Have You Ever Been Questioned About Why You Want to Cap?

[rugbygirl]

May I ask a question? One of my dreams is to travel to Ireland and go foxhunting with one of the Hunts that is open to guests. I am working on my riding with that goal in mind (not ready yet), but mostly lurk in this forum collecting potentially useful future information.

The part of the OP’s email that I found odd was the “first flight” request. I thought (based on very little real info) that you would need to prove yourself to any new club and earn the privilege of riding with the first flight.

Is that maybe one of the reasons the Master might have been a little irritated?

[altjaeger]

At the 3 hunt clubs that I’ve hunted, YOU DECIDE, what flight to hunt. Obviously, if you can’t cut it or are endangering other riders, you’d be asked to move to a slower paced flight or, in extreme cases, asked to drop out entirely.

[Beverley]

Ah, well, Ireland (and UK) are VERY different from US. They don’t have differing fields, and don’t much care what you do. When hounds are running, you take your own line, and would be wise to pick some competent and nonsuicidal local to follow…I could tell you tales, not mine personally as I have not yet hunted there. I did innocently go on a trail ride in Scarteen country in 2002, was surreptitiously vetted by the trail ride leader (making the beginner riders wait and telling me, ‘go jump that…’ ‘that’ being progressively more complex obstacles including banks and ditches, and jumping into water). At ride’s end I was pronounced qualified to hunt with the Black and Tan should I so desire in the future.

Car and foot followers in Ireland are counting on us Yanks to hunt over there and provide entertainment for them- and that doesn’t involve attire or etiquette issues.

[gothedistance]

@wanabe;4494067

First, let me say that the MASTER was the name given to contact, on that hunt’s website.

Second, I said “first flight horse” as short hand for “I will be riding first flight, and I would like a horse that is suitable for that”. I wish I had used the longer praseology, or not even brought it up in the initial communication.

I HAVE taken note of the examples given and will use them in the future.

Neither my hunt’s secretary OR master are aware of any such tradition requiring master-to-master contact. So, how was I to absorb that?

Finally, yes I did re-contact and apologize for breaking some rule of etiquette, and said I would have my master contact her and spent several sentences giving my background.

Although she was polite, she implied that I lacked experience, and needed to purchase a horse and trailer (and truck), also that, and I quote:

“Those who are busy day in and day out making the Hunt and the hunting don’t always take kindly to hearing about your adventures on the road. It is almost always novices who want to hunt around, or those veterans who aren’t entirely welcome anywhere.”

Regarding email vs phone contact. I may not know all the rules of hunting etiquette, but I think I am qualified to say that an email contact is much preferable to phone, when contacting someone initially.

Finally, the hunt secretary is not listed on the website as a contact. The master is given as a contact, first on the list, and her email is provided. Why wouldn’t I use it?

OK. The website said who to contact. You did so, but the written request wasn’t written quite right and it ticked off the Master. Who knows – maybe she was having a bad day, dealing with an irate landowner threatening to close their land due to the actions of a poorly behaving hunt guest. Again, who knows?

Unfortunately, first impressions prevailed for the Master when you called, and you were (in essence) blown off with a no because you lacked what she thought was essential for a guest.

So… take that hint and cross that hunt off your list. That Master doesn’t want you at her “party”.

Really a bit of a bummer, but…lesson learned. You know how to approach a hunt next time with better chances for success :).

[Hounds]

For Beverley

Did you happen to meet Hugh Walker with the Scarteen?

[fernie_fox]

As an older foxhunter ,ex whip/field master/secretary etc.

It always used to be deemed “good manners” to present a letter of introduction from your home-based hunt secretary,or Master.

I still think this would apply,especially if you are looking to lease a horse for the day.

Just good old fashioned manners.

The hunting world IS very small place,believe me,many folks don’t even realize their “bad” manners.

Many times I cringe at some of the nonsense I read on line.

But good old fashioned manners go a long way.

I have hunted for well over 50 years,there are soo many changes,but I would not be leasing my horses to a stranger[unless they had a letter of introduction from their home pack.]

