Oh my, a very poor choice of words on my part if your are referencing my comment about a background check, I apologize!! :sadsmile: The comment was meant to be more “is this a local person, do you know of her or is this a troll?” but I could see where, as first written, it could come across as snobby.
[QUOTE=seeuatx;4497273]
Based on the initial reply and then some of the subsequent replies from COTH posters, I would seriously reconsider any desire to hunt if I were even in a position to do so. There are about 3 hunts within an approx. 3 hour drive from me, and I have always longed to give it a shot. Thing is, I do not now, and probably won’t for some time, have a horse suitable to hunt. I ride what I can get when I can get it. I am not in a position to go buy even if I wanted to (which I do).
I have plenty of experience, frankly more than most of the local hunt members that I have known (some of whom think nothing of jumping 2’6 fences, but can’t even post the trot) and spent several years in pony club learning the rules of hunting without the chance to do it. Yet, even after meeting hunt members and expressing an interest, I have never been invited. The only thing I would know to do would be either call or email a “contact” from the website and hope not to get shot down for not going through the “proper channels”… or <gasp> not having an email that was prolix enough.
So… here I am, waiting for an invitation that will never come, while the hunts wonder why their memberships dwindle. Please.[/QUOTE]
Membership dwindling?? DWINDLING??? Are you kidding??
That statement alone shows you know NOTHING about hunting, don’t want to hunt, yet presume you can speak for what it is.:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Gimme a break.
Let me educate you. A hunt is a PRIVATE “party” that is solely orchestrated, paid for, and held by a Master. Period. He/she is the recognized financial source for maintaining the hounds, the staff, and is the one who gets permission from surrounding landowners to cross/use their lands. The Master calls all the shots in regards to his/her hunt. After all, it is his/her party.
The field are the invited guests, and those who have asked (politely) to come as well. Colors are awarded not based on time, but for reasons that a “guest” has become a valued “friend” to the hunt and deserves special recognition.
I don’t care if you claim you can jump the Empire State building. Hunting isn’t about bragging on about how pretty in the saddle you are in a flat ring. It is about the hounds, darling. It is about how they are hunting, how well they do with the scenting, and how carefully they work as both individuals and as a pack to find and track the appropriate game with the support of the Huntsman and his/her staff.
And it is a private affair. Always has been, always will be. Not a public free-for-all. You already said you don’t have a hunt horse. If you REALLY wanted to hunt, you’d read up on the sport so that you are well versed on the protocol (you do study a dressage test before you pay entry to a show, right??), look to lease a seasoned hunter, call and introduce yourself to the appropriate hunt member (Secretary or Master) and ASK permission to cap with a hunt.
If you are going to sit there, waiting for someone to come to you with an invite, you might as well make yourself comfortable because you could be there a long, long, long time.
[QUOTE=seeuatx;4497273]
So… here I am, waiting for an invitation that will never come, while the hunts wonder why their memberships dwindle. Please.[/QUOTE]
Hunts dwindling??? Where ever on this planet did you dream that up?? 
:rolleyes: Most hunts work hard to keep their numbers at a managable level – too many people mean more damage to land, and that is a headache for every Master on the planet.
You want to hunt? Then find a good seasoned hunter to lease, and get on the phone to call the Sec or Master, introduce yourself, and ask permission to cap. People who hunt are doers, not sitters.
Hunts ARE dwindling…
It is a given fact that there are hunts across N.A. that are realizing a reduction in renewed memberships, people struggling with payment of dues and increased expenses. I believe there are fewer recognized and registered hunts with the MFHA than last year. Recently a member of a hunt in Virginia told me that their hunt had lost many members in the last year due to aging and the economy (and perhaps the nasty attitude of the leaders)!
Modern mounted foxhunting is at the brink. It will take only one event (such as the unavailability of hunts to able to acquire insurance) for it all to end as we know it. Landowners will just not let us cross their land without being covered by insurance!!While we (hunt clubs) all need to be cautious when it comes to offering hunting to novice riders, there are ways to promote the sport, raise revenues for the hunt and share the experience with anyone who is interested.
