Heating the Indoor Arena -- Temporary vs Permanent Ideas?

[King_s_Ransom]

Another of my apparently unending questions about building the indoor arena.

I know that I want heat in the arena. For the work that I am doing, it will be very helpful to “take the chill off” in the late fall and early spring … and may extend my use of the arena through at least the mildest parts of the winter. When it hurts to walk from the house to the barn, there’s no point trying anymore!

Adding the permanent propane heaters is the ultimate plan, but the budget is starting to run out of stretching room.

Does anyone have experience with the portable torpedo-type heaters? Could I use those on a temporary basis for a couple of seasons before ponying up for the permanent fixtures?

What are your thoughts?

PS – I do unmounted work with adult clients, so I’m not heating for riding, but rather for the comfort of non-horsey clients.

[Where_sMyWhite]

[QUOTE=King’s Ransom;8958925]
Does anyone have experience with the portable torpedo-type heaters? Could I use those on a temporary basis for a couple of seasons before ponying up for the permanent fixtures?[/QUOTE]

No immediate thoughts on using them for your purpose but they are very loud and very smelly (they burn kerosene, not propane). Yes, they heat but I’m still not fond of them and depending on the horse, they may not either

[2DogsFarm]

Agree with WMW: smelly, noisy & they foul the air.
I used to show in a barn that used these for indoor shows in Winter & inevitably came home with what felt like symptoms of a head cold: stuffy nose, cough - that cleared up once I was not breathing their air.

Look into Buddy Heaters - they do burn propane & are not at all noisy.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mr-Heater-Big-Buddy-Portable-Heater-Liquid-Propane-Dual-Heating-System-F274800/4382667?action=product_interest&action_type=title&beacon_version=1.0.2&bucket_id=irsbucketdefault&client_guid=3336325c-4a9f-410d-8a06-59401f6d986d&config_id=106&customer_id_enc&findingMethod=p13n&guid=3336325c-4a9f-410d-8a06-59401f6d986d&item_id=4382667&parent_anchor_item_id=16622306&parent_item_id=16622306&placement_id=irs-106-t1&reporter=recommendations&source=new_site&strategy=PWVUB&visitor_id=PhgbXo79C5rJiw7I6M5mSA#about-item

[Guilherme]

How big an indoor? What’s the insulation status? How warm to you want it? How will you handle ventilation (i.e., air exchange so that you don’t create a stagnant box of heater air)?. How will you handle circulation of air (same concern as above)? What will do for dust control?

This is generally a very “high dollar” project in both creation and operation.

I’d contact a commercial heat/air contractor and get a quote from them on how to do it right. Then decide if that’s good with you or you have to do in “non-right” to stay within budget.

G.

[AKB]

Playland Farm in Union Bridge, MD has a heated barn. The attached indoor seems to stay warm, too. They have some sort of a wood stove that heats the floor. I don’t know the details, but have been there in very cold weather when the barn was a pleasant 35-40 degrees.

[enjoytheride]

I have ridden at a barn that heats their indoor and most of the stabling area with a wood burning stove thing outside. It’s an enormous arena (the riding area is 100 X 200 and that doesn’t include the round pen area, viewing area, horse tie area, or the stabling) and it gets into the 50s in the winter.

Here is a picture of the heater

http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/2015/03/obstacles.html

[poltroon]

If you are just trying to keep a few spectators warm, I wonder if the patio type heaters for restaurants might work best for you. Obviously, that only works if they’re staying in one area and not interacting with horses.

[King_s_Ransom]

I thought about the external wood furnace – my BIL and SIL have one to heat their house. But, DH and I are getting up there in years and keeping a wood furnace going isn’t in the cards for us. As I recall, I think my BIL recently added a propane furnace as he and I are about the same age! LOL

A friend of mine has the hanging propane heaters up in the corners of her indoor, I will ask her about them and the cost. Also, we are having to run electric from the house service panel (a LONG run), so now I’m wondering if it might be economical to run 220v out there and heat with electric. Sort of the “in for a penny, in for a pound” concept. Previously, we had thought we could pull 100 amps by tying into the barn, but no dice. We’re going to have to go back to the source.

Thanks, I appreciate all the input.

The arena will 60 x 120 and the roof will be insulated during construction. We plan to come back with the spray-on insulation for the walls later.

The adults are interacting with the horses, otherwise the patio heater concept is a good one.

[airhorse]

No way you will heat it with electric. It takes 800,000 BTUs to heat our arena that is 70 X 170. Scaled down to your size, that is 146,000 watts or 1220 amps. So just add 6, 200 amp panels and you are good to go. The electric company will send you gifts of appreciation forever.

Look into infrared radiant tubes vs the hanging “hot air” heaters, you end up heating objects, not the air.

Get lots of quotes, as ours varied by factors of up to 3.

[OTTB2]

There are torpedo heats that work off propane… We had one in our garage but I never really remembering it smelling that bad.

[King_s_Ransom]

Ha ha – sounds like electric is out!

Yes, there are torpedo heaters that work off propane, I’ve been looking at them most of the day.

