Heated water trough safety ?

There’s been a post going around my facebook of a poor horse laying dead half in his water trough. The caption is the heater at the bottom (it’s a 100 gallon rubbermaid trough) electrified the water and the shock killed him instantly.

I’ve used Rubbermaid troughs with heaters for years and never though of this happening. My horses have never pulled them out, chewed on them, and I replace them after a few years.

My question is… is there anyway of knowing if the water is becoming electrified with out… touching it and killing myself?

How do you know they are safe?

I saw a dead horse pictured next to a trough on Facebook. Somewhere on another thread people are discussing the ground fault circuit interrupters. That’s what you need.

IIRC, also on that pic was the text that the horses had somehow broken the heater a few days prior?

This thread on an electric forum has some good info, I think: http://www.contractortalk.com/f5/shocked-horses-17842/

I only use the heated 16 gallon tubs just for that reason. There is no way the animals can get to the heater in the one made by Allied Precision. In the past I could tell if the deicer or heater had an issue because the horses were suddenly not drinking . That is another reason I prefer to use the tubs.

The only drawback is the fact that you need to fill it 3 times a day. Not an issue for me but it would be for some who aren’t home to do it.

I use a rubbermaid trough with sinking tank heater. Had a tank heater go bad and was putting out current sure didn’t kill my horse’s. Just kept them from drinking and made them scared of trough. I have cord for tank heater run through a pvc pipe that’s connected to fence post. No cord chewing and horse’s don’t mess with the heater. Also have a copper ground wire. That runs inside tank and is connected to a copper rod that’s 6 feet in the ground. [ATTACH=JSON]{“alt”:“Click image for larger version Name: 20171208_164738.jpeg Views: 1 Size: 11.5 KB ID: 9953055”,“data-align”:“none”,“data-attachmentid”:“9953055”,“data-size”:“small”}[/ATTACH]

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A GFCI will protect you and the horses. You … when you handle the heater or extension cord. If the GFCI trips … you have a problem.

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GFCIs can age out, need replacing after a while. Test to see if they go off or won’t stay working, might be time to replace the GFCI. Also, is your outlet box covered? Exposed to the weather, outlets and cord plugs can get water on them to cause problems.

We have our water tanks inside insulated wooden boxes. Being insulated prevents water freezing quickly. We only have the tank heaters on at night when horses are inside the barn. No chance of stray voltage shocking the horses if the heaters are off in daylight hours, plus no cost for electric then. Boxes are covered at night, another energy savings for you.

Rubber mats MIGHT help keeping horses from stray voltage grounding as they touch the water . Depends on if mat is wet, horse has all 4 hooves on mat as he is drinking, to be protected. You probably won’t feel a voltage leaking heater in the tank, because of your rubber boots protecting you.

Horses that get tank shocks can be difficult to keep hydrated later. Stay afraid to drink from the tank a long time with that negative training!

FB and a LOT of forums, stuff on the internet in general is not to be believed.

I have read people saying horses have died from faulty water tank heaters. But I have tried number of times doing a search for the FACTS. Using a number of different search terms. I have yet to find a single article. As far as I am concerned it something is of concern it will come up on the fist page of a search if not a second. Anything after that is not to be trusted as “fact” and or is an anomaly.

Fact 1; A horse’s nose, lip are far more sensitive than ours. They can feel, detect stray voltage a LOT much easier than humans.

Fact 2: unless the horse falls into a large tank with a defective heater in it and CAN NOT get out. There is just no way it will die, be killed by submersion its head in the tank. Let alone be killed or injured “dipping” its mouth into a tank with a faulty heater.

Fact 3: A person can not be killed or even harmed by touching a live 120 volt low amp bare wire. The VAST majority of people will drop the wire instantly. Who hangs on to a hot fence wire?. Now, if the person has a heart condition, pace maker that may give a different out come.

The majority of the residential world is wired with 240 volt outlets, lighting etc. Twice the voltage that this country is “wired” with. With good reason, much more efficient use of generated power and distribution. Longer life span for the various electrical necessities found in every household. If this 120 is dangerous then 240 should be twice as dangerous. But we don’t read about people getting killed in other parts of the world anymore then we do in this country. When’s the last time anyone read about someone being killed by dipping their hand in a heated water tank? Toughing an frayed extension cord?

Yes, a person MAY get sapped enough to cause muscle contraction that doesn’t allow them to let go, drop the wire. But I think anyone would be hard pressed to find an article, an example of this happening with 120 low amp voltage. Feel free to provide links that represent more than the “exception.”.