I, too, remember the days when you needed a letter of introduction to visit a hunt, sponsors to join the hunt and a little blue blood in your veins to sweeten the deal. Hilltopping fields were non-existent except for the colored grooms and children on leadline. As my mother-in-law once said to me…“Hilltopping??? What’s the point of hunting if you can’t jump!!” Today, even the classic hunts (Piedmont, Green Springs) have hilltopping fields of members to help pay the bills.
I will bet that you can ask any Master what his or her biggest concerns are today and the response will be having enough hunt country and paying the bills.
When I was a field secretary, it was a constant struggle to get the capping $$ and signed waivers from everyone to showed up to hunt. Now as a Master, I have even more concerns on each day of hunting. I WILL be welcoming and kind to each and everyone who is interested in the sport. Our hunt club’s (and mounted hunting in general) future depends on it.
Well from my experiences in the New England area there are a number of hunts that are dwindling. I haven’t heard of any hunt that is bursting at the seams and turning potential members away.
Maybe in other areas of the country foxhunting still remains elite and exclusive where hunts can cherrypick their membership and who they invite but that doesn’t seem to be the case around here, thankfully:).
I can list 3 area hunts that have hosted foxhunting “clinics” recently in hopes of attracting new and capable members to hunting. I’ve only been involved in the hunting scene for a short time and I have been invited to 4 different hunts, not because I am wealthy (quite the opposite actually) or a spectacular rider but I’m competent enough that I’m not dangerous and I have a suitable horse that won’t endanger the hounds or other riders/horses. That and the hunts around here seem awfully interested in increasing their membership. Unfortunately for me very few off he fixtures are terribly close and my weekends are packed with other responsibilities so I haven’t been able to take up those offers as much as I’d like.
Whoever said many hunts have a dwindling membership since most of their members are getting older is spot on ime. It seems most hunts around here have very few members in my age group (under 30) and most of these hunts would love to increase their membership with younger members that likely will stick around for 20, 30 years. The problem is most people in my age group either can’t afford to hunt, they don’t know it exists in our area, they don’t have a suitable horse or they just are not interested in hunting.
After reading this thread I sure am happy I’m in an area where hunting is accessible for those that have the desire to get out there and hunt. I truly feel bad for those that want to get out there and hunt in other parts of the country and have come across snobbery and elitism. Perhaps 10, 15 years from now when those in their 50’s and 60’s are no longer out there hunting their tune will change:sigh:
But you see - that is what some people don’t seem to understand. Some of these posts are from riders - riders only. Not hunters. Hunters (not just mounted foxhunters) struggle with these problems all the time.
This is not limited to mounted foxhunting. There are all kinds of hunt clubs, for all sorts of game species.
They ALL have this problem. How to balance their responsibility to members and the landowners with their desire to welcome and mentor newcomers.
Some folks seem to have the impression that a hunt club is just some faceless entity that exists for their personal enjoyment and recreation and that’s foxhunting exists in some sort of vacuum.
That’s not true - and it’s not true of clubs that hunt other species.
It’s not about having a fancy horse, or a fancy jacket - that’s all BS and we all know it. First and foremost - it’s about SAFETY.
It’s a terribly dangerous sport and there is nothing wrong with the club trying to ascertain the competence of the rider - or declining a person who may not have the ability to keep up with that particular hunt.
Notwithstanding the OP’s very selective quotes from this hunt club - it’s still OK to welcome a guest but do one’s best to ensure the rider doesn’t pose a danger to himself, others, or the landowner.
The person who is waiting around for an invitation to hunt - but who doesn’t have a suitable horse - well - what the heck is the hunt supposed to do? They may think you’re a fantastic person, be a tremendous rider - but simply do not have the ability to outfit you and provide you a free horse. How one could think that is “elitist or snobby” is beyond me.
The clubs I permit to hunt on my land do that - and they’re not “snobby or elitist”. They’re simply sportsmen who formed a club, spent a tremendous amount of time cultivating landowners - and do their best to hunt safely, ethically and responsibly on my land.
