i’ve also had really good results with a pour-in. my farrier calls it CSS but i imagine it’s similar to the Equi-Pak stuff you can get. it really helped support the structures of the hoof and allows the heels to widen as well as the sole to thicken, ime.
ETA: i’ve used this stuff on both my barefoot gelding and my mare who is now transitioning to barefoot after having been in shoes for the majority of her life (she’s 9). she is the main reason that i hate wedges.
Have you tried anything besides the shoeing changes? Osphos, etc?
I just received and email from my trimmer with his new article on navicular. You might find it interesting. Actually, there are two articles. I highly recommend you read these before accepting the diagnosis.
http://enlightenedequine.com/2016/03/09/navicular-disease-part-1-background/
http://enlightenedequine.com/2016/06/10/navicular-disease-part-2-diagnosis/
Oh, just wanted to say a neighbor of mine uses osphos on her horse who was lame from navicular both unshod and with shoes. She can now go on light trail rides with him. I was pretty amazed at the results.
[QUOTE=Chimera;8697796]
I’ve tried just about every type of shoe on my mare with navicular, have had her trimmed by a good barefoot trimmer, and for many years she was on bute daily just to be pasture sound. We put her in the easyshoe performance earlier this year, and she is the most comfortable she has been for a while. Not fantastic, but pasture sound without bute. I think the main advantage is that they are pretty supportive of the heel area but can be really set back to improve breakover. Plus you can add any sort of packing or pour in pad you want.[/QUOTE]
I was looking at easy shoes online the other day - it looks like they are made of some sort of plastic material. How do they hold nails? Are they embedded with metal reinforcements in the nail hold areas? Looks interesting
[QUOTE=crimsonsky;8698145]
i’ve also had really good results with a pour-in. my farrier calls it CSS but i imagine it’s similar to the Equi-Pak stuff you can get. it really helped support the structures of the hoof and allows the heels to widen as well as the sole to thicken, ime.
ETA: i’ve used this stuff on both my barefoot gelding and my mare who is now transitioning to barefoot after having been in shoes for the majority of her life (she’s 9). she is the main reason that i hate wedges.[/QUOTE]
I hear a lot of folks who don’t like wedges - is it because they cause issues with the heels? I have read so much in the last few days my mind is jumbled with info. I believe I read that wedged shoes don’t allow the heels to correct/put too much pressure on. Anyway, would love to hear more about the issues with wedge shoes (since that is currently what my horse has nailed to his fronts…)
[QUOTE=crimsonsky;8698145]
i’ve also had really good results with a pour-in. my farrier calls it CSS but i imagine it’s similar to the Equi-Pak stuff you can get. it really helped support the structures of the hoof and allows the heels to widen as well as the sole to thicken, ime.
ETA: i’ve used this stuff on both my barefoot gelding and my mare who is now transitioning to barefoot after having been in shoes for the majority of her life (she’s 9). she is the main reason that i hate wedges.[/QUOTE]
I hear a lot of folks who don’t like wedges - is it because they cause issues with the heels? I have read so much in the last few days my mind is jumbled with info. I believe I read that wedged shoes don’t allow the heels to correct/put too much pressure on. Anyway, would love to hear more about the issues with wedge shoes (since that is currently what my horse has nailed to his fronts…)
Regardless of whether you tack on a shoe, the underrun heels and overly long toes need to be fixed. This needs to be done over several trims.
I am also not generally a fan of wedges, but everything has its place short term.
[QUOTE=Tiffani B;8698244]
Have you tried anything besides the shoeing changes? Osphos, etc?[/QUOTE]
Hi Tiffani, not yet. He was diagnosed about 14 days ago, and reshod with the wedges about 9 days ago. My vet has offered a number of other treatments, but for now I’m waiting to hear back from another vet for a second opinion before I take the next step. My first priority is to get him on a good shoeing plan and make any changes to his environment that he needs. But I am considering one of these other treatments - here are my thoughts at the moment. Please feel free to weight in!
–Navicular bursa injections - seems like more of a last resort/I don’t like the risk involved in piercing he tendon
–Coffin Joint injections - (cortisone/HA/antibiotic) I would consider trying this. It seems fairly low risk (other than infection) and would at least offer some comfort and calm inflammation while he heals. However, I do think cortisone should be used carefully–as few times as possible/not frequently.
–Tildren - this would also be a last resort/run out of options treatment as the studies don’t seem that good for the expense
–Osphos - I would try this before Tildren, as it less expensive and studies seem better than Tildren, but after other treatments such as coffin joint injections or shockwave
–Shockwave - I’m open to trying this. Seems to have healing potential with little risk.
[QUOTE=Ganesha;8698548]
I hear a lot of folks who don’t like wedges - is it because they cause issues with the heels? I have read so much in the last few days my mind is jumbled with info. I believe I read that wedged shoes don’t allow the heels to correct/put too much pressure on. Anyway, would love to hear more about the issues with wedge shoes (since that is currently what my horse has nailed to his fronts…)[/QUOTE]
in my experience, yes. i also have seen where the wedges end up making the foot grow more forward instead of down, totally defeating the purpose.
i bought my mare back in 2014 as a rehab project. she had been off and on lame for however long and was sold as “undetermined soundness issues”. with many vet visits and a great farrier, she has been sound for the past year. among the things tried were wedges (which is what she came with - aluminum wedges with clips), natural balance shoes, CSS (pour-in composite stuff) and now we are attempting to go barefoot. along with this she has had some joint injections (P2/P3 in both the LF and RH) which made a big difference along with monthly doses of adequan (after having done the loading/treatment dose).
with that being said, a few months back we went back to a wedge pad on the low RF as it was more cost effective than the CSS. this was a mistake. any progress made up til this point was lost. so disheartening. i am now essentially starting over BUT i’ve seen more improvement in her feet in the last 5 weeks being barefoot than the entire time in the wedges. her feet did improve with the CSS and i wouldn’t hesitate to use it again - definitely provides protection and support to the bottom of the hoof and the internal structures.
