Head tossing/bit issue? Allergy test result

[IPEsq]

My asthma horse would have one cough, maybe 2, in the warmup. That was his only coughing. When the asthma is under control, there is no coughing under saddle. But some nose clearing (which is a good thing, if he doesn’t do it then he starts almost mouth breathing because his lower airway is constricted).

The one I have who is fussy in the contact sneezes a lot especially in canter. I’ve tried Zyrtec, nebulizer, allergy testing, no noseband, nose net (that was waaaay worse), and the different bits. It’s worse if it’s windy or dusty. And also worse when he’s behind the leg. Like he holds his breath. Because there doesn’t seem to be any therapy or equipment that makes a difference and I have no cough, I’m trying to address it from a training perspective (ignore the tossing and sneezing but trying to reinforce he’s got to go forward anyway). It’s super frustrating. He also can take the contact and work pretty nicely. He just would rather try the evasions instead. Which suggests something is wrong but I don’t have any idea. He also did get sore stifles at one point (he is growing), and we have tried support with ProStride and Adequan and it makes no difference with the front end things.

[atr]

Have you ever scoped him, IPesq? It would be interesting to know what his larynx was doing. I see no reason why horses wouldn’t have the same odd laryngeal disfunctions as humans. (Mine opens and closes randomly at times which is somewhat disconcerting…I’d toss my head, too!)

[IPEsq]

No but that is on my radar since I’ve been down that path with my other horse (with asthma, he had all the scopes done). The vets seem totally unconcerned. I have started doing acupuncture on his TMJs about once a month, and he loves that. I also MagnaWave his head every week or two. But nothing yet that has made a noticeable change in work. He didn’t do this before I imported him from what I can tell via the host of videos I have of him (I bought him from the breeder who is a friend of mine). So I thought initially it would have to be allergies, but we are 2 years in to him being here and I’m no closer to figuring it out. I’ve had him examined numerous times by the vets. Maybe it’s time that one of them tries riding him.

But when he lets go of his tension in his back, he is a bit better. I’ve been rehabbing the asthma horse and he is now doing a lot more poles and cavaletti, and if I really open him up and he has to actually reach and jump something (use his abs and back more), that seems to trigger airway clearing for him even on a day where the air quality isn’t great and he’s struggling a little. Young horse is chronically behind the leg and gets very up and down when doing all his fussing and sneezing. I’ve been trying to get him to just go and stretch to help him…but he is much greener and so the training component of it all is a significant part of the challenge. However, I feel he is not progressing in the training because of the tension he feels from whatever is going on physically. Horses.

[atr]

Sounds like me with 4 legs, darn it.

[ake987]

Sounds a lot like what my current OTTB did when we were starting out. I found his head tossing had more to do with saddle fit and weakness than bit/bridle. When he rubbed his nose incessantly and/or gaped, sticking his tongue out, that was usually bit/bridle. He rubs the least in a plain cavesson with a padded crank kinda loose - even less rubbing when I got rid of the flash. The magical bit for him is the Bombers Moulded Mullen on a D-ring, it’s like a softer, thinner, more flexible Nathe or Duo.

I’ve become religious about stretching him before our rides as I tack up (belly lifts, carrot stretches, butt scratches, hind leg stretches), 2-5 minutes of lateral work in-hand, and 2-5 minutes of loose-rein walking before getting to work and it has made an incredible difference. I hop on and he’s already soft and supple and coming up to the contact vs. spending the first five minutes getting there.

Just my experience, if it’s at all helpful. Good luck!

[Critter]

So two days ago I took the flash off (not that it was that tight anyway) as I don’t think I had tried that with the mullen mouth bit…we didn’t have a cough (first time in a while) but did a bunch of sneezes. But it was a good ride day where she got really nice through the ride.

Yesterday, I kept things the same…she actually offered trot earlier in the walk work. And then stopped and proceeded to cough a few times. This time the cough had a choking/gurgle sound to it. Then she just wasn’t settled the rest of the ride. Not bad, but just not feeling as connected and relaxed as the day before.

Called my vet to set up the scope…with the sound she made yesterday, there’s more than just a pre-exercise throat clearing happening.

I’ve also realized that I’ve had her home for nearly a year and we’ve not made much progress…granted she’s really a good girl and we don’t have drama…but we seem to be constantly working on just getting that nice connection and strength through her back. I keep saying it just takes time…but realizing it probably shouldn’t be taking quite this much time.

[TWH_Girl]

Yeah- that’s sounding more like a scope issue that needs to be addressed even if the stifles are catching as a separate thing happening. One thing at a time. Best wishes and please update us after the scope. My friends 3 yr old has a similar type issue and she is currently investigating it.