However, I don’t think I will save THAT much $$ over having a relatively simple installation of a ceiling-mount propane heater. My friend has two of them, 350,000 btus each. She says she could have gotten by with just one. Though her barn is better insulated, it is much larger than mine. The one I’m looking at does not even require venting. A propane tank, gas line to the unit, electric outlet and it looks like you’re in business.

It is more than the torpedo heater, but I think it’s do-able.

Thanks!

[csaper58]

[QUOTE=King’s Ransom;8959462]
I thought about the external wood furnace – my BIL and SIL have one to heat their house. But, DH and I are getting up there in years and keeping a wood furnace going isn’t in the cards for us. As I recall, I think my BIL recently added a propane furnace as he and I are about the same age! LOL

A friend of mine has the hanging propane heaters up in the corners of her indoor, I will ask her about them and the cost. Also, we are having to run electric from the house service panel (a LONG run), so now I’m wondering if it might be economical to run 220v out there and heat with electric. Sort of the “in for a penny, in for a pound” concept. Previously, we had thought we could pull 100 amps by tying into the barn, but no dice. We’re going to have to go back to the source.

Thanks, I appreciate all the input.

The arena will 60 x 120 and the roof will be insulated during construction. We plan to come back with the spray-on insulation for the walls later.

The adults are interacting with the horses, otherwise the patio heater concept is a good one.[/QUOTE]

Could that type of furnace be converted to propane? Then the noise won’t be such a factor.

[shakeytails]

I always thought that an outdoor wood furnace fueled by round bales would be an awesome heat source. Heat generated by composting manure is an interesting idea too. Not helpful, I know…

[King_s_Ransom]

Solar panels would be a cool option, too.

Perhaps someday when I win the lottery, I will make that installation!

[Jim_in_PA]

Heating the air directly in such a large space is pretty difficult and inefficient unless the walls and ceiling is well insulated and all doors seal up nicely. Overhead radiant is often a better choice for large spaces like this since it warms “you” and the physical aspects of the building (including footing) which ultimately does warm the air. Gas is what generally powers these long tube-like heating systems and they work nicely. You’ll see these in warehouse operations and other large spaces pretty frequently. Unfortunately, there’s not much in the way of “temporary” for this kind of thing.

I personally wouldn’t use a “bullet” type jet-engine heater anywhere near a barn with livestock. As already mentioned, the fumes can be bad and the noise level is not going to be appreciated by humans or horses.

[HungarianHippo]

[QUOTE=King’s Ransom;8959976]
Solar panels would be a cool option, too.

Perhaps someday when I win the lottery, I will make that installation![/QUOTE]

Look at the incentives currently available-- I truly believe a solar installation will probably have a very good payoff given how much it’s going to cost you to heat that thing. If you could afford adding a car payment to your budget, you can probably swing solar. Do pay attention to the “net metering” policy of your utility. This site is a good resource to look up applicable incentives and utility policies: www.dsireusa.org

PM me if you want to discuss in more detail, I’ve been working in renewable energy field for 15 yrs

[King_s_Ransom]

HH – What do you think of this installation I just found on Google?

http://www.choiceenergy.org/Solar.Air.Eagle.Mount.htm

[HungarianHippo]

Oppps sorry, can’t advise on passive solar. That install looks pretty neat but my experience is solar PV and wind turbines (and biomass but you don’t want to load a furnace so cross that off ).

[clanter]

I read through some of the info… here is a continuing link that provides additional cost and construction details

http://builditsolar.com/Projects/SpaceHeating/solar_barn_project.htm

[SophieFry]

For horses, the infrared heater Ballu Horse is ideal. Metal case, thermostat. Safe for animals and people. Do not have ultraviolet radiation. There are no any fumes and odors. Decorative protective grille, a reflector made of heat-resistant stainless steel. BUT the price is pretty high.

In advance, as a specialist in the heat of heating of the premises I can say that infrared heaters though convenient, but in addition to the pluses, they have minuses.
Pluses:

• Saving electricity with an infrared heater is very significant. If an ordinary heater consumes thousands of watts, then, in this case, the bill will go to hundreds.

• The speed of heating the arena is very high, infrared radiation does not heat the air, but walls, furniture, etc., which then return heat to space. Also to the pluses of this type of heating is the fire safety, the fact that they do not burn oxygen in the room and do not dry the air.

And about difficulties and cons:

• The infrared heater heats only the bodies or surfaces that fall into the zone of its action, but the air, respectively, remains cold. That is, a person (a horse) warming up under such a radiator, decides to go to a zone where it doesn`t reach - hypothermia, and further from immunity depends - falls ill, does not fall ill.

• To warm a horse (arena) in the winter = constantly to prevent a horse acclimatizing to walks on a frosty street = to cause illness.

And it is quite another matter - why IR-heaters are really good! - this is a local healing warm-up of some kind of injury.
According to a veterinarian’s recipe, not when it’s cold to the owners.

I understand - a lot of text, but I’m almost done.
So from the pros - quite cheap and does not require much energy.
From the minuses - or normally hang a lot of heaters that would not have been “cold” zones, or heap the arena in another way and heat it with non-infrared heaters.
Here are some cheap options to make your visitor feel comfortable https://www.bestadvisers.co.uk/infrared-heaters (not for horses!), but, as I said,If you want heat all area properly without harm to animals better give a look to Ballu.