I am going to have a beer, perhaps that will help.
There once was a BB troll.
Who said the Feds made PlemmOns roll.
When called into question,
Goldy gave us indigestion,
By crawling back into his hole.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by goldy:
Yes he is. If they have their way they will use the Patriot ACt to put him back! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
People think that it is only being used to combat terrorism. Laffs on them 
Don’t forget, while people were sleeping, Hilter was elected 
yoohooo jetsmom i see that your lerking!
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>What I don’t understand is this - are the “powers-that-be” supposedly involved in the murder? Or are they just covering the fact that they were inept at solving it? Or are/were they simply using Helen’s murder as a way to “take out” other people that they were too inept to catch directly (using Helen’s murder to set them up)? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> HUMMMMMM!!!
ok snowbird settle down ,andrew is way too young for you! 
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>you’ll be charging us for mounting assistance! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
EEEEEEEEEEUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU YUCK, YUCK, YUCK…What a horrible thought!
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by goldy:
I live my life with integrity and this Joe Plemmens arrest record goes way beyond what most people know … I probably know more about the recent Helen Brach case than anyone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Perhaps you know a lot but you don’t know how to spell Joe’s name. For the record it is spelled <span class=“ev_code_RED”>PlemmOns</span>
Goldy - It is no secret that the Feds often use very um, er, creative methods to catch and convict very bad people who they have been unable to get enough evidence on otherwise. Mobsters who have killed many, put away on tax evasion. Serial killers and rapists on lesser charges. Look at the guy they originally arrested for the Atlanta Olympic Park bombing - they almost completely ruined his life with suspisions and inuendo.
What you may find is that the American people don’t mind these things so much - as long as the Feds get rid of the really bad people. However, few people will accept the fact there can be real people who suffer the colateral damage. Like your father. No, your father shouldn’t suffer decades of inference that he is a murderer or a dirty cop if he is/was not. Unfortunately it is very difficult to prove innocence - which is why our laws say someone must be proven guilty to be convicted and jailed.
You are officially in the “Twilight Zone” area of the great American justice system. There are people who go free even though we “know” they are guilty. Some that are “proven” guilty go free years later as things like DNA testing exonerate them. And some simply live with the cloud of suspision for the rest of their lives.
I would guess that the Feds would have no problem exonerating your father - unless it leads to the exoneration of people they really need to stay behind bars.
This is where it gets tricky. Will most people believe that your father’s reputation is worth saving if, by doing so, it exonerates the real “bad guys” in all this. Or will most people believe that the sacrifice of one man’s reputation is worth getting those guys put away? No, it isn’t fair. But having a justice system bound by “higher rules” and “human rights” create a system that hampers their ability to do whatever is necessary to catch those who abilde by no rules whatsoever.
Goldy, you do need to be careful - you are on the “razor’s edge” of America’s sense of justice and “reasonable” sacrifice. History is full of people who have been scarified for the “greater good” under the philosophies of justice like “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few”.
Goldy - I understand completely your need to fight like Hell for your father’s reputation. I would do the same in your shoes. I just want you to see this from the outside a little and realize that this whole thing may not be so popular in the end. I suspect that there is more to all this than any of us might realize. If you truly suceed in unraveling all this - or even most of it - it may be uglier and bigger than you realize.
It seems to me that the timeframes, the “no body” issue and Helen’s “rights” of privacy (in her unexplained absense) were used (or simply happened) to hamper a reasonable and timely investigation. It is possible that the Feds simply made the best of a very bad situation in the end to “get” those they couldn’t get otherwise. A classic case of “the ends justifying the means”. And simply considered your father’s reputation as “collateral damage”.
Just an interesting note: John Locke’s political philosophy (and justification for the existance of governement), upon which our Constitution is based, does place the needs of the group above the needs/rights of the individual. However it also goes on to say that the individual has every justification to fight like hell (paraphrasing here of course) for his individual rights and protection.
This is the paradox of the American system. Unfortunately, there are no better systems for balancing individual rights with the rights of the rest of the population. Will the truth set us free? I guess we’ll find out just who will be set free by the truth - if it can still be found at this point.
My hope for you and your father, Goldy, is that the timing and distance issues that caused such problems in the first place, will turn and help you now. Hopefully enough time and distance have occured to allow the truth to come out with minimal negative impact.
Crimany - what a mess. Or, as Greta Garbo said, “Hang on folks, it’s gonna be a bumpy night.”
SCFarm
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>bwf
Working Hunter
Posted Sep. 11, 2005 01:14 PM
Goldy, I am having a hard time with all this.
Could you answer a few questions for me.
Did your father get arrested for this crime? Did he go to jail?
What was the connection between some of these bad people? Did he work for them, was he friends etc? I have not been able to understand some of this from your posts.