[QUOTE=imaginique;8698248]
I just received and email from my trimmer with his new article on navicular. You might find it interesting. Actually, there are two articles. I highly recommend you read these before accepting the diagnosis.
http://enlightenedequine.com/2016/03/09/navicular-disease-part-1-background/
http://enlightenedequine.com/2016/06/10/navicular-disease-part-2-diagnosis/[/QUOTE]
Perhaps your trimmer could weigh in with an explanation of how millions of horses go their entire lives landing heel first and never develop navicular disease.
These blogs, while they may contain some valid information, smell of pseudoscience.
I will be the voice of dissent – my navicular/ringbone/sidebone horse cannot be sound barefoot (with a very experienced Certified Journeyman farrier doing the trims who actually SUGGESTED we try to transition him to barefoot a few times to save money since he is retired). but it doesn’t work for my horse. He needs round shoes and pads and he’s happy. though he’s not on a wedge right now.
And there’s no need to try to convince me of the benefits of barefoot, I have several barefoot horses and believe me, I would LOVE to be able to make this horse work barefoot since I spend a ridiculous amount shoeing a 24 year old retiree. I just can’t bear to watch him hobble around when he’s fine with the shoes.
Barefoot he was on bute every day and lost weight because he was in pain. he is a real wimp, though, and prefers to be expensive.
My advice is to get the best farrier in your area, one that will insist on looking at the horse’s radiographs, and try things until your horse looks good. I’ve had a couple of navicular horses and they all went in something different. And when that stopped working we tried other things.
Your horse might very well be best off barefoot. Or with shoes. Or with wedges. Or with pads. Or both. it takes time to figure out but don’t stop until he’s happy in his work. Your farrier should be able to look at the horse move and give you a lot of guidance.
[QUOTE=LarkspurCO;8698824]
Perhaps your trimmer could weigh in with an explanation of how millions of horses go their entire lives landing heel first and never develop navicular disease.
These blogs, while they may contain some valid information, smell of pseudoscience.[/QUOTE]
You might want to go to his web site and check out his credentials. He is a mechanical engineer and teaches at Ohio State–engineering and hoof trimming. No pseudo science involved.
[QUOTE=imaginique;8698948]
You might want to go to his web site and check out his credentials. He is a mechanical engineer and teaches at Ohio State–engineering and hoof trimming. No pseudo science involved.[/QUOTE]
I don’t care what his credentials are. He provides no scientific evidence proving that heel-first landing causes navicular. Only speculation.
Maybe you could point out where that is? In the cat pictures?
http://enlightenedequine.com/2013/11/27/the-myth-of-the-heel-first-landing-part-1/
Just throwing these articles out there in case OP is interested. Obviously you are not and you are entitled to your opinion.
[QUOTE=Ganesha;8697731]
I would love to see the picture if you can find it. I did email Rood and Riddle with images and case history tonight and am waiting to hear their opinion.[/QUOTE]
This is not as dramatic on screen as I recalled but you can get an idea of how the hoof changed from the start to the end of this shoeing cycle. The heel grew up:
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i213/hfournier/Tanager/hooves/TanagerDec1-Feb1-09-2.jpg
I recently took over the farrier work on a horse that had been shod in wedges for heel pain. When I pulled the shoes off, and trimmed last fall, I told the owner that I suspected that the horse’s digital cushions in both front feet were compromised from lack of frog support, that the heels were contracted and under-run, and raising the heels to improve the angle wasn’t helping at all. Fast forward to spring, 5 months out of shoes, both the front hooves have stronger frogs, the heels aren’t as contracted, the feet are more under the front legs, aren’t looking run forward anymore. I think a lot of people mistake the run forward hoof capsule as negative palmar, instead of seeing flared, run forward toes.
[QUOTE=LarkspurCO;8699367]
This is not as dramatic on screen as I recalled but you can get an idea of how the hoof changed from the start to the end of this shoeing cycle. The heel grew up:
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i213/hfournier/Tanager/hooves/TanagerDec1-Feb1-09-2.jpg[/QUOTE]
That’s very encouraging to see - thanks for posting the pic!
[QUOTE=LarkspurCO;8699367]
This is not as dramatic on screen as I recalled but you can get an idea of how the hoof changed from the start to the end of this shoeing cycle. The heel grew up:
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i213/hfournier/Tanager/hooves/TanagerDec1-Feb1-09-2.jpg[/QUOTE]
That looks like a great improvement - I hope I can get that degree of change with my horse’s feet
Thanks everyone who has responded to this thread with pics, stories, articles, etc. I feel like things are suspended til I get that 2nd opinion (should be Monday or Tuesday). The info helps but so does the community and support.
Spent the day walking, hand grazing, brushing and just hanging out with him. He loved the attention and I accidentally discovered he Loves having his coronary bands massaged. I was towell drying his heels and pasterns and noticed he made googoo eyes and sighed when I pushed gently down along the tops of his coronet. By the time I was done with all four feet he was blissed out and half awake.
I’ll post what I hear from the vet.
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