Heartbroken: Need stallion suggestion for KWPN mare

[Maserati]

Learning quickly that horse breeding is not for the faint of heart…

Backstory: Bred my 8yo, 16.1 KWPN/SF maiden mare to Voltaire frozen semen on 7/9. Semen quality was extremely poor - thawed at 10%, came from three different lots and the straws themselves weren’t in great shape. Six straws to a breeding dose - I was sent two breeding doses. Ultrasound this AM - no pregnancy.

Any thoughts for a Plan B? This was my dream breeding but I am quite aware that there are loads of lovely stallions out there - fresh and frozen.

Stallion suggestions please? She will be ready to re-breed the end of this week…

I will post her pedigree and picture.

[b]

What about breeding to a Voltaire son? Viva Voltaire comes to mind.

[Maserati]

Picture: http://tinypic.com/r/2u71768/8

Pedigree: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/bodacious8

[TrueColours]

What discipline are you breeding for? She looks to be a hunter type?

What are you looking to improve with her? What strong points does she bring to the table herself? What is her show record and do you want something better than her or about the same? What is her temperament like? The Voltaire’s can be “spicy” - if she is hot herself might not have been a good combination …

The more info you provide, the better the suggestions will be for you

[Maserati]

That was my first thought – Voltaire sons. Kannan, Popeye K, Viva Voltaire, Mezcalaro, Concorde… Any others? What I adore about Voltaire is that he is a truly versatile sport horse. Makes jumpers, dressage and hunter babies… An all around talent vs. a super niche stallion.

[Maserati]

[QUOTE=TrueColours;7687129]
What discipline are you breeding for? She looks to be a hunter type?

What are you looking to improve with her? What strong points does she bring to the table herself? What is her show record and do you want something better than her or about the same? What is her temperament like? The Voltaire’s can be “spicy” - if she is hot herself might not have been a good combination …

The more info you provide, the better the suggestions will be for you :)[/QUOTE]

She is very hunter type although her full sister is a successful upper level jumper -and obviously she has a lot of jumper in her pedigree.

Improving her: better (higher and smoother) neck to should tie in, cleaner throat latch maybe? A longer more elegant neck, I think she could use a little more leg, longer lines maybe,? More modernization… Her neck seems upside down a bit to me but she is also been sitting in a pasture for 4 years when that photo was taken so is 100% out of working condition.

Her temperament is absolutely ideal, gorgeous pony type head, Daisy cutter movement with a bit more WB “spring” and float to it. She hasn’t had a performance career due to life circumstances of her previous owner. She is not hot or spicy at all – an absolute sensible darling in all situations.

[Maserati]

Also, very open to suggestions re: her picture and pedigree – the good, bad and ugly!

[TrueColours]

I have long found that Voltaire tends to SHORTEN the necks of his offspring and not lengthen them. IMO you would need to have a mare with an exceptionally long neck that tends to throw long necked babies if your goal of breeding to Voltaire was to produce long necked offspring …

here are a couple of pictures of Viva Voltaire and halfway down the article a picture of Beth Underhill’s mount - Altair:

http://www.superiorhorse.net/viva.html

http://www.horsejournals.com/back-top-interview-beth-underhill

and one of Voltaire himself

http://watermolen.net/images/paarden/voltaire-stand3.jpg

Altair was also wildly talented and one of the scopiest jumpers I ever saw. BUT … he always felt he knew better than Beth did. She asked him to wait - he wanted to move up to the base of the jump. he ALWAYS argued the toss with her and as a result he would crash and get hurt and be out of commission for XX months. Time and time again. Beth eventually made a comment that she would never have another Voltaire in her barn - that as talented as they were, they broke your heart time and time again.

Don’t know how that temperament does or does not come through in the grand or great grand offspring of Voltaire though

[rodawn]

You could go with a Now or Never son, such as Valentino as well, as this combines both Voltaire and Nimmerdor, a pairing that has proven to be extremely successful. Valentino has super temperament and aptitude for jumping, a very good brain in his head, and good quality semen that works and gets mares pregnant. As a bonus, he picks up his good conformation and improved gaits via his Belisar damsire.

Valentino’s damline is exceptional. The mares in that pedigree are of VERY high regard.

[Marydell]

Valentino or his very talented son, Viscount. Viscount frozen is super and there is some in the US on the west coast. You will get a multi talented offspring. I bred a dressage mare to him and wanted a quicker hind leg and got my “won the lottery with this one” comments fro m everyone who has seen him. He has jump, even at 4 months and top quality gaits. Not a hunter, but certainly can do jumpers, dressage or eventing.

[SueL]

Or another Now Or Never son Vallado (Praise) Proven himself and is producing as well.