I can state the above because I have done the personal research. I have more than a basic understanding of these things. I have done LOTS of wiring over the years. I have been zapped MANY times. It is a lot less “shocking” than touching a fence line hot wire. Granted a fence hot wire is designed to “pulse” off and on. A hot 120 wire does not.

Fact 4: GFCI are not really meant to be used in outlets outside, esp with tank heaters. They can be and are very problematic when used this way. I used to use them in weather proof boxes by my tanks. They were ALWAYS tripping. My wiring was sound, done correctly, grounds were correct and tested as so. There are reasons GFCI do this in this type of applications. Too lengthy for me to go into. Plenty of websites that go into complete detail to be had.

It always amazing me how paranoid people are of “electricity” wiring things in general. I suppose we have Edison to blame for that. When he publicly electrocuted an elephant to try an prove that his inefficient DC generated power system was safer than his former employee Tesla’s far superior AC distribution system It was VERY graphic and well publicized in its day. Fact is your 12 volt DC car battery can sap the crap out of you also. Fortunately for the consumer smarter people than the general public prevailed and told Edison to take a hike. The country, the world went with Tesla’s system. Edison died a rich man. Tesla died in a one room flop house, He was a great genius but unlike Edison he had no interest in money.

Working with residential “electricity’” is really quite simple and easy to learn what is needed to do it yourself for most if not all home owner applications. Fortunately for over paid electricians most people are too scared to learn. I learned a lot in my public grade school in the 60s. It was part of the curriculum along with shop, use of power tools etc.

Now, the short answer to the OPs question. It is simple to test for stray voltage using an inexpensive volt meter. They can be had at walmart. The instruction book should go into detail how to do it. If not plenty of internet websites that do and plenty of Utube vids to be had.

Every barn, home owner IMO should have a $7 outlet tester. You just plug it into the outlet and the read out will tell you if the line is wired correctly and the grounding is working correctly.

Personally I don’t use tank heaters without the wire running through PVC pipe to protect it from playful horses. Here are a couple of pictures that I have posted numerous times on the subject. A VERY easy DIY.

As always to each their one on these things. Believe what you want. [ATTACH=JSON]{“alt”:“Click image for larger version Name: IMG_0710.JPG Views: 2 Size: 18.8 KB ID: 9953962”,“data-align”:“none”,“data-attachmentid”:“9953962”,“data-size”:“full”}[/ATTACH]
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This set up uses the drain plug on a rubber maid tank I also use a 90 elbow on the top of the out pipe and some more pipe to the ground. [ATTACH=JSON]{“alt”:“Click image for larger version Name: IMG_1166.JPG Views: 1 Size: 25.2 KB ID: 9953965”,“data-align”:“none”,“data-attachmentid”:“9953965”,“data-size”:“full”}[/ATTACH]
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I know someone who plugs their tank heater into a GFCI outlet and has nothing but trouble. My husband has the outlet tester and our outdoor outlet test good. That’s what my tank heater is plugged into don’t have any issue with it. Don’t know why people think the GFCI is a be all end all for plugging in tank heaters,and keeping horses safe from getting zapped by faulty tank heater.

Last thing i need is for a GFCI to be tripped and off when 20 below zero so i’ll pass on having GFCI outlets.

Had a faulty heater and horses got zapped by water trough didn’t kill either horse. So true about FB can’t believe half of what’s posted.
After the zapping issue i just moved trough to a new location for a week. Horses went right to trough to drink once in new location. After the week was up i moved it back to original spot and horses were fine with it. Only moved it about 10 feet from where it was to being with.

I think GFCI 's are important. My horse tank heater and 100 feet of cord is plugged into a GFCI circuit. The actual GFCI is in the house, while the outlet is outside. 20 below zero is not a issue since the GFCI is in the house.

The GFCI compare the current out and the current back. If there is an imbalance, they trip. The imbalance could be the current going through the faulty insulation or bad heater. If it trips, there is a problem. I would not ignore the warning like your friend seems to be doing.

Don’t have GFCI outlets so not an issue. Friend can do as she pleases not my problem.

I agree. In MN my husband ran the electric in our barns and put GFCI outlets in. The only issue I had as when I had a deicer go bad and it kept tripping the breaker. I knew immediately and could address the issue. I would rather have that then my animals going for long periods w/o water while I wonder what the issue is.

I don’t have them here but then I usually don’t need water heated except during a cold spell and then usually only during the night. I unplug things during the day.

“The GFCI compare the current out and the current back. If there is an imbalance, they trip. The imbalance could be the current going through the faulty insulation or bad heater. If it trips, there is a problem. I would not ignore the warning like your friend seems to be doing”

I usually agree with all of your comments. This one I do not. “compare the current out and the current back” That is over simplifying how they “work”. There can be a number or reasons why they trip and it does not mean there is something “dangerous” going on. I know more than the basics of residential wiring. I had the same problem that Tazycat’s friend had with them. Know lots of other farm managers who have encountered the same also.