[Beverley]

@Hounds;4495383

Did you happen to meet Hugh Walker with the Scarteen?

Did not. Was there in June and really just looked up a local stable to go for a hack while the guys were golfing. John, at the stable, who led our ride, was my closest contact to the hunt, can’t recall last name offhand! But really ought to return during hunting season, soon…

[SLW]

@wanabe;4494067

Although she was polite, she implied that I lacked experience, and needed to purchase a horse and trailer (and truck), also that, and I quote:

“Those who are busy day in and day out making the Hunt and the hunting don’t always take kindly to hearing about your adventures on the road. It is almost always novices who want to hunt around, or those veterans who aren’t entirely welcome anywhere.”

Holy Wild Range Cow Batman, ruuuun from this hunt/person. :eek: As if the first correspondence wasn’t cactus like enough, you found a rattlesnake right beside it.

Heavens above, I monitor our hunts email box. A capping query came in a couple weeks ago which did not provide a 1/10th of the info the OP offered in her query. A simple background check among members and presto, two very nice college students will be hunting with us shortly!

[awm]

for Hounds—

Is Hugh up with the Ward Union now?
If this is the same man, I met him in '07!
Quite a character!
Ann

[Hounds]

For AWM

Nope, I’m afraid he died some time ago! He was quite a character, though! He was jt-MFH at the Scarteen.

[BEARCAT]

As a newbie to foxhunting (I have gone out 3 times over the past couple of years), the original email sent by the OP could have been similar to something I would have written. Short, to the point, asking for more information on dates, etc.
I thought the response was quite rude. Perhaps instead of assuming everybody is a troll or a scammer, one should assume everyone is royalty and treat them as such. The reply could have included a request to telephone the hunt secretary to discuss the OP’s hunt experience, riding ability, who they might call to rent a horse locally, etc, etc.

[TBPNW]

“Screening” guests, it’s interesting that I did not even realize that this was done, as was mentioned in this thread. I would’ve thought the chance to judge would’ve been done in person, on horseback.

[Carol_Ames]

how very rude! and uncalled for!

Who was this from, the hunt secretary/ master / huntsma:confused:an?

[Hunter_s_Rest]

TBPNW - Beggin’ your pardon, but ‘judging on horseback’ would be wayyyy too late with a broken leg (from a wayward kick), a dead hound (from ditto, or an out of control horse), a trampled seeded field (ditto), a broken fence (ditto), an injured member (ditto), or injured/dead guest (ditto.)
I’m no staff member, but I for one want to be damned sure that whoever is riding with any group I’m with is at least familiar with the sport, the hounds, hte game, the horse he’s on, and general rules of safety.
Competence, I’ve claimed until I’m blue in the face, is worth 1000x all the ‘correct’ attire/fancy-schmancy etiquette (ribbons up or down, what size buttons, what breed of horse, what style of braids). As a member with colors from 2 clubs I’ve hunted witih for nearly 4 decades, I appreciate competence above all else.
Forgive the pitiable officer, then, for trying to estimate competence before a guest is on horseback.

[Alagirl]

@BEARCAT;4496229

As a newbie to foxhunting (I have gone out 3 times over the past couple of years), the original email sent by the OP could have been similar to something I would have written. Short, to the point, asking for more information on dates, etc.
I thought the response was quite rude. Perhaps instead of assuming everybody is a troll or a scammer, one should assume everyone is royalty and treat them as such. The reply could have included a request to telephone the hunt secretary to discuss the OP’s hunt experience, riding ability, who they might call to rent a horse locally, etc, etc.

I don’t hunt, like ettiquette and manners, but tend to overlook honest to goodness mis steps, the initial reply was something, the follow up reply was something else, I am still picking myself off the floor, I mean, not only do you need to own your horse, trailer and truck as well! :lol: what else, a Piper Cub or Chesna?