Thanks </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No he has not been arrested, no he has never been in jail. He was friendly with some while he was jumping horses and shoeing horses. He did shoe some of these peoples horses many years ago. He has no criminal record! If these liars get what they are after he would be convicted of killing Helen Brach and be sentenced to life or put in the electric chair!
Here is the story Goldy was referring to when he spoke of the ex-cop who had been framed by two FBI agents.
Jury awards $6.6 million to man ‘framed’ by FBI
‘It’s a long, long way from Death Row.’
By Matt O’Connor; Chicago Tribune staff reporter
January 24, 2005
A federal jury today awarded nearly $6.6 million in damages to former Chicago police Officer Steven Manning, finding two veteran FBI agents framed him for a Cook County murder that put him on Death Row.
The jury also held that one of the FBI agents also framed Manning in a Missouri kidnapping case. Manning spent 14 years in prison before both convictions were overturned and the prosecutions were dropped.
The damages could go even higher. U.S. District Judge Matthew Kennelly, who presided over the six-week trial, is yet to rule on whether the United States shares responsibility with the two agents for malicious prosecutions.
"It’s a long, long way from Death Row to complete vindication,’’ Manning said after the verdict.
The jury deliberated for 6½ days before finding FBI Special Agents Robert Buchan and Gary Miller liable for Manning’s wrongful conviction in the 1990 murder of trucking firm owner James Pellegrino. Buchan was also found liable in the Missouri kidnapping case.
The jury also found the two agents had intentionally inflicted emotional distress.
Manning claimed in his civil suit that the agents had a grudge against him and framed him for the crimes. The charges surfaced after Manning, who had been an informant for the FBI, filed a civil harassment suit over his treatment by the agents when he tried to stop working in that role, said his attorney, Jon Loevy.
“It’s a very unusual thing that the jury would find FBI agents framed somebody not just once but twice for capital crimes,” Loevy told reporters outside the downtown Chicago courtroom where jurors returned their decision.
Federal officials this afternoon issued a statement saying they "respect the jury system, the work of this jury and its verdict.’’ But they said they remained "confident that the agents who were sued did not engage in any misconduct in this matter.’’
U.S. Atty. Patrick J. Fitzgerald and Richard K. Ruminski, acting special agent in charge of the Chicago office of the FBI, said they would have no further comment.
Both Miller and Buchan remain with the bureau, according to FBI spokeswoman Cynthia Yates.
In closing arguments Jan. 11, a federal prosecutor lauded both Buchan and Miller as dedicated, law-abiding FBI agents.
In a fateful decision, the FBI used a notorious informant named Tommy Dye to try to elicit evidence about the Pellegrino murder while Dye and Manning were incarcerated in Cook County Jail.
Dye asserted he had captured a confession by Manning on a hidden recorder, but when nothing was audible, he claimed that the confession came during a two-second inaudible portion of the recording.
He claimed Manning had grabbed him by the arm, bent him over, put a finger to his head as if it was a gun and said, “This is how I killed Pellegrino.”
A Tribune investigation in November 1999 examined Manning’s conviction as well as prosecutors’ use of jailhouse informants and found both were deeply flawed.
Manning was taken off Death Row in 2000 and finally freed from prison in February 2004. His civil suit had sought damages of more than $20 million.
I find it very interesting that 10 people were involed a 28 years later some person comes forward who is the devil very dark soul, who has a pattern of lieing all the time!!!
buryinghill1 - Don’t forget that direct questions are not answered. We’re still trying to get the questions on page one answered and now we’re on page 10, two days later!
Cindeye - It’s now after 12:00 PST, so go at it, but I think that Andrew beat you to the bar.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by goldy:
Matlick and possibly someone else did it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, no you have your crime shows confused MatlOck was the good-guy in the courtroom. His only crime - and most certainly guilty as charged - was releasing this music album 
It is reported that Joe has gone by 3 or 4 alias’s. If Joe Plemmons is a changed man as he has said, Then please tell me why he continues to lie in current interviews and probably to alot of his current victims to be?
I have to agree with Snowbird about most aspects of the Patriot Act. People worry about loss of privacy. I’m afraid to say that the personal information that everyone is concerned about such as medical recods, bank information, etc, was already obtainable. The only way to keep a secret is by not telling anyone or writing it down. This has been true for years.
and in case you need a refresher course 
on Wally Holly, here is a summary of his 1999 appeal of his conviction for insurance fraud.
Bleehhhhhh
???
Don’t worry goldy, we’re all rushing around it’s end of the season for everyone. Summer is over and we have to batten down for the winter.
You haven’t posted anything that was new that we haven’t seen to get excited about.But, don’t let Radiotalk get to you, it’s not that we don’t care anymore.