When they bring a guest out - they do their best to make sure that guest is competent to handle a firearm (or bow), is licensed, and is responsible and ethical. As a landowner - I’m VERY appreciative.
If other sportsmen can do that - surely mounted foxhunting clubs can do that too. None of you have the right to hunt on someone else’s land. And you are hunting - just like the tens of thousands of other hunters across the US.
It doesn’t matter that you’re on horses (or mules), wearing Western attire or Gore-tex - or that you are very formal and old fashioned or uber casual.
The fact is not all hunt clubs can accommodate every level of rider, huge numbers in the field, or has hirelings in the area for guests.
I can think of a couple of hunts in my area my horse couldn’t keep up with. Doesn’t make that hunt snobby or elitist - and it doesn’t mean I don’t have the "right"horse.
I just don’t have the right horse for their territory. Oh well. I’m not going to cry about it or complain about the club on the Internet - I just can’t keep up with that hunt.
When I go duck hunting I get quizzed - these folks don’t know me from Adam. Big deal. It’s ok. I understand and appreciate their caution. Same with with deer hunting - folks just want to know you’re not going to cause a problem.
They may not choose the most elegant language - indeed I’ve never seen such a string of blue words as I have out duck hunting.:lol: But how one responds is telling as well. 
[quote=JSwan;4497640]
It’s not about having a fancy horse, or a fancy jacket - that’s all BS and we all know it. First and foremost - it’s about SAFETY.
It’s a terribly dangerous sport and there is nothing wrong with the club trying to ascertain the competence of the rider - or declining a person who may not have the ability to keep up with that particular hunt.
This I agree with 100%. One thing that does make me nervous about hunting is whether or not I can depend on the hunt I’m riding with to prevent other riders/horses that are NOT safe from joining. I personally am not willing to risk the safety of my horse or myself out hunting with people that just are not safe in the hunt field.
My beef is really with those hunts that exclude people due to a lack of trust fund, land ownership, fancy horse or truck & trailer which it appears from this thread does in fact still happen in this country.
I have NO problem with hunts that exclude those that are not competent riding in groups or are on unsafe horses!
Nah - I don’t get upset over it. There are hunts here that require land ownership to be a member. I understand.
It’s like the clubs that lease land to hunt - their membership fees are high because they secure exclusive rights to hunt on land. So redneck scum like me can’t join those hunts and go deer hunting. Too rich for my blood.
What folks are complaining of on this thread really isn’t unique to mounted foxhunting. It may just seem so because so many of y’all don’t hunt other species.
Substitute the word “fox” for “deer, quail, bear, etc” and it’s the same or similar tune. Loss of land, insurance (a HUGE issue), safety safety safety, landowner permission, fragmentation of territory that results in less available land to safely hunt (most true of hunting with dogs), and clubs that are compelled to exclude people even though they really want to be welcoming and mentor.
Having seen a guest’s horse kick a hound so hard it almost died - and that guest never stopping to help the hound, hold member’s horses, apologize to the Master or huntsman, or even offer to help pay for the vet bills - I can promise you there is such a thing as a Bad Guest.
(the hound lived, thank God)
[QUOTE=LookinSouth;4497666]
My beef is really with those hunts that exclude people due to a lack of trust fund, land ownership, fancy horse or truck & trailer which it appears from this thread does in fact happen still happen in this country.
I have NO problem with hunts that exclude those that are not competent riding in groups or are on unsafe horses!
I’ve seen one of “my” hounds (welped from the bitch in my barn and walked by me every day from a puppy on a lead to the proud day he was “entered” in the pack - how I puffed my chest out the first day he honored a line!!!) KICKED and badly hurt by a visiting clueless guest who was subsequently told to leave the field immediately by the furious huntsman, same guest being told by the Master later that said guest was not welcomed back to hunt anymore.
I’ve also seen a beautifully voiced, wonderful senior hound killed by a kick at the start of a hunt as the field was moving off. It was a very subdued hunt the rest of the day. I don’t think the field spoke a word above a hushed whisper for the next two hunts… if we dared speak at all.