[clm08]

[QUOTE=Alagirl;4496941]
I don’t hunt, like ettiquette and manners, but tend to overlook honest to goodness mis steps, the initial reply was something, the follow up reply was something else, I am still picking myself off the floor, I mean, not only do you need to own your horse, trailer and truck as well! :lol: what else, a Piper Cub or Chesna?[/QUOTE]

:lol::lol: Thanks for a great laugh, Alagirl!

I agree, as a newbie to this sport who has just gone hunting for the very first time, as a guest, I’d never want to try hunting if I got the response the OP got. Fortunately the huntsman and all members of that hunt were extrenely gracious and welcoming and I had a wonderful experience. I talked to the huntsman by phone, but he didn’t do a “background check” on me to assess that I wouldn’t trash the land, behave inappropriately, or endanger his fixture. All he knew from our phone conversation was that I was the D.C. of a local pony club and wanted to bring some pony clubbers along to experience foxhunting. It turned out that none of the kids ended up going, but I was still welcome.

Foxhunting does have an elitist aura to it, some of the responses I read in this thread make me think there is truth to the perception, but luckily my sole experience to date was anything but.

[danceronice]

I don’t think anyone is saying that the hunt should just blindly welcome anyone who calls up and says “Hey, I want to go hunting!” Of course they need to know who wants to hunt.

I think what people are objecting to is the extreme rudeness and snobbery of the reply. It is entirely possible to say no and still be polite about it.

[2ndyrgal]

Here’s a little story on different hunts

Decades ago, I managed the hunt barn for a well known-recognized hunt. Roaded hounds, worked in the kennels, rode the difficult horses during the week so they wouldn’t be too keen for their owners to hunt on Saturday or Sunday. Got along well with everyone, many praises and nice tips, huntsman loved me as I was helping get many “hopeful staff” horses going during the spring and summer. No one ever asked me if I’d like to hunt with them. Ever. I was simply “the help”. Good enough to ride Poopsie all week, but not important enough to ask if I’d like to hunt, though several of my school horses were retired hunt horses, so I’d have been more than suitably mounted, and a great many hunts were at the kennels. Fast forward twenty years, married well, different hunt, different husband. Huntsman’s wife makes my acquaintence, has horses to hire (mine was no way EVER going to hunt) and due to the perception that we were not hurting for money, the red carpet was fairly rolled out for us. Now, the huntsman’s wife had seen me ride, and knew the horse. I purchased a horse later that would hunt, but lost him, and spent a season hunting twice a week on a horse not my own. When after having been a member for some years and being a bit disapointed at not receiving my colors as quickly as some had, I asked one of the board members and was told that the board felt I wasn’t dedicated enough because I didn’t have my own horse to hunt. Now the huntsman that leased me a horse a time or two a week at a pretty penny, was likely not part of that decision, but there you go. I no longer hunt, and miss the hunting, but not the politics and some of the outdated policies which have nothing to do with dress, protocol or ettiquette.

[seeuatx]

Based on the initial reply and then some of the subsequent replies from COTH posters, I would seriously reconsider any desire to hunt if I were even in a position to do so. There are about 3 hunts within an approx. 3 hour drive from me, and I have always longed to give it a shot. Thing is, I do not now, and probably won’t for some time, have a horse suitable to hunt. I ride what I can get when I can get it. I am not in a position to go buy even if I wanted to (which I do).

I have plenty of experience, frankly more than most of the local hunt members that I have known (some of whom think nothing of jumping 2’6 fences, but can’t even post the trot) and spent several years in pony club learning the rules of hunting without the chance to do it. Yet, even after meeting hunt members and expressing an interest, I have never been invited. The only thing I would know to do would be either call or email a “contact” from the website and hope not to get shot down for not going through the “proper channels”… or <gasp> not having an email that was prolix enough.

So… here I am, waiting for an invitation that will never come, while the hunts wonder why their memberships dwindle. Please.

[Alagirl]

@danceronice;4497039

I don’t think anyone is saying that the hunt should just blindly welcome anyone who calls up and says “Hey, I want to go hunting!” Of course they need to know who wants to hunt.

I think what people are objecting to is the extreme rudeness and snobbery of the reply. It is entirely possible to say no and still be polite about it.

That about sums it up.