosity. With no intention of contributing to the sport - only taking from it. I’m not referring to newcomers or those interested in learning.

Those people don’t exactly have a sign on their forehead announcing their intentions. A club should try and balance their desire to welcome guests - with their responsibility to members and landowners.

Again - speaking as someone who does open her land to sportsmen - I want leaders who will keep bad sportsmen out. If you disagree that a landowner has that right - you will be in a very small minority, I’m afraid.

I have no intention of disparaging “western” style riders and I don’t think any club is superior or inferior to the other. They’re just hunting clubs.

Whether this one is a “nice” club I don’t know. I’ll find out for myself rather than rely on a stranger’s internet posting if you don’t mind.

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