It certainly brings home WHO does the hunting – we are merely honored spectators who are lucky enough to find ways to witness the truly beautiful and talented “dance” of hounds and their wild quarry over the natural countryside.
I’d suggest to anyone who doesn’t have a hunt horse to see if a hunt they would like to cap at has car followers who can follow the hunt from the comfort of their vehicles. Some hunts are very welcoming in allowing car followers and a few even have a “field master” for the cars to follow to get to the right places to watch the hounds and (hopefully!!) catch a “view” while maintaining the proper protocol. It can be great fun, and very social when you gather with other car followers out of your vehicles, all standing on a knoll or high spot off the road to watch the colorful pagentry of riders and listen to the breathtaking, soul lifting music of the hounds echoing through the woods and floating over the fields.
Just one of the many ways hunts open their doors to others who also wish to enjoy this age old, wonderful sport. :yes:
[QUOTE=gothedistance;4497810]
I’d suggest to anyone who doesn’t have a hunt horse to see if a hunt they would like to cap at has car followers who can follow the hunt from the comfort of their vehicles. Some hunts are very welcoming in allowing car followers and a few even have a “field master” for the cars to follow to get to the right places to watch the hounds and (hopefully!!) catch a “view” while maintaining the proper protocol. It can be great fun, and very social when you gather with other car followers out of your vehicles, all standing on a knoll or high spot off the road to watch the colorful pagentry of riders and listen to the breathtaking, soul lifting music of the hounds echoing through the woods and floating over the fields.
:[/QUOTE]
Except this tells a potential foxhunter absolutely nothing about whether they will actually enjoy hunting enough to want to buy a suitable horse and/or train up a green horse. (Note: I’ve already gotten one invitation related to my other thread to call up the master, come out, lease a horse, and cap with a hunt in my state, with COTHer willing to ‘babysit’ me during the hunt, so I can see if it’s actually something I really want to do and therefore would use as a priority in selecting a new horse.) Riding along in a car and staring from a distance says nothing that watching a foxhunt on TV won’t tell you about whether you think it looks fun. That’s not being involved, that’s spectating.
Again: no one is saying that every hunt should welcome every bozo who comes down the pike. The point is that first, it never pays to be rude, especially when you do a very unpopular sport (as relates to percentage of the population) that requires you have access to a lot of land and already is percieved as outdated and elitist at best, cruelty to all animals concerned at worst. And second, not everyone who is interested in taking up foxhunting has a horse this instant, and even if they do the horse may not be ready, or they don’t currently own a trailer (a particularly absurd requirement, imo–are show riders who haul with their trainer and don’t buy a trailer themselves not serious?) So should they buy a new horse, or retrain their current horse, and buy a truck and a trailer, before they get anywhere near a hunt field to prove that they’re ‘serious’?
Look at this thread–a couple people have already said some of the responses have put them off the idea of foxhunting.
[QUOTE=danceronice;4497995]
new horse.) Riding along in a car and staring from a distance says nothing that watching a foxhunt on TV won’t tell you about whether you think it looks fun.[/QUOTE]
Not true. Not true at all. Many a newcomer has learned heaps about hound work and hunting by listening to an old timer who can’t hunt anymore. Or an injured member who is cartopping for the season.
Car topping can be invaluable. Just like hilltopping. Hilltoppers and cartoppers often get the BEST views of the houndwork and the quarry. If you have a good eye for riding and horses - you can learn a lot about what sort of territory the hunt has, what level of skill is needed, and get to know people without having to deal with a nervous horse.
It’s hard to start hunting on a green horse. I know - I did it. I spent so much time focusing on my horse I didn’t spend much time actually hunting. It can absolutely be done - it’s done all the time! But it’s hard! It can take several seasons for a green horse to settle down.
No one wants anyone to fail. No one wants anyone to get hurt or killed. No one wants a ticked off landowner. No one wants to offend.
And yet - even with the best intentions and best laid plans - it happens.
Hunts are welcoming. People are nice. But no one wants to hold your hand waiting for the Medivac to arrive. No one wants to see a dead hound or dead horse.