[Critter]

As an update, I had the vet out this morning to do a scope.

Definitely allergies, which makes me feel a bit better. Some mucus and grade 2 pharyngitis. The rest of the scope was normal (not a roarer and no issues with the flap).

We did the blood test for allergies as a starting point…I realize they are not as reliable as the skin testing, but it’s less stressful for my mare, and I figured once we have a starting point we can always decide to skin test anything that comes up positive or is questionable. Putting her on some generic zyrtec for now to see if that also helps.

Wish I had done the scope sooner since the head tossing has been off/on for some time…but at least we have some answers now and I can get her feeling a bit more comfortable.

[Critter]

Well, for anyone interested, this is the results of the allergy blood testing (and yes, I do realize the blood tests is not as accurate as skin testing, but it’s a starting point). Of interest…my mare is a treat monster…but she has always refused apples!

At least there looks to be no hay allergy…and grasses are okay, though some weeds are not. I actually had switched her a few months ago to the Tribute Wholesome Blends balancer, which is soy free.

[IPEsq]

I think the balancer is also wheat free. The senior might have wheat middlings.

[Critter]

Yes, the balancer is wheat free…so it looks like we are at least all good with the grain situation! I don’t see anything in the balancer that she shows up with an allergy to.

But…it’s amazing how many treats have wheat in them…her favorite cookies (which she gets many of, are apple and wheat!). So maybe just cutting those out will be a big help.

I did order some of the smartpak treats and the uckele treats…but I may also just go get a bag of alfalfa pellets and I can give her a few of those (and it will be more affordable!).

[IPEsq]

Standlee makes tasty alfalfa treats that are just alfalfa, flavoring and some bentonite (I guess as the binder)? My allergy horse really likes them.

[greywithchrome]

Have you tried a nose net?

[Critter]

I have not…but now that we know there are allergy issues, I am going to order one to try.

[olim2005]

I had a head shaker that ended up having a rare esophagus cancer. Two tumors and quite large. But it all makes sense. If something is pressing on nerves that feed into the head.

My very old gelding has developed a head itch. He needs to take breaks and scratch his head. He has severe neck arthritis. Diagnosed back in 2016. Now, the nerve damage has caused some roaring. So another nerve issue.

Both horses went better in a hackamore or bridleless.

[olim2005]

I don’t know if horse allergy blood tests are like humans, you can throw some false positive results if the animal has consumed that food before test, even days before.

[Critter]

I think the blood tests are known to be not quite as reliable as skin testing…especially when it comes to food allergies.

However, I cut out all the flagged foods…and she has stopped coughing and the sneezing is much improved.

We’ve also had the best riding we’ve had since I’ve made those changes in her diet…so there has to be something to the allergy findings. We had pretty much been hitting a plateau with the head tossing issues. Since rearranging her diet, we’ve had very minimal head tossing issues. Given nothing else changed (other than adding the zyrtec)…it has to be allergy driven.

I started her allergy shots a few days ago…so far, so good. She’s been super good about getting the two shots.

[Pepsy]

Hi, Your horse with rare esophageal cancer caught my eye. My NQR horse has an area about 1/3 down her neck, around esophagus area, that is lumpy feeling I first noticed it in her side profile. She also has an extremely unusual way of twisting her neck when she accelerates and sometimes decelerates when loose. Horse not being ridden currently.
Would you be willing to share more details, symptoms, about your horse

[olim2005]

It is an extremely rare cancer. He had a choke episode and I brought him to the hospital as it didn’t resolve. We found the masses on an ultrasound and his blood panel came back with cancer. He had a mass at the base of his esophagus at the stomach that was very large. And a smaller one higher up that interfered with his swallowing, hence the choke.

I owned him for 10 years. When I got him he was an aggressive head tosser and very inverted. He was also girthy (where the big bottom tumor had been growing for some time). I made some changes and he became more comfortable but I think the tumor pressed on some nerves that made the head tossing come up for some things.

As time went on his health always struggled, lots of abscesses on his feet. Then later in life he developed frequent chokes, around 22 years old. We think this was when the cancer spread upward. He also started spooking under saddle, although I barely rode him at this point. He also started to want to be near the humans. I think he was in pain and asking for help.

Then he had a very bad choke that did not resolve and a huge fleshy mass on his chest. At first I thought it was a bad cut but that tumor was seeking other blood sources. It was horrible.

Looking back he had all these things wrong, but didn’t seem like the end of the world. No vet could explain it or thought to test him. The last year of his life had many good parts but the cancer was soooo aggressive. It literally took over in a few days and he was gone. It was terrible.

Get a blood work up and a scope. Be aggressive with the vets, but it is extremely rare cancer.

[Pepsy]

Thank you for telling your story. I will pursue this.