As I said in my comment, I checked/tested everything according to the book. Read numerous discussions on the “ins & outs” of using GFCIs. Discussed with a friend who is a master electrician. He said as I said just take them out. Their really not meant/designed to be used in this type of installation/application. “They haven’t been around that long and weren’t used for decades and people weren’t being electrocuted, left and right”.

I’m not telling people what to do or not to do. Not my business. I am just saying how things work in the “real world” not the nanny nation world of “code”. There is big bucks being made out of continuously “upgrading”. Most of which is not needed/necessary. My house is over 300 years old not much in it would pass code. But it has stood the test of time and no one has gotten hurt because it doesn’t meet code. As a master plumber friend said to me when checking out how I upgraded the plumbing without spending a fortune to meet “code”. “Great job, will work just fine but it won’t pass code, lol” No worries I don’t have the code police breathing down my neck.

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Just to clarify friend had an electrician out when she had issue with GFCI outlet for her tank heater. There was nothing wrong with tank heater no current going through trough. All her wiring was good as were grounds. They had GFCI outlet taken out and put in an outdoor outlet.
She got tired of finding it tripped off and having a frozen water tank when 20 below zero. There was no reason for it to be tripping off , as electrician found when he inspected everything.

When the GFCI was on horses were drinking from trough. So pretty obvious tank heater wasn’t putting out current or shorting out.

I’m very aware of what my own horses consume for water in a day’s time. So when tank water level doesn’t go down i know to get out the voltage meter, and check trough for current going through it. The one time tank heater was shorting out horses were only 12 hours without water… pretty obvious when they go to drink after eating, and heads come flying back out of trough,there’s a problem.

No GFCI installed in my barn or house,from what i saw my friend deal with i’ll never have GFCI outlets.

Gumtree & Tazycat … We’ll just have to agree to disagree about GFCI importance and installation. Although how a GFCI works (comparing current in & out) is not an over simplification. That’s how a GFCI decides to open the circuit.

a few points for other readers.

GFCI units have a finite life span. They have an expiration date.

There are several wiring mistakes that will cause unexpected tripping. These mistakes may be located far from the GFCI.

Electrocutions HAVE decreased along with increased numbers of installed GFCI. Maybe causation maybe not but the trend is there.

Electrocution effects are dependent on the current and body path. ie. dry hands and rubber boots reduce the shock. But household power has the potential to kill a person or horse with unlucky conditions.

I suggest looking at this link to better understand GFCI

https://www.nema.org/Products/Documents/NEMA-GFCI-2012-Field-Representative-Presentation.pdf

Gumtree, thank you very much for your detailed response. I really respect your technical knowledge. I actually went out and got the GFCI and grounding pole and wire…put it in over the weekend. Put this in the category of “things I do to make me feel better”…not a whole lot of $ for my peace of mind…but I promise to try harder to understand the technicalities. I just can’t get that stupid dead horse picture out of my mind…

"Grounding pole " I take it to mean ground rod. I am concerned because a GFCI does not need or should have a ground rod. You COULD set yourself up for a fault called “grounded neutral” This will cause unexpected tripping.

Grounding the TANK is okay. if you want …

Yup hosspuller I grounded the tank, not the GFCI.

Thanks everyone!

I went out and got a GFCI plug in just in case. So my heater plugs into an all weather outdoor extension cord and then the GFCI is in the barn. I haven’t had it trip out yet and I live at the barn so I’m there at least twice a day to check.

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I, personally, was almost killed, and still have issues from stray voltage in water about 15 years ago. I worked at a fish store, and a wire from a fluorescent light came loose and dropped into the water. When I reached into the tank I was electrocuted- as soon as my finger tips touched the water I was frozen to the spot. I could not move to disconnect, nor could I hear myself screaming. It felt like hours, and I actually accepted my own death. I remember thinking, “I am going to die now- oh well, at least it won’t hurt anymore”

I was stuck there, like a statue until a co- worker (who did hear me screaming) came and disconnected me. I was in shock, had peed on myself, and still have lingering muscle pain to this day. The paramedics wanted to take me to the hospital, but I was still in shock and I was fighting them, so they let me go home. I should have gone.

I had burns on fingers and foot, and I could feel the current across my chest. The company I worked for did not change anything, and 3 months later it happened again, only that employee’s heart stopped. CPR was administered and he was revived, then they FINALLY installed a GFCI, but only in that store. :confused:

Point being, 120 will absolutely kill you, and I could certainly see a horse being frozen the instant their lips touch, just as I was.

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