How we make the sport safe and fun for everyone - including landowners - can be difficult. It may include declining to allow someone to hunt when that person is a bad sport, unskilled, or not able to keep up with THAT particular hunt. How a person reacts to that rejection…
A good way to become exposed to the sport is by doing things like trail rides, clinics, and yes - cartopping! Get to know folks, and if you express interest in the hounds you will find ready acceptance (at least by the hounds!)
I once spent a day with a retired huntsman - car topping. He taught me more about hunting in those few hours, than I learned in a year of actual hunting. Invaluable.
JSwan (and Gothedistance) I agree with your post above about the value of “cartopping” and I think y’all omitted a big part of danceronice point which was “Except this tells a potential foxhunter absolutely nothing about whether they will actually enjoy hunting enough to want to buy a suitable horse and/or train up a green horse.”
I could stand ringside by George Morris for a day and not know if riding a regular working hunter course is something I would enjoy these days. Would I learn a lot? You betcha, it would be a priceless day.
Her point was about being rude. I think the best thing to come from the OP’s post here is the importance of being communicative enough when making an email query to hunt and the importance of a civil and equally polite reply from the hunt member who responds to emails.
As for the guest horse’s who kicked hounds, SHAME on the hunt member who was suppose to be helping the guest that day. I’m not gobsmocked that a first time horse (I’m guessing these were first time horses) kicked at a hound. I’m gobsmocked that the member helping the guest allowed the situation to be set up. Especially if a guest comes to hunt for the first time sans any roading or hilltopping exposure- same thing if a member brings a green horse out for it’s first hunting experience in December. That poses all sorts of possible problems and scenes and it is up the hunt & it’s members to protect the assets- the hounds.
We just had a Pony Club & Youth Hunt last weekend- 22 young ones. Amen. 
They were under the educated and well timed eyes of their instructors (members) or another adult (such as myself) who could keep them out of harms way all the while having some fun. The youth that I helped had a tough little horse would would take the bit, tuck in his nose, and try to run. She masterfully circled him and I would pull up to wait until she circled and she would fall in behind me.
SLW - that’s a fair criticism of my post and I appreciate you pointing that out - and what folks can learn by what appears to be the OP’s experience. (the guest that kicked that hound was not sponsored or accompanied by a member - the person was a relative stranger - just wanted to clear that up)
For those who are “turned off” by this thread, I’d encourage you to read the dozens upon dozens of others. To a one they are all positive, encouraging, and helpful.
Folks on this BB, in my hunt, and on FOL were extremely helpful when I started out.
Often they told me things I didn’t want to hear. I needed to hear them anyway - we all do.
Taking their advice, listening to their concerns - taking correction (even when it was a little harsh) has turned me into what I hope is a good foxhunter.
If not a good one - at least a safe one to be around! It’s a huge learning curve and it takes TIME to learn the ropes - just like any other horse sport.
And I extend, again, an open invitation to any member of the COTH BB to come hunt, as my guest, with a local footpack.
No horse required - just good stout walking shoes and a sense of humor.
Happy hunting.
I wholeheartedly agree - following the bassets has been one of the highlights of the year for me. I never even knew about this sport until COTHers enlightened me and it is SO MUCH FUN. It was a great way to introduce the hunting-crazed husband to the dynamics of the hunt before he tried it out on horseback with foxhounds.
Jessica -
I’ll be out there with the bassets this winter, too, once foxhunting is halted by unrideable weather. The foot packs are a blast – I’ve always found the Master, staff, and foot field are delightfully friendly and inviting. Can’t miss me in the field, either – I’m the one tromping along dressed in the floor length mink coat and tall muck boots!! :lol: No reason not to be toasty warm from head to toe while watching the short legged long ears chase up some wily bunnies. 
I’ll see you out there, too, wateryglen!
Do your research
After reading the many colorful, informative and super interesting responses to the OP’S question, I think the bottom line is, if you want to be a guest of ANY hunt, do your research first. The MFH of that hunt was quite curt, but having hunted with several different hunts way down here in GA, the MFH’s often have to be super protective about random inquiries, guests, etc. lest you show up at your fixture to be greeted by a van load of PETA protestors. Many hunts here do not have websites for that very reason even though they are very active, respectable and large hunts.