Your mare is a lovely hunter type btw and very pretty.

[alliekat]

I would contact Maggie from Marabet Farm in Fl. ( http://marabetfarm.us/ )
We had 2 mares that would not settle this year. I literally was on the verge of giving up on them and calling it a quits for the year. We decided to switch stallions and give it one last go. Of course Fed Ex looses my semen and while it was MIA, without being asked, she collected and rushed me a second dose, which still got there before the original collection. Mare had ovulated but we put in 1/3 of a dose since it was there. Presto, mare in foal.
My other mare we collected early for because of the holiday. She decides to take her sweet time developing her follicle. So we finally bred on Sat. night. (3 1/2 day old semen.
Presto she is pregnant too
Both mares failed to get pregnant 3 tries this year.
We even looked at Bliss MF’s semen that was over 90 hours old under the microscope. Lost with fed ex fro 2 1/2 days, the ice pack not changed or refrozen, and he was still at 35% progressive Motility!
I highly recommend Maggie, who has shown to go above and beyond for her are owners. I am beyond thrilled with out filly by Bliss this year, that waiting an entire year to meet next years, seem almost impossible.
Contact her and tell her about your mare and your goals for this breeding and she will help point you in the right direction.
Good Luck! and your mare is lovely BTW.

[Maserati]

After speaking with the repro vet she feels very strongly about doing fresh versus frozen… I’ve always been looking overseas at imported frozen – haven’t a clue what exists in this country for fresh semen. Thoughts?

I don’t want smaller than the mare 16.1 (I’m 5’10").
I want to preserve her movement and perhaps improve her trot.
I definitely don’t want to lose any of her jump.

She is pretty – looks like a giant 16.1 hand fancy pants pony mare. Dished face, tiny ears, jumps with her knees up by her ears. Daisy cutter trot with a bit more Warmblood “spring” and float. Hack winner. Model mare.

If I got her I’d be happy but of course I’d love to improve some of her weaker points.

[goodmorning]

I quite like the idea of Vallado with her type.

She is lovely, and very well bred. Her TB bloodlines are wonderful!

[TrueColours]

Bliss MF would be a terrific choice for her. I also second Maggie being fabulous to work with! I also really like her Balt Amour stallion as well

You’d get the height, the movement and the jump for sure with both stallions!

[rodawn]

Okay in that case you should also seriously look at Banderas who will improve type and give lovely gaits and a ton of jump. His foals are eligible for KWPN Registry A. He throws sweetheart temperament.

With Grannus as his damsire brings in a good brain and tends to improve type and legs. And of course Balou’s and Grannus can both jump over a house. And you just can’t go wrong following that all up with Beach Boy as the dam’s damsire. Beach Boy produced foals talented in dressage, eventing and show jumping. I believe he also had some hunter babies thrown in for good measure.

I was super pleased with my Banderas colt (sold). He is the total package improvement over his mother who, herself, is very nice, but the colt is drop-dead stunningly gorgeous. I nearly kept him as a stallion prospect.

[Darden19]

Is Mezcalero still a fresh option? He’s a great producer (Voltaire son), and should add some height. You should take to the previous owner of this horse, as she is very familiar with the mare’s family, and I know she’s had tons of ideas about who she’d breed her to. Lovely mare

[sixpoundfarm]

Perhaps consider Vegas? Voltaire/Joost/Abgar. 16.1, proven grand prix competitor, earned the crown predicate for sport results. Available fresh, Erkend (so offspring can be foal book, instead of Reg. A)
http://kwpn-na.org/stallion-directory/riding-type/vegas-crown-erkend/

Idocus would be another thought too. He is available fresh, certainly proven himself and has many children that are also.

She based on pedigree and type she certainly looks to be a blooded mare, so you could explore some of the older/heavier types for her. (Mezcalero, Viva Voltaire & Kannan)

[tucktaway]

Not sure if Hyperion(Vegas) is still collecting this season?

[Zuri]

Amazing has Voltaire in his dam line and produces lovely hunter movement, chrome, and a wonderful brain. Ahna was great to work with too.

I second Bliss MF. He is as lovely in person as he is in pics. Great movement, wonderful brain. I bred my Hanoverian mare to him this spring. Loved working with Maggie as she is very knowledgeable, helpful and goes out of her way to ensure successful breeding. If you look at pics of alliecat’s beautiful foal, you can see what he throws.

Baysofourlives who posts here has bred to Banderas, Amazing and Bliss and has produced lovely foals. It seems the Balou du Rouet and Voltaire lines produce amazing athletes, great temperaments, and beautiful movement.

Good luck in your decision!