Call me old fashioned, but before I started hunting, I got to know some members, was invited to ride along on the tally-ho wagon, volunteered at hunt breakfasts and stirrup cups, politely accepted the invitation to hilltop on a borrowed horse (mine was not suitable for hunting) and also waited to be “vetted” before being invited to move up to 2nd…1st flight etc. Every hunt is different, and in some hunts you don’t just announce that you are riding first flight, or even speak to the master until spoken to other than when you are introduced to him by the member who invited you and to thank him for allowing you to cap. I find that everyone I’ve ever met and hunted with is friendly and welcoming, but it’s sort of a “pay your dues” sport and thats not elitist, it’s just a requirement to keep everyone safe and happy. We welcome guests down here and would go out of our way to find you a suitable mount, but if you come across as “entitled”, it won’t get you far, although I know that wasn’t your intention at all. I sort of think of it like this, I also event and am very dedicated to the sport, but I wouldn’t dare ask Philip Dutton by e-mail to come join him for a morning trot set, even if his website gave the contact info. There are a few unspoken “rules” when hunting and anyone who is dedicated to the sport and learning more about it, will make the effort to learn them. Maybe that’s what the MFH was trying to convey… though rather unsucessfully.
I hope WANABE keeps hunting, and I also hope he takes the time to learn about the traditions and etiquette of each hunt he hunts with since they obviously differ greatly! It’s such a neat thing to be a part of and we need to appreciate the landowners, masters, and staff and respect their customs and sometimes even be sensitive to their eccentricities. WANABE, if you are ever down in GA, we’ll get you an invitation to cap, but please, for your own good, contact the secretary and don’t tell ANYONE at any hunt in GA that you are riding first flight before you’ve even been introduced. I say that with love.
Happy Hunting!
PS- it’s great to know that so many different hunts out there will readily accept out of town guests- I’ve never read through this forum before- silly me!
not to derail this, but how do you go about finding a pack?
Either, mounted or foot…
[QUOTE=skip916;4498613]
Call me old fashioned, but before I started hunting, I got to know some members, was invited to ride along on the tally-ho wagon, volunteered at hunt breakfasts and stirrup cups, politely accepted the invitation to hilltop on a borrowed horse (mine was not suitable for hunting) and also waited to be “vetted” before being invited to move up to 2nd…1st flight etc.[/QUOTE]
I found this thread very helpful!
As someone who would like to take up hunting in the next 2-3 years, this (above) sounds like a great plan. How would/did you initiate ‘first contact’ to participate in non-hunting activities without coming across as totally random? Would this be a general letter of introduction scenario, or warrant a call to the secretary?
My local hunt has a few hunting shows(?) open to non-members each year; I think this would be a great place to start to get to know members and get a feel for the atmosphere. Would this again be an introduction scenario, or just a ‘fill in the entry form’ procedure?
I would appreciate comments or advice from anyone who is a hunter.
[QUOTE=tartan;4502116]
I found this thread very helpful!
As someone who would like to take up hunting in the next 2-3 years, this (above) sounds like a great plan. How would/did you initiate ‘first contact’ to participate in non-hunting activities without coming across as totally random? Would this be a general letter of introduction scenario, or warrant a call to the secretary?
My local hunt has a few hunting shows(?) open to non-members each year; I think this would be a great place to start to get to know members and get a feel for the atmosphere. Would this again be an introduction scenario, or just a ‘fill in the entry form’ procedure?[/QUOTE]
yes, call the secretary. I think its nice to take the time to call and explain who you are and what you would like to do. One of the best ways to endear yourself to a hunt is to volunteer! helping at the show might be a good way to start, and hunts always need help. Walking hounds, clearing trails, fixing jumps, helping with social events and teas, and possibly riding fixtures with staff prior to hunts to check the territory. There is an awful lot of work that goes on “behind the scences” to support the hunt, and most hunts depend on their members to lend a hand. And dont let this thread deter you, foxhunters are a friendly convivial bunch - in general
and most hunts are very welcoming to new folks.
